F-4j from Vietnam

[Vinster]

Hey all, I am trying to find a F-4j that saw service in Vietnam - I know there are the Academy kits but they are right at the top of my budget and I was kind of hoping to not spend that much. So I found the revell F-4j but from the research I have done I have found that it was on the Roosevelt (I think) and that during the 70s it was stationed in the med. Does anyone know if there is another kit or whether I could work with the revell kit?

[Graham T]

There are plenty of F-4J decal sheets out there so you're bound to be able to locate what you're after.  Pick a unit that served in the Vietnam theatre, say from a book or internet search, then search the Hannants site or maybe Ebay or perhaps post on here in the "wanted" section.  Your only issue might be that few sheets would be designed for the Revell kit (unless it's the Hasegawa kit reboxed?  I don't know but someone else might) with most being for the Hasegawa or Academy kits so there MAY be some "fit" issues.  

 

Just realised that I've ASSUMED you're talking about 1/48 scale but same applies to 1/72.  HTH

Edited May 5, 2020 by Graham T

[Anatol Pigwa]

You can do a Kit search on scalemates.com and it will show you almost all the kits produced in the last 50 years or so. Of course the Phantom being the most famous cold war airplane in the West has been issued many times by almost all big model manufacturers. I have an old Revell kit in 1:72 (I believe it is the same mold as the current one) and it is IMHO one of the best in this scale. Even though it has raised panel lines. You have many options to build (cockpit open/closed. flaps down, airbrakes extended) not found with other manufacturers in this scale.

[iainpeden]

The current Revell kit is the old Monogram one; you might also like the Esci C/J which fits well into the Vietnam era and is now boxed by Italeri. If you want some details on units/ships/specific aircraft let me know-it’ll give me a good excuse to delve into my Library of Phantom books.

[Vinster]

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

There are plenty of F-4J decal sheets out there so you're bound to be able to locate what you're after.  Pick a unit that served in the Vietnam theatre, say from a book or internet search, then search the Hannants site or maybe Ebay or perhaps post on here in the "wanted" section.  Your only issue might be that few sheets would be designed for the Revell kit (unless it's the Hasegawa kit reboxed?  I don't know but someone else might) with most being for the Hasegawa or Academy kits so there MAY be some "fit" issues.  

 

Just realised that I've ASSUMED you're talking about 1/48 scale but same applies to 1/72.  HTH

Thank you - this is a good plan. Do you happen to know of any good 1/72 USAF phantoms in Nam too because I'm tryna to make as many nam aircraft as possible. But thank you - I shall have a look at what kits there are decals for. Thanks for the great advice though.

[Vinster]

23 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

The current Revell kit is the old Monogram one; you might also like the Esci C/J which fits well into the Vietnam era and is now boxed by Italeri. If you want some details on units/ships/specific aircraft let me know-it’ll give me a good excuse to delve into my Library of Phantom books.

Thank you - I would be interested to know all little about the Cs or possibly the Es because I'm also looking into getting the USAF phantom. But no rush and don't go out of your way to look only if you have time. Thank you again though 

[Giorgio N]

Finding a "good" 1/72 USAF F-4C/D for a Vietnam war model today means having to go with the Italeri (nee Esci) kit. Not because it's the best, but because it's the only one easily available at a decent price. This unless you want to search the internet for other OOP options or you're happy to do some conversion work.

Not that the Italeri C/D is a bad kit, on the contrary it's a nice kit ! That however suffers from a very bare and inaccurate cockpit. If this kind of things is not a problem for you, a straight from the box build of the Italeri kit can lead to a good model.

If you want to search around, Hasegawa's C/D kits are better in every respect, however they are not easy to find and can be expensive. Fujimi also did kits of these two variants, but in addition to being not easy to find and expensive they also offer little over the Italeri kit. Then there's the old Monogram kit, that was very detailed but with raised panel lines. Again, not easy to find at all. Monogram's F-4J on the other hand is available in a Revell box, nicely detailed kit with raised panel lines again. May be converted into a C but I wonder if it's really worth the hassle...

 

If you fancy an E things are a bit better but not cheaper... the Hasegawa F-4EJ is easily available and includes all the parts needed for an early USAF F-4E as used in Vietnam. However this does not include USAF decals that will need to be found elsewhere. Hasegawa also did specific F-4E boxes but none of these is easy to find and they can be very expensive.

The same Hasegawa have an earlier tool for both an F-4EJ and a late USAF F-4E, but these kits are IMHO not great.

Both Fujimi and Esci did F-4Es in the past, both are OOP and suffered from some accuracy issue.

Another kit that suffers from some accuracy problem, that however is less noticeable, is the Revell F-4F... this could be converted into a USAF F-4E with the addition of a couple of parts, that however have to come from other kits or aftermarket; stabilators are different and for an early E you would need a new shorter gun fairing. The Revell kit is easily available, well detailed and decently priced but of course by the time you add an aftermarket sheet things change..

 

So overall if you want a decent Vietnam era USAF Phantom without looking for any aftermarket, the italeri C/D/J is currently your best option, and is not a bad option

[giemme]

Just to add on top of what @Giorgio N said, and speaking 1/72 scale, if you find an HASEGAWA F-4J and a MONOGRAM F-4C/D, you can combine the two and get an accurate result. I did that a while ago:

 

 

In that topic there's also the link to the (long) WIP thread, should you be interested

 

HTH

 

Ciao

[iainpeden]

22 hours ago, Vinster said:

Thank you - I would be interested to know all little about the Cs or possibly the Es because I'm also looking into getting the USAF phantom. But no rush and don't go out of your way to look only if you have time. Thank you again though 

No problem giving me an excuse to delve through books about Phantoms!

I’ve used the World Air Power book “Vietnam Air War Debrief” to get the following information. I thought there was a list of the carrier cruises and their air groups in the book but used the list of Mig Killers instead.

I’ll list the carrier by CVA designation – give you a bit of fun linking codes to carrier name!

The following F-4 Js are listed

10.07.68          155553        VF-191           NM107        CVA-31 (see correction below)

28.03.70          155875         VF-142          NK201          CVA-64

19.01.72          157267         VF-96            NG112          CVA-64

06.05.72          157249         VF-114          NH206          CVA-63

06.05.72          157245         VF-114          NH201          CVA-63

08.05.72          157267         VF-96            NG112          CVA-64

10.05.72          157269          VF-92            NG211          CVA-64

10.05.72          155769          VF-96            NG106          CVA-64

10.05.72          155769          VF-96            NG106          CVA-64

10.05.72          155749        VF-96            NG111          CVA-64

10.05.72          155800          VF-96            NG100          CVA-64

10.05.72          155800          VF-96            NG100          CVA-64

10.05.72          155800          VF-96            NG100          CVA-64

 

21.06.72          157293         VF-31            AC101          CVA-60

10.08.72          157299        VF-103            AC296         CVA-60

11.09.72          155526         VMFA-333      AJ-201         CVA-66

28.12.72          155846          VF-142            NK214          CVN-65

 

If you look for Microscale/Superscale decals, Eagle Strike and CAM decals –as these are the most likely to give you the markings needed (failing that PM me with specific needs as I do have boxes of Phantom decals which may never be used)

 

Double check all the above as there may be the odd typo. They were busy on 10th May '72 as the USAF also got 3 and an F-4B scored for the USN

 

The book also included the Orders of Battle for the USN and USAF throughout the conflict if you need further info.

Enjoy

[Gmat]

I think that the VF-191 should be on CVA-41, the USS Midway, a Midway class carrier. It was also modified to better handle modern jets with a larger flight deck and elevators and more powerful catapults. The elevators were moved to facilitate flight operations. CVA-31 would be The Bon Homme Richard a smaller Essex class carrier. Might be of some use and interest. 

[iainpeden]

Well done GMAT - I misread across a line as it's actually CVA-66 (the one above in the table was an F-8 of CVA-33)

so should be

 

10.07.68          155553        VF-191           AG212       CVA-66

[jpk]

On 5/5/2020 at 1:03 PM, Vinster said:

Hey all, I am trying to find a F-4j that saw service in Vietnam - I know there are the Academy kits but they are right at the top of my budget and I was kind of hoping to not spend that much. So I found the revell F-4j but from the research I have done I have found that it was on the Roosevelt (I think) and that during the 70s it was stationed in the med. Does anyone know if there is another kit or whether I could work with the revell kit?

The Monogram kit never had markings from any F-4 squadron from the USS Roosevelt. The Roosevelt did one tour to SE Asia in 1966. She was probably operating F-4B's too. The Monogram kit's markings were from VF-96 off the USS Constellation ca: 1970 or so, when ever the Cunningham-MiG shootdown happened.