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Help needed from Polish experts 1939-45


StevieD
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The Polish chequerboard.

 

In 1939 the red square is always at top left. In Morane/ Caudron photos from 1940 the red square is top right. In Britain it varies. Is there a correct orientation for the chequerboard? I’d imagine it should be as 1939 but why did it change in France?

 

Many thanks

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Problem was that sometimes local ground staff, who paint the marking did not care how it should be. So, they made the orientation a bit random. I never heard, that orientation was differently defined by any kind of formal order during WW2, maybe I am wrong but I never heard. 

Pre war, PZL P 11 a

RCIMFRmqPzE7udxfixXaV6m8DEiz-OPo_P6UwXDs

 

MS 406 (French period. rotated insignia)

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRn-7A2URrsKhWUVQ6eRQR

Caudron 714

_fF7gbx3lCSngQ0Ufz8O6PAvf_xOSS2Z_CswfsK2

 

Mosquito still in French style - but maybe only the photo print was mirror reflected - the swastikas are wrong oriented too!)

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQuUmrTzaHqBttP2A8s5sM

However here, on other Mosquito from also 307 Squadron again the orientation is wrong ("French style') - please not the ok written  R on nose.

307-squadron-mosquito-xii-e-hk194-ew-l-c

Again French style, still 307 Squadron

aeYGAcjVBhyWYG05P7c1J1oVATNHqoqzbeyUMtTZ

But below another Mosquito, looks like FB VI, so from 305 Squadron,  with proper orientation

n3L5SKKX78fcZHhy-Z8Flbqn7AeV4mqO038Y1dL9

back to right orientation on Spitfire

qhQwsPHj6h6pWru0msA9fM8GW9X3tWRMRCQPfDAt

Agian French style on E. Horbaczewski's Mustang

ZSsyeRtRfMCRXQE7OmPxB1jfhy5KdeXRClVrKuQE

 

So in RAF period of PAF it is likely that in certain squadrons one or another style was adopted and used, I think untill there will be another explanation this can  work as temporary hypo...

 

And with Soviets, Shcherbakov ShCh2

QaiJtU83CQb6ccmLSGt_tSqQ_wPzQxhj6yd8fB91

Pe 2

x7eHilr0go1y1C6neWe9-Lqj9K2c3rQgPy8tlsfP

 

And close to moder times

Mig 21

MiG-21.jpg

 

now, F16 - Please note "return" do French period orientation.

uid_7f7c6c724978443f31dd24182486513e1513

 

 

The change noticable on F 16 is because the orientation has officially changed in 1993 to that previously observed in France

Szachownica-lotnicza.jpg

 

In above figure  there is evolution of Polish chaquerboard - without round (1918-21), with red on top left (officially 1921-93) and with red on top right (after 1993)

 

Regards

J-W

 

 

 

Edited by JWM
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In the early days after the chessboard was adopted the way it was painted varied. Later it was standardised with the red squares top left and bottom right. After the defeat of Poland the Air Force reformed in France and were allowed to display the chessboard on the side of the fuselage of their aircraft. As a gesture it was painted in reverse, or as some say negative, and it was to remain in this orientation until Poland was free again. In Britain it was just down to whim.

 

After the collapse of the Soviet Union many of the Eastern European countries discarded their Soviet era markings and reverted to those used in the past. In a 'Me Too' moment the Polish government joined in and ordered that the orientation of the markings be reversed.

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Hypothesis on "squadron depended orientation" is not confirmed by 307 Squadron Defiant

dywizjon3_A.jpg

 

But Beau has the same as later Mosquitos

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6G4ighxigQ3ZyydD4N_7

 

Other Polish Squadrons (correct):

300

 COff93XWsAAz0yz.jpg

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFXb6DTYxcVMALQ8noxnt

 

301 correct, please increased size

59db7c4e06f0d.jpg?1507556430

 

 

302 correct

lille1944.jpg

 

 

303 (correct)

d332c22560a3a5f2e2a75648bfd53127.jpg

 

 

304 (correct)

ladro2.jpg

 

305, correct

9594Mitchell%20305%20DB.jpg

306 French style!

 

 

2017-041-a2.jpg

hurricane306.JPG

 

308 - correct

308_Retinger.jpg

 

309 correct

ATLgm7rMcUhVP_i5hqnNpvTvSlh48kqGnDfs6vGK

acc1bc0fef9326cb6a81a4ba83bdb70a.jpg

 

315 french

hqdefault.jpg

 

316

both - vide in previous post Horbaczewski Mustang

Edited by JWM
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Yes, I did wonder if it was reversed in France as a sign Poland wasn’t free. It was the variation in Britain that confused me. I suppose there were a lot more things to worry about at the time but I know there’s a Polish tendency to be accurate about these things – my father was Polish! 

 

As JWM shows most were correct orientation but even within squadrons you can’t be sure - Tadeusz Schiele’s Spitfire V of 308 has ‘French style.’

 

spacer.png

 

I’m just finishing 307 Defiant EW H. Not finding any actual photos I followed the instructions on the Model Maker Decals, then realised this was ‘French style’ when all other 307 Defiants are correct. No doubt ‘H’ was as well but I can’t be sure. 

 

Many thanks for your help and best to rely on photos I suppose.

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Let look what can be known on Dofiants in 307 Squadron

correct

Jankowiak_Defiant.jpg

also

Defiant_turret1.jpg

Another one also

dywizjon3_A.jpg

correct

https://www.mysliwcy.pl/forum/watki.php?id=490&ustaw=&s=291#

 

And photo of preserved machine from 1972

preview_boulton-paul-defiant_src_1.jpg

 

in all cases correct, so 5:0 for "correct" . Have you seen any Polish Defiant with French style?

I will go for "correct"

Regards

J-W

 

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