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Hawker Horsley, Vacform Tutorial


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27 minutes ago, AdrianMF said:

Well you learn something every day. Something to do with visibility/torpedo aiming?

 

Nice progress and very informative!


Regards,

Adrian

 

 

Almost certainly Adrian.

 

Martian 👽

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Martin.

 

I've just sent you a message re the drawings. Your cockpit cutout is too broad to the port side. The cockpit shown here is better but not quite right in shape on the top right sloping port edge. Look at the Hawker Data sheet I posted, as there is a kink. 

 

This drawing is the one from A.F.P, Vol 2 and I have modified it to show the correct stringers. This drawing was also the reference for the Putnam drawings, as they too have the incorrect number of stringers.  The wheels and tyres by the way I believe are the same as the Bristol Berkeley and in this drawing are shown too thin in side profile. Oh, and the radiator filler is Ok in side view but in plan it is a thinner aerofoil shape not circular..

 

John

 

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1 hour ago, John Aero said:

Martin.

 

I've just sent you a message re the drawings. Your cockpit cutout is too broad to the port side. The cockpit shown here is better but not quite right in shape on the top right sloping port edge. Look at the Hawker Data sheet I posted, as there is a kink. 

 

This drawing is the one from A.F.P, Vol 2 and I have modified it to show the correct stringers. This drawing was also the reference for the Putnam drawings, as they too have the incorrect number of stringers.  The wheels and tyres by the way I believe are the same as the Bristol Berkeley and in this drawing are shown too thin in side profile. Oh, and the radiator filler is Ok in side view but in plan it is a thinner aerofoil shape not circular..

 

John

 

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Thanks John, that shouldn't take long to sort out.

1 hour ago, Edge said:

Ooh late to the party (same as always!). Hope you've room for a little one Martian?

 

Edge

 

 

No problems Edge, the more people we can convince that vacforms are not really scary, the better.

 

Martian 👽

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12 hours ago, Martian said:

There's a good Earthling!

Seeing as how you defeated that Fonderie Alize, The Scimitar should be a doddle for you.

Martian 👽

Here we go down the rabbit hole again

CJP

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Be careful there are ferrets in that rabbit hole.  Build the Scimitar.  You are an Aussie it should be no trouble.

Mate there are plenty of experts here to help and encourage.

Edited by StephenCJ
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This is excellent, thank you! Quite a lot of rare post-war RAF types seem to be available only in vac-form, and my limited ability, plus their prohibitive prices always put me off. If I can learn how to cut one out without destroying it then I may be tempted to try one.

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34 minutes ago, CJP said:

Here we go down the rabbit hole again

CJP

I have both kits and there is no contest between the two when it comes to quality. Strangely enough, my thoughts have been turning to my Scimitar since I started this thread.

28 minutes ago, StephenCJ said:

Be careful there are ferrets in that rabbit hole.  Build the Scimitar.  You are an Aussie it should be no trouble.

Mate there are plenty of experts here to help and encourage.

There's an alien down this particular rabbit hole, albeit a friendly one.

3 minutes ago, Lord Riot said:

This is excellent, thank you! Quite a lot of rare post-war RAF types seem to be available only in vac-form, and my limited ability, plus their prohibitive prices always put me off. If I can learn how to cut one out without destroying it then I may be tempted to try one.

Thanks your Lordship, if this thread lays the myth of vacforms being difficult for just one person, then it will have been worthwhile.

 

Martian 👽👽

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Hopefully you'll not only lay to rest the "vacforms are difficult" myth, but also the "rigging scares me" one too. Having said that, I quite like being in a small minority!

 

Ian

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34 minutes ago, limeypilot said:

Hopefully you'll not only lay to rest the "vacforms are difficult" myth, but also the "rigging scares me" one too. Having said that, I quite like being in a small minority!

 

Ian

That is indeed the plan Ian.

 

Martian 👽

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Whew, made it, catching up before you left me behind I mean. I think I may have mentioned already I have a few Contrail kits, but I'm not going back to check 'cause I'd have to run like hell to catch up again. :) My one & only vac build was a Rareplanes Vindicator about 40 or so years ago. That went OK but a refresher is most welcome, new ideas even more so.

Righto, carry on. :D

Steve.

Edited by stevehnz
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Right part five. The first thing I did today was to correct the shape of the pilot's cockpit. Its much better now, even if the pictures don't show it to it's best advantage. I'll do some better ones tomorrow.

 

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The main point of this installment however is the flying surfaces. Once cut from their backing sheet we can see that there is quite a lot of plastic that needs to be removed to get them down to something like scale thickness. We can get rid of a lot of the excess plastic by attacking the mating surfaces with a large flat file or even a rasp. One thing I have taken to doing, and only try this if you are very, very sure of yourself is to grind it away with a Dremel on a slow speed setting. When you have got rid of the worst of the excess plastic. the parts can be finished off on the vacform board.

 

As they are flat the parts can be hard to hold while they are being sanded and there are two solutions to this. One is to stick a loop of masking tape to the part and use it as a handle to manoeuvre the parts on the board. The other is to use some T section aluminium, stuck to the parts with some sticky pads. About thirty years ago, John Adams of Aeroclub introduced me to a product called Tee Al which was basically T section stock in assorted lengths with some sticky pads included. I saw either this product or something very much like it at Telford last year and now wish I had made a note as to who was selling it but at that time I had not opened my big trap about doing this tutorial! I have tried Google but can't remember how the product was spelt. Can you remember John? Anyway, we now very carefully sand the flying surfaces down as far as we are happy with. We will look into how to thin them down further later on in another installment, probably the next.

 

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Martin

 

I have the package ready to go as soon as I can post it. I did a quick check on the drawing I posted and to my annoyance the fuselage is a slightly different scale to the other views as printed in the book. I've fiddled with it in my drawing program and I've produced a composite drawing which corrects this problem.

 

I've also come across two overall length measurements and I've gone for the AP length (38' 10") which does not include the tail light. Martlesham measured what they got at that point in time and so the tail light was an afterthought/ later requirement..

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS I have had some Sticky pads at my demos at Telford but I'm down to only a few now in my personal collection. The firm who made them for me has since disappeared as far as I know.

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7 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Whew, made it, catching up before you left me behind I mean. I think I may have mentioned already I have a few Contrail kits, but I'm not going back to check 'cause I'd have to run like hell to catch up again. :) My one & only vac build was a Rareplanes Vindicator about 40 or so years ago. That went OK but a refresher is most welcome, new ideas even more so.

Righto, carry on. :D

Steve.

You are more than welcome to join the party Steve.

1 hour ago, John Aero said:

Martin

 

I have the package ready to go as soon as I can post it. I did a quick check on the drawing I posted and to my annoyance the fuselage is a slightly different scale to the other views as printed in the book. I've fiddled with it in my drawing program and I've produced a composite drawing which corrects this problem.

 

I've also come across two overall length measurements and I've gone for the AP length (38' 10") which does not include the tail light. Martlesham measured what they got at that point in time and so the tail light was an afterthought/ later requirement..

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS I have had some Sticky pads at my demos at Telford but I'm down to only a few now in my personal collection. The firm who made them for me has since disappeared as far as I know.

Many thanks John. Whatever you have is going to be an improvement on what I have been able to ferret out. I am not going to worry too much if the model is a bit out in dimensions as the main point of what we are trying to do here is demonstrate that there is no black art to building these kits.

 

I have found that the permanent sticky pads you can buy from a stationer's make great replacements. Sometimes the adhesive sticks to the plastic when the pads are removed but some enamel thinners on a cotton wool pad takes care of that.

 

Martian 👽

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41 minutes ago, Martian said:

there is no black art to building these kits.

So you say...

Or is it?

Are you implying that the tall black hat that I have been using when building vacs at the tall tower of my castle at midnight, has no purpose?

Nor does reciting "Double, double, toil and trouble"?

That can't be true!

 

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2 minutes ago, Moa said:

So you say...

Or is it?

Are you implying that the tall black hat that I have been using when building vacs at the tall tower of my castle at midnight, has no purpose?

Nor does reciting "Double, double, toil and trouble"?

That can't be true!

 

Yes, I am saying that you can ditch the fancy dress without any effect on your modelling Claudio. Sometimes in the wee small hours I have even been known to model "au naturelle" without any detrimental effect on my work. You do have to be careful with the scalpel though! :yikes:

 

Martian of the Crossed Legs 👽

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1 minute ago, Moa said:

You mean... all the tentacles dangling?

A sight I don't want to witness. Or even think about.

TMI

 

 

Yep, tentacles et al.

 

Sweet Dreams. :sleep_1:

 

Martian 👽

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On 5/15/2020 at 7:47 AM, Martian said:

Happy to make Crisp comfortable. We most definitely will not be allowing beer throwing. The very thought of it, the waste! I think I am about to have one of my turns!

 

Distressed of Mars 👽

Remember, Fighter pilots make headlines. Bomber Pilots make History. Just don't let Crisp try to catch the 3 wire while sitting in his perch  drinking beer.

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25 minutes ago, Moa said:

You mean... all the tentacles dangling?

A sight I don't want to witness. Or even think about.

TMI

 

 

Thank a lot Moa, Now I can't get that image out of my head. Sheesh!

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Well there you go, the backlog has been clearing nicely, now this thread has whet my appetite! There's now a Sanger Hampden on the bench in the preliminary cutting out stages!🙄

This may be considered a bit over the top but I do my sanding back with an orbital sander mounted upside down on a workbench and finish with a fine sanding block. It's quite quick though you have to keep an eye on your cut lines.

Edited by mackem01
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1 hour ago, mackem01 said:

Well there you go, the backlog has been clearing nicely, now this thread has whet my appetite! There's now a Sanger Hampden on the bench in the preliminary cutting out stages!🙄

This may be considered a bit over the top but I do my sanding back with an orbital sander mounted upside down on a workbench and finish with a fine sanding block. It's quite quick though you have to keep an eye on your cut lines.

Where are the Pics??????????

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I've quickly fiddled with this drawing to balance the fuselage profile with the other views. It was 1:72 when it left me.  To scale it, a half span should be 120.5 mm (centre to tip) and the fuselage is 164 mm (not including the tail light).

 

John

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