Hawker Horsley, Vacform Tutorial

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Martian is doing a splendid job here with this tutorial, a good deed that deserves high praise.

As a vac builder myself (I have posted between 20 and 30 vac builds here at BM, if memory serves) I truly appreciate and support his efforts to demystify the subject and dissipate the dark aura that seems to surround it.

Perhaps a grain of sand could be added here.

I saw several times mentioned in this thread the need to start simple, to which I completely agree.

Of all those vac threads I posted here, this is perhaps the simplest. Here is a link to the RFI, which has, in the first post -in turn- the link to the WIP.

It is an Execuform vac kit, presented as a bag of very simple contents, absolutely plain shapes, and no frills at all. It possesses just the bare volumes, a very forgiving thick plastic, and the old releases came with white metal accessories.

This is the best definition of a white canvas kit you will ever find. No panel lines, no details, no decals. But these kits are accompanied with very good plans, where all the details you may like (or not) to add are described.

A kit with 6 or 8 parts, molded in sturdy plastic, may not end up being a contest winner, but it surely is a good practice kit (seen as a generic type, not just this specific kit).

Hope this may help someone:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235043963-timm-n2t-1-in-civil-galore-modifed-execuform-vacuformed-172nd-kit/

Cheers

 

Vac-a-Go-Go

 

 

 

[tomprobert]

Really enjoying this, Martian. 
 

As a man who loves a vac

myself, it’s pleasing to see you revealing the dark arts of making these hugely rewarding type of kit. Good man!

 

As you were...

 

Tom

[Mr T]

Enjoying the tutorial and associated banter. My first completed vacform was the Rareplanes Fulmar that I built in 1983

 I was living in the nurses home at St James's Hospital in Leeds at the time and also built the Rareplanes Firebrand and Skynight. Not bad for a single room and no proper workspace thinking about it in retrospect. 

[kev67]

The dark arts of vac form modelling 👹 you can either love doing it or loath it

[Martian]

6 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

The first Vac I did was a conversion, a Koster PB4Y-2 Privateer.I had gotten as far as the Fuselage grafting and stopped. It sat above my computer monitor for over a year before I got the courage to pick it up and finish it. It wasn't a pleasant experience. In fact it probably should be stripped back down to its  parts and redone I used A LOT of autobody filler on that one. Martian I correct,Start off simple to get your feet wet. Then once your confidence improves, then tackle the challenging kits. Your sanity will thank you for it. Mine unfortunately still wants to give me heck for it😎 Of course your mileage may vary.

Thanks Loren, a good illustration of my point.

5 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold.

 

Err, carry on, as you were...

I'd rather have a Contrail Lerwick!

4 hours ago, Moa said:

Martian is doing a splendid job here with this tutorial, a good deed that deserves high praise.

As a vac builder myself (I have posted between 20 and 30 vac builds here at BM, if memory serves) I truly appreciate and support his efforts to demystify the subject and dissipate the dark aura that seems to surround it.

Perhaps a grain of sand could be added here.

I saw several times mentioned in this thread the need to start simple, to which I completely agree.

Of all those vac threads I posted here, this is perhaps the simplest. Here is a link to the RFI, which has, in the first post -in turn- the link to the WIP.

It is an Execuform vac kit, presented as a bag of very simple contents, absolutely plain shapes, and no frills at all. It possesses just the bare volumes, a very forgiving thick plastic, and the old releases came with white metal accessories.

This is the best definition of a white canvas kit you will ever find. No panel lines, no details, no decals. But this kits are accompanied with very good plans, where all the details you may like (or not) to add are described.

A kit with 6 or 8 parts, molded in sturdy plastic, may not end up being a contest winner, but it surely is a good practice kit (seen as a generic type, not just this specific kit).

Hope this may help someone:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235043963-timm-n2t-1-in-civil-galore-modifed-execuform-vacuformed-172nd-kit/

Cheers

 

Vac-a-Go-Go

 

 

 

Thanks for the comments and support Claudio.

3 hours ago, tomprobert said:

Really enjoying this, Martian. 
 

As a man who loves a vac

myself, it’s pleasing to see you revealing the dark arts of making these hugely rewarding type of kit. Good man!

 

As you were...

 

Tom

Cheers Tom. To my mind, there is no dark art, unless of course, I'm on another planet?

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

Enjoying the tutorial and associated banter. My first completed vacform was the Rareplanes Fulmar that I built in 1983

 I was living in the nurses home at St James's Hospital in Leeds at the time and also built the Rareplanes Firebrand and Skynight. Not bad for a single room and no proper workspace thinking about it in retrospect. 

Thanks Mr T, the banter seems to follow me wherever I go.

1 hour ago, kev67 said:

The dark arts of vac form modelling 👹 you can either love doing it or loath it

Takes a thousand lines; "There are no dark arts to vacform modelling and I am only allowed to love it.

 

Teacher of Mars 👽

[Martian]

Today we will looking some more at prepping the wings and since this is a bi-plane build, we will take the first steps towards the necessary rigging, another thing that seems to have gained an undeserved reputation for being a dark art.

 

When building bi-planes of any genre, I always mark out where the struts are meant to go. This is especially important with vacforms where there is always the possibility that the tiny dimples that are provided as locators for the struts may not line up properly. I get a sharp pencil and draw construction lines on the upper surfaces of the lower wing and the under surfaces of the upper wing. It is then a simple matter to measure the positions of the struts to ensure that all is well (or not) with the kit. At this stage it is a simple matter to adjust any wayward strut locations with reference to plans. Most, if not all vacforms will at least have a plan, however basic, This particular kit measured out OK.

 

 

We are now good to drill out locating holes for the struts and now is a good point to do the same for the cabane struts on the fuselage. This is also a good point to drill out rigging attachment points. Drill the hole a tad wider than the rigging material you are planning to use. I should at this stage mention that there are any number ways of rigging a model but here we are going to concentrate on what I call structural rigging. This can add great strength to what otherwise looks like a very fragile model and can be of great benefit if you have to transport you model to shows or club meetings. I don't want to get into a debate as to all the various rigging methods here, just bear with me, all will become clear in due course. The ailerons are a bit ropey In the kit so I took the opportunity to define them a bit better with my Tamiya scriber.

 

 

Finally, I promised a better picture of the amended pilot's cockpit opening.

 

 

Martian 👽

 

 

[CJP]

Ok it must be Martian mind control - I've dragged this onto the modelling desk for investigation!

CJP

 

[StephenCJ]

I don't agree about this "dark arts" heifer dust, they are a bit different.

This is NOT my first vac.  I built some when I was in the army 1985-1989 then I lost my nerve with them started a few and screwed them up.  Too much of a hurry to sand the bits.

I am enjoying Martian's tutorial and building my first vac in about 20 years.  THEY ARE NOT DARK ARTS OR HARD, JUST DIFFERENT.

Sometime today I will post some pics of my earlier attempts.

 

Stephen of the (pretend) dark arts,

[Marklo]

Seeing this I’d love to take on a good vacuum but the only one I have is a contrail zeppelin stakken, which is frankly ridiculously large ( for me anyway) and would use up all my vacant shelf space. I’m tempted to try to scratch one in 1/144 and will require some molding ( nacelles etc) but could be largely fabricated.

 

I built many vac forms in my younger days, I remember a Heinkel Julia, a vought cutlass, a Hannover, and a Pfalz D III, amongst others.

 

Also 1/48 is my preferred scale and the only vac I could find that even vaguely interested me In this scale was  a Vildebeast and it was extremely expensive, being rare. 

Still learning from the method anyway. Your strut layout method is something I’ll definitely use on my next scratchbuild. Will either be the Albatross CIX, the Swallow or the Supermarine PB31( this will need good model enhineering or it just won’t happen)
 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Marklo

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

26 minutes ago, StephenCJ said:

Stephen of the (pretend) dark arts,

So tell me, then, why is there a caldron and an owl at your side, and your next model seems to be a flying broom?

You don't fool me, sir!

[Martian]

1 hour ago, CJP said:

Ok it must be Martian mind control - I've dragged this onto the modelling desk for investigation!

CJP

 

Now you have got me to want to venture into the loft to get mine out. Trouble is; since I fell through the ceiling, Mrs Martian has banned me. 

1 hour ago, StephenCJ said:

I don't agree about this "dark arts" heifer dust, they are a bit different.

This is NOT my first vac.  I built some when I was in the army 1985-1989 then I lost my nerve with them started a few and screwed them up.  Too much of a hurry to sand the bits.

I am enjoying Martian's tutorial and building my first vac in about 20 years.  THEY ARE NOT DARK ARTS OR HARD, JUST DIFFERENT.

Sometime today I will post some pics of my earlier attempts.

 

Stephen of the (pretend) dark arts,

You put your tentacle right on it Stephen, the real secret is taking your time and being careful.

56 minutes ago, Marklo said:

Seeing this I’d love to take on a good vacuum but the only one I have is a contrail zeppelin stakken, which is frankly ridiculously large ( for me anyway) and would use up all my vacant shelf space. I’m tempted to try to scratch one in 1/144 and will require some molding ( nacelles etc) but could be largely fabricated.

 

I built many vac forms in my younger days, I remember a Heinkel Julia, a vought cutlass, a Hannover, and a Pfalz D III, amongst others.

 

Also 1/48 is my preferred scale and the only vac I could find that even vaguely interested me In this scale was  a Vildebeast and it was extremely expensive, being rare. 

Still learning from the method anyway. Your strut layout method is something I’ll definitely use on my next scratchbuild. Will either be the Albatross CIX, the Swallow or the Supermarine PB31( this will need good model enhineering or it just won’t happen)
 

 

It is a bit frustrating that there are not so many early types in 1/48. It probably has much to do with the fact that between the war types can be real stinkers to research. Many WW1 types are better documented.

45 minutes ago, Moa said:

So tell me, then, why is there a caldron and an owl at your side, and your next model seems to be a flying broom?

You don't fool me, sir!

I think he is just trying out for the role of second witch in Macbeth. (Hopes that @The Spadgent isn't reading this, he is very superstitious and has to do some sort of ritual to exorcise the evil spirits )

 

Martian 👽

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

9 minutes ago, Martian said:

I fell through the ceiling, Mrs Martian has banned me

Hum... was that the day your flying saucer landed?

[LorenSharp]

Don't know if you could have called that a landing. More like the brakes went out and he tried to stop Fred Flintstone style.

 

"It's not the fall that gets you, it's that sudden gravitational stop at the end."

[Martian]

5 minutes ago, LorenSharp said:

"It's not the fall that gets you, it's that sudden gravitational stop at the end."

It was more the rafter coming into sharp contact with my groin.

 

Martian 👽

[Andwil]

Ow!  Just reading that made my eyes water.

 

Martian soprano?

 

AW

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

3 minutes ago, Andwil said:

Ow!  Just reading that made my eyes water.

 

Martian soprano?

 

AW

Nay, "countertenor" is the proper word.

 

[Andwil]

4 minutes ago, Moa said:

Nay, "countertenor" is the proper word.

 

Or possibly “Castrati” even.  😮

 

AW

[StephenCJ]

2 hours ago, Moa said:

So tell me, then, why is there a caldron and an owl at your side, and your next model seems to be a flying broom?

You don't fool me, sir!

Caught out!

[StephenCJ]

15 minutes ago, Andwil said:

Or possibly “Castrati” even.  😮

 

That just sent a shiver down my spine.

[CJP]

5 hours ago, Martian said:

Now you have got me to want to venture into the loft to get mine out. Trouble is; since I fell through the ceiling, Mrs Martian has banned me. 

Martian 👽

I'm aghast at the thought of that - not a spare tentacle to save yourself?- what about using a drone to retrieve the Scimitar?

CJP

Edited May 21, 2020 by CJP

[roginoz]

I'm still trying to rid my mind of the mental picture of @Martian nicking into @Heather Kay's hose..........[post#95].

 

Note to self - must concentrate !

 

Rog

[mackem01]

Loving this tutorial / comedy thread.

Learning stuff and having a laugh - 

who'd believe that!

[Martian]

5 hours ago, Andwil said:

Ow!  Just reading that made my eyes water.

 

Martian soprano?

 

AW

Not as much as it made my eyes water!

5 hours ago, Moa said:

Nay, "countertenor" is the proper word.

 

I knew I could count on your help Claudio!

5 hours ago, Andwil said:

Or possibly “Castrati” even.  😮

 

AW

Not so very far off.

5 hours ago, StephenCJ said:

That just sent a shiver down my spine.

I hate to tell you what it did to me!

1 hour ago, CJP said:

I'm aghast at the thought of that - not a spare tentacle to save yourself?- what about using a drone to retrieve the Scimitar?

CJP

I think we are wandering into the realms of fantasy here Jones. Clearly you haven't seen the ginormous pile of kits that is my stash. The kits were all in order, right up to the time of the rescue operation to extract me from the rafters.

17 minutes ago, mackem01 said:

Loving this tutorial / comedy thread.

Learning stuff and having a laugh - 

who'd believe that!

Laughter is well known as a teaching aid; even if it is at the expense of the teacher!

 

38 minutes ago, roginoz said:

I'm still trying to rid my mind of the mental picture of @Martian nicking into @Heather Kay's hose..........[post#95].

 

Note to self - must concentrate !

 

Rog

I will have the magic ring remember? It makes me invisible, so I won't have to sneak in. Last I heard, Heather has taken to sleeping with the Lerwick as a precaution against kleptomaniac aliens.

 

Martian 👽

[CJP]

1 hour ago, Martian said:

!

I think we are wandering into the realms of fantasy here Jones. Clearly you haven't seen the ginormous pile of kits that is my stash. The kits were all in order, right up to the time of the rescue operation to extract me from the rafters.

Martian 👽

"realms of fantasy" or alternate facts - I mean its good enough for the Orange man

CJP

[Heather Kay]

3 hours ago, Martian said:

I will have the magic ring remember? It makes me invisible, so I won't have to sneak in. Last I heard, Heather has taken to sleeping with the Lerwick as a precaution against kleptomaniac aliens.

Darned right I have!

 

 

Ahh, my Preciousss!

 

 

Oh no! It’s somehow fallen from the shelf and onto the bench! Oh deary deary me.