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Lacquer Thinner and Booths and Wha.....?


Lewis95

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Hey everyone

 

I'm just returning to the hobby since I was a kid and I've gone and bought an airbrush. On the local shop advice, I bought Tamiya paints and Mr Levelling Thinner/Mr Tool Cleaner which I've been using. 

 

What I wasn't aware of, was that Mr LT was a lacquer thinner and extremely toxic. Obviously I know I shouldn't be drinking it but I wasn't aware of how dangerous it is. My current setup is a cardboard box for over spray and a door wide open for ventilation. 

 

Unfortunately, I'm a "dining table Modeller" and as such, don't have room for a spray booth with ventilation fans etc so I'm looking for advice on how to keep myself safe whilst using these products. The dining table is also in the kitchen so I'd also like to know if I'm slowly poisoning the whole household. 

 

And one last question, 

 

Can someone please link a respirator for airbrushing these lacquer thinned paints. I'm getting beyond confused as to what I'm supposed to be looking for. 

 

Many thanks

One overly worried Modeller. 

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If you're spraying in your kitchen I wouldn't be looking to use lacquer paints or Mr Levelling thinner. Not the worst stuff, but still very smelly and will give you a headache in no time at all. I wouldn't spray them without an extractor fan myself..

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1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

If you're spraying in your kitchen I wouldn't be looking to use lacquer paints or Mr Levelling thinner. Not the worst stuff, but still very smelly and will give you a headache in no time at all. I wouldn't spray them without an extractor fan myself..

Okay, so what thinner would you recommend for the Tamiya acrylics? The paints themselves that I use aren't lacquer paints so to speak but Tamiya acrylics. 

 

The closest I can get to an extractor fan is opening the kitchen door wide open as it's about 2 or 3 feet from my usual spot at the table. 

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Just now, Lewis95 said:

Okay, so what thinner would you recommend for the Tamiya acrylics? The paints themselves that I use aren't lacquer paints so to speak but Tamiya acrylics. 

 

The closest I can get to an extractor fan is opening the kitchen door wide open as it's about 2 or 3 feet from my usual spot at the table. 

I would use the correct thinner from Tamiya, X20A acrylic thinner..

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12 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

I would use the correct thinner from Tamiya, X20A acrylic thinner..

Is the Tamiya X20A a non-lacquer type and cross compatible with Gunze acrylics? How does X20A compare on odor? 

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10 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

Is the Tamiya X20A a non-lacquer type and cross compatible with Gunze acrylics? How does X20A compare on odor? 

Yes, non lacquer type. Much less smell than pungent lacquer thinners. Never used it in Gunze paints but it smells like Gunze Aqueous thinner so I would imagine it's useable in them also..

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I use windscreen washer fluid for Tamiya and Gunze acrylics.  Works excellently for me.  A gallon goes along way and no trying to eke out expensive X-20a for cleaning.

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1 minute ago, dnl42 said:

AFAIK, X20A is an IPA-based mixture.

 

For airbrushing in your dining room, how about some water-soluble acrylics, like Mission Models, Vallejo, AMMO by MiG Jimenez, or The Army Painter?

 

I use The Army Painter Warpaints for brushing.

Because I was recommended the Tamiya range. The problem being, i had already invested considerable money into Humbrol and previously, Citadel. Both are useless for airbrushing and Humbrol is just plain rubbish. Tamiya is my 3rd paint range and I don't want to have to buy a 4th or 5th.

 

Tl;Dr - Money reasons. 

4 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

Yes, non lacquer type. Much less smell than pungent lacquer thinners. Never used it in Gunze paints but it smells like Gunze Aqueous thinner so I would imagine it's useable in them also..

Okay, I'll take a look into X20A. Is the performance of X20A good in comparison to Levelling Thinner? 

 

1 minute ago, malpaso said:

I use windscreen washer fluid for Tamiya and Gunze acrylics.  Works excellently for me.  A gallon goes along way and no trying to eke out expensive X-20a for cleaning.

I've not heard of windscreen wash being used as a thinner. IPA, yes but that's a new one on me. I've found Mr Tool Cleaner to be an excellent cleaner so far.

 

 

Any recommendations for masks are welcome as I'll still be wanting a respirator no matter the thinner I choose :)

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Would the room configuration allow you to attach a fan and one of those flexible exhaust hoses (the ones for kitchen extractors) to take the fumes to the closest window?

Technically speaking you would need a proper painter's mask because a regular mask would only filter the paint particles, but not the fumes. Tamiya doesn't smell that bad but still, not exactly healthy breathing in alcohol fumes repeatedly.

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20 minutes ago, bmwh548 said:

Would the room configuration allow you to attach a fan and one of those flexible exhaust hoses (the ones for kitchen extractors) to take the fumes to the closest window?

Technically speaking you would need a proper painter's mask because a regular mask would only filter the paint particles, but not the fumes. Tamiya doesn't smell that bad but still, not exactly healthy breathing in alcohol fumes repeatedly.

It could do. I'm only about 2ft from the open door when I airbrush. Any recommendations for a specific mask set? Or what I should be looking for? 

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I'm not a believer in using anything other than the recommended thinner for all paints. It's not a problem cost wise to thin with the proper X-20a thinner. A large bottle lasts ages. If you use it to clean your airbrush after painting you'll go through it at an alarming rate. There's airbrush cleaner for that...

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36 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

It could do. I'm only about 2ft from the open door when I airbrush. Any recommendations for a specific mask set? Or what I should be looking for? 

That would only expel the fumes into a different room. Careful you don't intoxicate someone else. 

Technically any half mask with good filtration would do, but some masks can be heavy and uncomfortable. The ones made by 3M are good, but a bit more expensive than other brands. However you only need to buy the mask once, afterwards you just get replacement cartridges.

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Although a proper extraction unit is expensive it's the only way to fully protect yourself and extract the fumes safely. It's an investment in your future health. You can use any paints smelly or not with it and your work space will be so pleasant.

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1 hour ago, Steve Noble said:

I'm not a believer in using anything other than the recommended thinner for all paints. It's not a problem cost wise to thin with the proper X-20a thinner. A large bottle lasts ages. If you use it to clean your airbrush after painting you'll go through it at an alarming rate. There's airbrush cleaner for that...

Would a water based cleaner be strong enough to break down Tamiya paints? I'm currently using Mr Tool for cleaning and an airbrush pot for expelling into. 

44 minutes ago, Parabat said:

I've seen that around before. I'm always skeptical of one size fits all products but might do for cleaning in a pinch. 

 

36 minutes ago, bmwh548 said:

That would only expel the fumes into a different room. Careful you don't intoxicate someone else. 

Technically any half mask with good filtration would do, but some masks can be heavy and uncomfortable. The ones made by 3M are good, but a bit more expensive than other brands. However you only need to buy the mask once, afterwards you just get replacement cartridges.

That's quite useful to know. I always closed the door to try and stop it spreading throughout the house. Might be worth my while moving my airbrush gear out to the garage. Any specific models of respirator you'd recommend? 

 

28 minutes ago, Pete F said:

You might struggle to get a mask at the moment. Nowhere near me has any in stock!

This is the problem. The other problem is I'm not entirely sure what kit I'm looking for. 

 

30 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

Although a proper extraction unit is expensive it's the only way to fully protect yourself and extract the fumes safely. It's an investment in your future health. You can use any paints smelly or not with it and your work space will be so pleasant.

Any recommendations on transportable Booths and units? A permanent, dedicated space is not an option currently. Any option would need to be able to be moved. 

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28 minutes ago, Lewis95 said:

The other problem is I'm not entirely sure what kit I'm looking for. 

This is the type of mask (or very similar) that I have been using for years.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/3m-4251-half-mask-respirator-a1-p2/464hy

 

It doesn't mist my glasses and is relatively comfortable.

 

The caveat is I don't spray lacquer so I can't confirm it is okay with them. 

 

If you are short of space you may wish to just spray acrylic (Vallejo, Mig etc). They are non toxic, not smelly and clean easily with water and a dash of Vallejo airbrush cleaner (or similar). I mostly use Mig Ammo and they are pretty resilient once you get the hang of them. You probably won't need a booth with them. I don't use one.

 

As for the garage be careful in the summer as if the place gets hot this will impact the quality of your finish (in my experience).

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8 minutes ago, Pete F said:

This is the type of mask (or very similar) that I have been using for years.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/3m-4251-half-mask-respirator-a1-p2/464hy

 

It doesn't mist my glasses and is relatively comfortable.

That mask has crossed my radar actually. Will do some further research into it and it's ability to filter lacquer thinners. 

 

9 minutes ago, Pete F said:

If you are short of space you may wish to just spray acrylic (Vallejo, Mig etc). They are non toxic, not smelly and clean easily with water and a dash of Vallejo airbrush cleaner (or similar). I mostly use Mig Ammo and they are pretty resilient once you get the hang of them. You probably won't need a booth with them. I don't use one.

Unfortunately I don't have the budget to go into a 4th paint range. 

 

10 minutes ago, Pete F said:

As for the garage be careful in the summer as if the place gets hot this will impact the quality of your finish (in my experience).

The garage won't be too bad hopefully as I tend to model at night as I have kids. 

 

Great info there dude. Spray Booths are cheaper than I thought so might take a harder look at one for the garage. 

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1 hour ago, Lewis95 said:

Would a water based cleaner be strong enough to break down Tamiya paints? I'm currently using Mr Tool for cleaning and an airbrush pot for expelling into. 

I've seen that around before. I'm always skeptical of one size fits all products but might do for cleaning in a pinch. 

 

That's quite useful to know. I always closed the door to try and stop it spreading throughout the house. Might be worth my while moving my airbrush gear out to the garage. Any specific models of respirator you'd recommend? 

 

This is the problem. The other problem is I'm not entirely sure what kit I'm looking for. 

 

Any recommendations on transportable Booths and units? A permanent, dedicated space is not an option currently. Any option would need to be able to be moved. 

I'm using a Graphicair a300sd it is portable and can be put in any room and the duct hose passed through a window..

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Classic Tamiya is alcohol based and very versatile. For best adhesion, use levelling lacquer thinner. They also work thinned with original thinner, isoprophyl alcohol, cheap vodka, cooking stove fuel, glass cleaner and for washable/chipping effects use plain water with few drops of rubbing alcohol, then chip with a stiff bristled brush.

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52 minutes ago, Steve Noble said:

I'm using a Graphicair a300sd it is portable and can be put in any room and the duct hose passed through a window..

Would the Sparmax SB88 be good for filtering lacquer? The A300SD is far out of my budget 

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6 minutes ago, square said:

I use a mask like this when I use lacquer paints.

https://www.dbpaints.co.uk/personal-protective-wear/423-gerson9000-44585211253.html

 

I am not an expert on masks and this is just the one I was recommended to buy in a local shop here in Denmark.

 

 

That's a good looking one. No smell or anything when using lacquer? 

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