A Questionable "What If"

[Black Knight]

Getting back to the OP's opening.

On 'What-ifs'

1. let the imagination run

2, just be careful that others might think its real. I have several What-ifs that people think are real, They are not the 'general public' but people who should know better

 

example of 1. The USAAC got an early Hurricane I for testing

 

examples of 2. Both of these people thought were real

 

 

 

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, Bedders said:

Please mods close this down

 

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

 

Do you want this whole political/historical discussion closed down, as it's gone on too frikkin' long, along with Lewis95's proposed build, or just the political/historical stuff?

 

I want to see Lewis95's kit get built. The other 85% of this topic can be eliminated.

 

 

 

Chris

Why should the post be closed or content eliminated?

If the discussion has broken the forum rules, then it should be up to the moderators to decide on it. I personally feel that the discussion has not broken the rules and has been very polite, but if the moderators feel differently, fair enough.

If the various inevitable off-topic comments (for which I bear my share of responsibility) are the problem, then shouldn't be the OP to decide if it's worth continuing or not? 

[Black Knight]

To Lewis95 I ask

1. is it ideas on the scheme markings or colours you are wanting?  or

2. whether you should do the scheme at all?

 

On 1 I can add nowt

On 2 I'd say if you are unsure about it, don't do it.  My Chippie scheme is actually politically sensitive here in N.I. I was shy of doing it for a couple of years then I decided 'stuff them all. its my model and my idea, I'm going to build it'. It does draw some attention at shows though and generates discussion

[dogsbody]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Why should the post be closed or content eliminated?

If the discussion has broken the forum rules, then it should be up to the moderators to decide on it. I personally feel that the discussion has not broken the rules and has been very polite, but if the moderators feel differently, fair enough.

If the various inevitable off-topic comments (for which I bear my share of responsibility) are the problem, then shouldn't be the OP to decide if it's worth continuing or not? 

 

I don't want anything deleted. It's just that, in my small opinion, the discussion about the marking and all the other historics has gone on too long and has drifted off-topic. 

 

Let's see some kit building and painting!

 

 

 

Chris

[Work In Progress]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Why should the post be closed or content eliminated?

If the discussion has broken the forum rules, then it should be up to the moderators to decide on it. I personally feel that the discussion has not broken the rules and has been very polite, but if the moderators feel differently, fair enough.

If the various inevitable off-topic comments (for which I bear my share of responsibility) are the problem, then shouldn't be the OP to decide if it's worth continuing or not? 

It might be better served in the correct forum

[Icedtea]

On 5/16/2020 at 4:11 AM, alt-92 said:

Funny how this almost never comes up with WWII Japanese or Soviet subjects.

Oh I dunno, I still see questions and comments on other forums about the hinomaru being banned when a simple google w ill show its still the Japanese national symbol. As to the red star..these days its the red/yellow star of the PRC although they have wised u and generally even the "made in china" bit is in very fine print down the back somewhere.

BTW I'm in Australia so the perspective is a bit different.

[Britman]

Apologies to Lewis. Please build that model and let us see the results. We are a diverse group of modellers and that should be enough to keep us all engaged. 

 

Keith

[Deanflyer]

On 15 May 2020 at 7:30 PM, Work In Progress said:

The only time I criticise a what-if idea is if someone builds something that offends the laws of physics*, and I'm not even that cross then.

 

*for example a well known 25-ton twin-jet bomber converted to tailwheel configuration and re-engined with a pair of Merlins off a Mosquito with less than half the max take-off weight. You could have taxied it around I suppose, and you could even have dragged it round a circuit unloaded, providing it didn't have an engine failure, but fly it as a warplane? nope...

No such model was ever built.

 

As for the opening poster's query - I'd say go for it. The whole idea of what-ifs is that they're fiction, and if people get offended by fiction then they're opinion isn't worth listening to anyway. 

 

Dean

[JohnT]

13 hours ago, Black Knight said:My Chippie scheme is actually politically sensitive here in N.I. I was shy of doing it for a couple of years then I decided 'stuff them all. its my model and my idea, I'm going to build it'. It does draw some attention at shows though and generates discussion

Ah so that’s what it is. Love the Hurricane closely followed by the Harrier. Actually not so off the wall now you think about it. 

On the PC issue generally is it still ok to do explicit girlies on fuselages in this #metoo period?  I have decals that are rather graphic for a F105 Thud in the area of the refuelling receptacle which I have debated on after having second thoughts. I have bought alternative decals and the debate still goes on in my head. 
 

on the original question I’d say go ahead. The laws against use of certain political symbols are to prevent their use by self styled supporters today and were not really intended to adversely affect historical portrayals  

[Antti_K]

2 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Ah so that’s what it is. Love the Hurricane closely followed by the Harrier. Actually not so off the wall now you think about it. 

On the PC issue generally is it still ok to do explicit girlies on fuselages in this #metoo period?  I have decals that are rather graphic for a F105 Thud in the area of the refuelling receptacle which I have debated on after having second thoughts. I have bought alternative decals and the debate still goes on in my head. 
 

on the original question I’d say go ahead. The laws against use of certain political symbols are to prevent their use by self styled supporters today and were not really intended to adversely affect historical portrayals  

Excellent points there John.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Truro Model Builder]

In the end it's all about making a blinkin' model. We all have subjects we will not want to build for various reasons. I, for example, think the Saudi Tornado camouflage is just gorgeous, but I have a dim view of the way things happen in Saudi Arabia and as a resulting have never wanted to build one. However, now I have a set of markings for the TSP upgrade airframes with British roundels and markings then we're on.

 

Building a Luftwaffe aircraft with a swastika on the tail as part of a collection of different aircraft from history does not make you a Nazi. Nor does building a Soviet jet with red stars on the wings make you a communist. Building a couple of hundred Luftwaffe aircraft with swastikas and nothing else might, however, raise an eyebrow.

[iainpeden]

I love that Harrier.

 

 

[alt-92]

We were doing so well... let's not derail this with knee-jerk comments, ok?

[qn30jEkPz7]

 

3 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

We were doing so well... let's not derail this with knee-jerk comments, ok?

Not doing that well. A whole 4 pages in before it turned antisemitic 

[iainpeden]

Sorry - it was knee jerk and clumsy - but I do know people who refuse to buy Israeli oranges.

[Julien]

Come on guys get it back on track and no nastiness please. 

[JohnT]

1 hour ago, Truro Model Builder said:

 Building a couple of hundred Luftwaffe aircraft with swastikas and nothing else might, however, raise an eyebrow.

Building a couple of hundred of anything might raise more than Mrs T’s eyebrow 

[elger]

There's a post here on page 4 containing actual antisemitism which I sincerely hope will be removed soon.

[Mike]

57 minutes ago, elger said:

There's a post here on page 4 containing actual antisemitism which I sincerely hope will be removed soon.

It has.  Julien has already asked you once to keep things on the straight-and-narrow, and any diversion from the actual topic in-hand will result in a closure of the topic.  I hope that's totally clear.

[iainpeden]

My abject apologies if I offended anybody.

This is the apology I sent to Elger.

 

Elger

At no point did I intend to offend anybody with my post and it was certainly not meant to be anti-semitic. My original point was that being so-PC as to try to rewrite history was actually missing the point of studying history.

My apologies to anybody offended.

Iain

 

My comments were poorly thought through.

 

[iainpeden]

Elger has kindly let me know it wasn't my post - but repeated apologies to any body who found my comment unnecessary.

[Welkin]

Personally I don't understand "What Ifs" at all.

There are more aircraft and kits out there than I am ever going to have the time, money and energy to build.

Not to mention that ones that I would love to have but which have never been kitted and probably never will be!

[Black Knight]

Several answers to that.

1. I find it can break the mojo block

2. its a break from doing 'serious' modelling, subjects in near-perfect colours of camouflage

3. it can use up old kits. That Harrier of mine was one of the old Airfix GR3 kits. Why waste doing it as an RAF one when I have the newer kit in the stash. Currently I'm working on some old Airfix Gnat T.1s. There are only so many Red Arrows Gnats you can build. I have 3 being done as Whifs.

[ben_m]

Definitely agree wifs can get mojo back- you can't obsess over getting the details right, as it didn't exist at all, so things move forward faster. Same for doing sci-fi or fantasy modelling.

[Toryu]

Regarding the meaningfulness of WHIFs I would agree with both positions. A WHIF can release extra creativity and they are often fun to watch, although I don't build them myself. To replicate something that actually existed gives me stronger motivation because I immerse myself in the history, personnel and operational situation of my models. A WWII (or earlier) model is always a WHIF to some extend, isn't it? We can never be sure it looked exactly like this, and some educated guess is part of the building process.