Luftwaffe spinner spirals decal technique?

[Vlad]

I had a slight revelation recently that I've probably been doing spinner spiral decals, especially on Bf 109s, all wrong. This was thanks to Tamiya's recent kits in 1/48 and 1/72 that have the spinner spiral decal broken up into pieces that fit neatly around the propeller blade openings. Usually these decals are one piece and getting them around the prop is a pain: my old approach was a combination of clever positioning to avoid the openings and brute force. I think I need something better given that I'm likely to be doing more of these in the future.

 

I was thinking of copying Tamiya and pre-cutting them. Is this what veteran 109 modellers do? Any other approaches to applying these tricky decals? (aside from wondering why nobody else provides them in neat pieces).

[fubar57]

Good question. This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from Luftwaffe subjects. Just found these on line and wonder if anyone has used them. Out of stock here but probably available elsewhere.

http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/eduard-1-48-luftwaffe-spinner-spirals.html

 

 

[Mark Harmsworth]

There are various ideas for painting the spinner spirals  - although I must admit I haven't yet tried any.

 

There's this very short video as an example:

 

[Roger Newsome]

That really is s good question. I'd also be interested in peoples thoughts or experience in cutting spiral decals into more manageable sizes, in theory it sounds like a good plan.

Roger. 

[Giorgio N]

In general, if the shape or size of a decal creates problem, it is a good idea to cut this into more manageable sections. This of course requires more attention to get all parts lined up correctly and ideally it's always better to apply first a section that is clearly aligned with some feature on the model. Each of the following section would then be aligned to the previous until the whole artwork is properly set in place.

One added difficulty in a spinner spiral is due to the size... in 1/48 i don't see problems, in 1/72 however the various sections should not be cut too small to become hard to put in place.

[Vlad]

Thank you all for your input but I think my question has been slightly misunderstood, and seeing that 8 second clip explains why.

 

It's not the size or shape of the decal that's the problem, it's the fact the prop blades are in the way of placement. I'm trying to put the decal on after the whole prop is assembled, so masking wouldn't help as an alternative since the prop blades would still be in the way of where a continuous mask spiral would go. This is the problem Tamiya solves by having the decal in pieces. I dismissed painting the spinner separately because I considered it too much hassle, and risk, to get a good seam-free join to the backing plate on an already painted and decalled spinner... but it seems from that video that this is the way?

[Chuck1945]

I have both painted spirals and used decals. In both cases I would assemble the spinner and backplate, attaching the back plate with PVA so it will easily pop back off and then paint the assembly. If using a decal, the paint would be in the base color, if a painted spiral, the I start with the spiral color.  The spiral would then be masked using a narrow strip of Tamiya (or similar) tape, and the the remaining color sprayed. If a decal was used, the decal is applied onto the spinner and cutouts made if necessary where it goes over a prop opening. Then either way the base plate can be popped off, the prop fitted, and the back plate reapplied. If you are careful in the initial fitting of the spinner and back plate, ensuring a good fit, there ought to be no problem subsequently taking it apart and then back together.

 

This is all in 1/72 scale

[Tail-Dragon]

I have always found it easier to mask and paint the spirals. I paint the spiral color first, punch out and apply a disc of masking tape for the front of the spinner, then cut very thin strips of tape for the spiral. Apply one strip for one side of the spiral, then the second strip for the other side (carefully setting the width of the spiral). Fill in the center of the spiral with scraps of tape, and spray the final color.

 

 

 

Its actually easier than it sounds.  Hope this helps.

[Roger Newsome]

I've only done a couple so no expert but the ones I have done I applied the decal to the separate spinner. The first one in 1/72 I found much easier than the one I did in 1/48.

7 hours ago, Vlad said:

 to get a good seam-free join to the backing plate on an already painted and decalled spinner..

There should be a seam there shouldn't there?

Roger. 

[Roger Newsome]

Just out of interest there's a nice photo here of an original....

 

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/luftcambg_2.htm

[Vlad]

11 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

If you are careful in the initial fitting of the spinner and back plate, ensuring a good fit, there ought to be no problem subsequently taking it apart and then back together.

 

4 hours ago, Roger Newsome said:

There should be a seam there shouldn't there?

Roger. 

 

41 minutes ago, Roger Newsome said:

Just out of interest there's a nice photo here of an original....

 

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/luftcambg_2.htm

 

Aha, so there is quite an obvious seam on the real thing. That makes it easier as there's no need to try to hide it. I will definitely try this technique next time, thank you! I am still a little wary though of damaging the paint by handling and when gluing back together, in a way that will the look ugly in a hard to fix place. Might be the lesser evil though, even if it messes a bit with my preferred build and painting order.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Vlad

[Roger Newsome]

4 minutes ago, Vlad said:

I am still a little wary though of damaging the paint by handling and when gluing back together,

Allow plenty of time for the paint to cure and you can also apply a coat of varnish to protect it further.

I've found it helps to do jobs like spinners and cockpit canopies out of sequence earlier in the build rather than waiting till you get go that bit in the instructions.

Roger. 

[Vlad]

50 minutes ago, Roger Newsome said:

Allow plenty of time for the paint to cure and you can also apply a coat of varnish to protect it further.

I've found it helps to do jobs like spinners and cockpit canopies out of sequence earlier in the build rather than waiting till you get go that bit in the instructions.

Roger. 

No issue with curing as I use acrylics. I leave the prop/spinner assembly off until the end but in itself it's usually completely assembled and attached in a temporary manner so I can rattle can prime without needing to mask where it goes. I'll just have to break it down even further.

[Crimea River]

Chuck1945 saved me a long response. His description is exactly what I do, but in 1/48.

[Ray_W]

I always try to do the spinner separate to the prop blades. Of course, this makes it much easier to decal or paint the spiral with the prop blades out of the way and also gives better decal alignment and access to any features that may need to be cut/trimmed. 

 

I first glue the back plate to the spinner with a small amount of PVA ensuring the spinner/backplate seam is fully closed and will represent the finished look. Note that I build 1/48 and I spend quite some time dry-fitting the prop components to ensure everything will go back together nicely when fully painted.  I then complete painting and decaling as required. Once finished, I gently separate the spinner and its backplate and remove all trace of PVA with pointed tweezers, toothpick and a scalpel blade.

 

I have found the separation of the spinner and backplate has not been a problem and have not had to resort to a scalpel blade to ensure neat paint separation unless there is a decal over the parting seam. Paints are airbrushed, so the coats are not excessive, starting with an undercoat, my usual Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500 (thinned with Mr Levelling thinners), before Tamiya or Gunze top coats and a Gunze GX100 gloss coat for decals.  Sometimes I do cut the decal spiral if required depending on the nature of the decal itself although like @Tail-Dragon I'm tending to paint more spirals with a similar technique as he described. The key is to get that spinner in it's own right to work on it, if the kit allows this. When I assemble the prop I glue the components using CA while avoiding the spinner to backplate seam.

 

It ends up a little project in its own right and I too tend to do this early in the build.

 

You will always get a kit where this will not work and unless it is a wonderful decal as supplied, it's back to pre-trimming or cutting decals and/or decal solvents or masking, some cursing may help, or a combination of all these techniques.

 

Ray