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New 1/72 La-5 kits... which one?


Vlad

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After a drought of kits of the somewhat rarer subject that is the early, high-back La-5, we are now spoiled by two nearly simultaneous releases from Kovozavody Prostejov and Clear Prop Models.

 

The KP is already out and the only reason I didn't buy it the minute I got the email from Hannants is because I am considering what else to add to the order. But now I'm wondering, should I wait longer and get the Clear Prop? We have good sprue shots for both but no critical reviews yet (just descriptive ones). CP looks like it might have finer detail and you get PE with it but I'm worried about fit and general quality as I've never heard of them. KP are part of a known good stable and while not all their kits are perfect I expect it to go together without too much drama. Assuming it's at least partly based on their La-5FN from a few years ago it should be good.

 

So it's probably too early to tell, but what are people's feelings about which one is the one to get?

Edited by Vlad
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Have the same problem. Moreover - I like to put my aircraft models in families - one variant next to another. And I need them to feature the same undercarriage, cockpit canopy or propeller if such elements were identical in full size prototypes. Because of that years ago I have modified two KP La-5FNs to represent the La-7 and LaGG-3 instead of building the KP La-7 (no common parts with the La-5FN in kitted form) and Toko (or even Dako) LaGG. 

And now the problem appears again - Clear Prop will offer LaGG-3 and early (high back) La-5, but neither La-5FN nor La-7, whereas KP will have La-5, La-5F, La-5FN and perhaps La-7 in their range (but no LaGG-3). Thus I will buy neither KP nor Clear Prop unless anyone of them offers whole range of Lavochkin fighters based on the same tooling.

Some people say I'm a freak - are they right?

Cheers

Michael

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2 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Have the same problem. Moreover - I like to put my aircraft models in families - one variant next to another. And I need them to feature the same undercarriage, cockpit canopy or propeller if such elements were identical in full size prototypes. Because of that years ago I have modified two KP La-5FNs to represent the La-7 and LaGG-3 instead of building the KP La-7 (no common parts with the La-5FN in kitted form) and Toko (or even Dako) LaGG. 

And now the problem appears again - Clear Prop will offer LaGG-3 and early (high back) La-5, but neither La-5FN nor La-7, whereas KP will have La-5, La-5F, La-5FN and perhaps La-7 in their range (but no LaGG-3). Thus I will buy neither KP nor Clear Prop unless anyone of them offers whole range of Lavochkin fighters based on the same tooling.

Some people say I'm a freak - are they right?

Cheers

Michael

You might not be buying any then. Does it really matter who makes what version? Very few manufacturers make all versions of a type and if you want them all then you have to buy different manufacturers.

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From what I've read the CP A5M and Ki-51 go together nicely, though I've yet to build them myself. Personally I will be buying both as I want the earlier CP version and the KP version.

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15 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

From what I've read the CP A5M and Ki-51 go together nicely, though I've yet to build them myself. Personally I will be buying both as I want the earlier CP version and the KP version.

Of course! The Clear Prop has the even earlier round front glass while the KP has the updated flat armour. Ah... it just so happens I have some spare mask that would fit the latter but not the former. It's not critical but could be a tie-breaker all else being equal.

 

Also not entirely sure on the value of all that etch. It's not even printed coloured like Eduard, and seems to use etch in places I would consider un-necessary, especially since this one I'm planning as a wheels up build.

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8 hours ago, Vlad said:

Of course! The Clear Prop has the even earlier round front glass while the KP has the updated flat armour. Ah... it just so happens I have some spare mask that would fit the latter but not the former. It's not critical but could be a tie-breaker all else being equal.

 

Also not entirely sure on the value of all that etch. It's not even printed coloured like Eduard, and seems to use etch in places I would consider un-necessary, especially since this one I'm planning as a wheels up build.

Well I'm not a fan of colour PE, so the fact that CP haven't gone that ways is a bonus for me. You say it might be un-necessary but have you looked at the prices? The CP kit is £17.50 and the two KP kits are £17.60 and £15.40.

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As someone who is a fan of the Lavochkin fighters, I am in the same boat. Currently building the Eduard La-7.

 

In fact, if you want to have the complete La- family wartime line, get both the ClearProp and KP kits. 

 

The CP is an early series (1 through 5) La-5. One of the most distinctive features in scale would be the rounded front windscreen, same as on the Lagg-3.

 

The KP La-5s are from series 5 onwards. They have the flat, armored front windscreen. This kit can also be used to represent the early series La-5F, which were regular razorback La-5s with the M-82F engine with continous boost mode.

 

Then you get the bubble canopy La-5F version, which was very widespread and served for quite a while, yet hasn't been made into a kit before. The air scoop on top of the cowling in the La-5F is shorter than that of the La-FN.

 

Now, lastly, La-5FNs. Early series built in 1943 and later 1944 series would have small differences, such as the small air scoops on the cowling sides (those just aft of the armored cowl flaps) and, most notably, different aerial mast configuration.

 

Plenty of options if you go with either or both kits. :)

 

Edited by Ventsislav Gramatski
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9 hours ago, Tbolt said:

You might not be buying any then. Does it really matter who makes what version? Very few manufacturers make all versions of a type and if you want them all then you have to buy different manufacturers.

OK, Tbolt. But if you place Sword P-47N next to Tamiya razorback P-47D they look like two versions of the same design, which is not the case if the N comes from Heller or Italeri unless you replace the whole engine cowling.  Same applies to the Tamiya Bf109E and FineMolds 109F/G/K - you can even swap the main u/c between E and F and they look OK. But if you place Heller 109E along the Hasegawa 109G you will have two entirely different aircraft side by side. The Lavochkin case is still worse - just compare the rear fuselage section of Italeri/Revell 5FN, Dako LAGG,  Eduard 7 and any KP kit. They should be the same and they aren't. Why are the kit manufacturers using so different drawings for making the moulds? 

The difference in canopy height between Zvezda Pe-2 and the (otherwise very good) Unimodels one is 25 per cent. The same applies to the canopy width of Toko/Zvezda and Dakoplast/Eastern Express Il-2 - the difference is almost 30%. And Yakovlev fighters in 1/72 are a nightmare as a whole :(

I'm building aircraft models for some 55 years but I see that my attitude is odd. Happily for the kit manufacturers :)

Cheers

Michael

 

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1 hour ago, KRK4m said:

OK, Tbolt. But if you place Sword P-47N next to Tamiya razorback P-47D they look like two versions of the same design, which is not the case if the N comes from Heller or Italeri unless you replace the whole engine cowling.  Same applies to the Tamiya Bf109E and FineMolds 109F/G/K - you can even swap the main u/c between E and F and they look OK. But if you place Heller 109E along the Hasegawa 109G you will have two entirely different aircraft side by side. The Lavochkin case is still worse - just compare the rear fuselage section of Italeri/Revell 5FN, Dako LAGG,  Eduard 7 and any KP kit. They should be the same and they aren't. Why are the kit manufacturers using so different drawings for making the moulds? 

The difference in canopy height between Zvezda Pe-2 and the (otherwise very good) Unimodels one is 25 per cent. The same applies to the canopy width of Toko/Zvezda and Dakoplast/Eastern Express Il-2 - the difference is almost 30%. And Yakovlev fighters in 1/72 are a nightmare as a whole :(

I'm building aircraft models for some 55 years but I see that my attitude is odd. Happily for the kit manufacturers :)

Cheers

Michael

 

In a perfect world all kits would be accurate, but we are not in a perfect world and not all kits are. So you build what you think is a fairly accurate kit and then a few years later a more accurate kit comes out and when you put it on the shelf next to the older one you can notice some difference. What do you do, throw the old one away?

 

So your choice is either build the kit as they are and don't worry so much about inaccuracies or fix them. The problem is some manufacturers only using drawings to produce kits which should never be done. If the KP kit is different from the CP one ( not with major inaccuracies ) then I just won't put them on the shelf next to each other, it's just not worth worrying about. Don't get me wrong I like accurate kits and do fix some faults with some of them, but if you worry about it too much then you won't get much built and won't enjoy the hobby as much.

 

 

 

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@Chuck1945 the gentleman on those threads seems very damning of the KP kits, which makes me glad I waited. On the other hand, he confirms my suspicions that the PE is just extra work.

 

@Tbolt it's unfortunate the KP kit isn't significantly cheaper, but the £15 box at least comes with the garish but interesting (for me) shark mouth decals. So it's still a contender due to circumstantial reasons even if it might be the worse kit.

 

I'm also curious now how soon Hannants will stock the CP kit, if some people apparently already received theirs direct and are building!

Edited by Vlad
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37 minutes ago, Vlad said:

@Chuck1945 the gentleman on those threads seems very damning of the KP kits, which makes me glad I waited. On the other hand, he confirms my suspicions that the PE is just extra work.

 

@Tbolt it's unfortunate the KP kit isn't significantly cheaper, but the £15 box at least comes with the garish but interesting (for me) shark mouth decals. So it's still a contender due to circumstantial reasons even if it might be the worse kit.

 

I'm also curious now how soon Hannants will stock the CP kit, if some people apparently already received theirs direct and are building!

Seems like the guy is talking about the older molding as he said he bought a box load and was working on the last one.

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4 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

Seems like the guy is talking about the older molding as he said he bought a box load and was working on the last one.

But there's the expectation that at least some tooling is re-used, at least where possible and appropriate. The sprue layouts are not exactly the same but common elements e.g. the wings look very similar between old and new kits.

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3 minutes ago, Vlad said:

But there's the expectation that at least some tooling is re-used, at least where possible and appropriate. The sprue layouts are not exactly the same but common elements e.g. the wings look very similar between old and new kits.

  

That's not what KP are saying.

On 12/6/2019 at 10:52 AM, Jan Polc said:

Hi gentlemen,

John Thompson - La-5FN is completely new, from the new molds. We expect easier building, also some details were changed.

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235010228-kpaz-central-discussion-questions-answers/page/54/&tab=comments#comment-3517367

 

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10 minutes ago, Vlad said:

Well... then that is very good news, especially if a new FN is coming on top of this. I think that's my shopping decision made in that case.

I'm just waiting for a review first, but haven't seen one yet.

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Morning gentlemen,

I was quoted, so my few words into topic from the point of view of manufacturer,

All major parts were re-tooled, surface details are another on the wings and fuselage. Also some - not all - small parts were refined. So it is a new tooled kit. Talking about KP....

We decided to make La-5, 5F, new 5FN and trainer version, here it will be based on FN version as trainers based on F are different piece to piece. Lavochkin La-7 is in the pipeline as 

we considered that there is no one "seven" on the level of today.

 

When staying in front of decision which kit to buy remember, that CP and KP are different versions. KP decided not to make an early La-5, because it is not only the question of another windscreen

but also anothe vertical tail surfaces and rear part of fuselage. Limited in available camouflage references the investments into another mould was too high.

 

Time schedule - "Razorbacks" are released, new boxings in preparation, 5F is expected in June and FN with UTI later this year. 

 

LaGG-3 - thanks to the complexicity of series and differencies between them KP declined to make this kit. CP promised it, so you have good chance to make full line of Lavochkin fighters.

 

I am not the person, who is allowed to say "Buy this", it is on your choice. I am sure, that both kits have some issues, rivet counters will discover these very early. The only thing I can say is, that CP La-5 is nice kit when looking at the parts in the sprues (I have no personal experience with the fit) and some alternative parts are also promising. On the other hand, KP kit is also nice kit, with no significant fit problem (I have personal experience with). CP offers a little bit uniform camouflage schemes, thanks to the real thing they kitted. KP offers attractive schemes and we can expect more...

 

So, which kit to buy?

Edited by Jan Polc
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@Jan Polc thank you very much for your answer! I know in the past I have been one of the rivet counters to criticise some AZ kits, but it's great how active you are in the community here and the subjects you are producing. I will look forward to this La-5 and the FN later this year. I missed the chance to buy the previous KP La-5FN and now I am glad about that if you are making a better one!

 

I would disagree with you about the La-7 though, since we have the excellent Eduard kit already, but I am sure the KP one will be very good too 😉

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On 05/05/2020 at 22:28, Tbolt said:

You might not be buying any then. Does it really matter who makes what version? Very few manufacturers make all versions of a type and if you want them all then you have to buy different manufacturers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Wulfman
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On 05/05/2020 at 20:17, KRK4m said:

Have the same problem. Moreover - I like to put my aircraft models in families - one variant next to another. And I need them to feature the same undercarriage, cockpit canopy or propeller if such elements were identical in full size prototypes. Because of that years ago I have modified two KP La-5FNs to represent the La-7 and LaGG-3 instead of building the KP La-7 (no common parts with the La-5FN in kitted form) and Toko (or even Dako) LaGG. 

And now the problem appears again - Clear Prop will offer LaGG-3 and early (high back) La-5, but neither La-5FN nor La-7, whereas KP will have La-5, La-5F, La-5FN and perhaps La-7 in their range (but no LaGG-3). Thus I will buy neither KP nor Clear Prop unless anyone of them offers whole range of Lavochkin fighters based on the same tooling.

Some people say I'm a freak - are they right?

Cheers

Michael

 

On 05/05/2020 at 20:17, KRK4m said:

Have the same problem. Moreover - I like to put my aircraft models in families - one variant next to another. And I need them to feature the same undercarriage, cockpit canopy or propeller if such elements were identical in full size prototypes. Because of that years ago I have modified two KP La-5FNs to represent the La-7 and LaGG-3 instead of building the KP La-7 (no common parts with the La-5FN in kitted form) and Toko (or even Dako) LaGG. 

And now the problem appears again - Clear Prop will offer LaGG-3 and early (high back) La-5, but neither La-5FN nor La-7, whereas KP will have La-5, La-5F, La-5FN and perhaps La-7 in their range (but no LaGG-3). Thus I will buy neither KP nor Clear Prop unless anyone of them offers whole range of Lavochkin fighters based on the same tooling.

Some people say I'm a freak - are they right?

Cheers

Michael

You will be saving quite a bit of money !

Wulfman

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4 hours ago, Jan Polc said:

Morning gentlemen,

I was quoted, so my few words into topic from the point of view of manufacturer,

All major parts were re-tooled, surface details are another on the wings and fuselage. Also some - not all - small parts were refined. So it is a new tooled kit. Talking about KP....

We decided to make La-5, 5F, new 5FN and trainer version, here it will be based on FN version as trainers based on F are different piece to piece. Lavochkin La-7 is in the pipeline as 

we considered that there is no one "seven" on the level of today.

 

When staying in front of decision which kit to buy remember, that CP and KP are different versions. KP decided not to make an early La-5, because it is not only the question of another windscreen

but also anothe vertical tail surfaces and rear part of fuselage. Limited in available camouflage references the investments into another mould was too high.

 

Time schedule - "Razorbacks" are released, new boxings in preparation, 5F is expected in June and FN with UTI later this year. 

 

LaGG-3 - thanks to the complexicity of series and differencies between them KP declined to make this kit. CP promised it, so you have good chance to make full line of Lavochkin fighters.

 

I am not the person, who is allowed to say "Buy this", it is on your choice. I am sure, that both kits have some issues, rivet counters will discover these very early. The only thing I can say is, that CP La-5 is nice kit when looking at the parts in the sprues (I have no personal experience with the fit) and some alternative parts are also promising. On the other hand, KP kit is also nice kit, with no significant fit problem (I have personal experience with). CP offers a little bit uniform camouflage schemes, thanks to the real thing they kitted. KP offers attractive schemes and we can expect more...

 

So, which kit to buy?

Thanks for the clarification. Obviously there is no need to retool a part if it is already good enough. I'll be buying the CP kit and at least one KP kit.

 

As for the La-7, the Eduard one seems reasonable but you have obviously seen room for improvement. What we really need is an new La-7 in 1/48th scale as the available ones are not good.

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On 5/5/2020 at 6:38 PM, Vlad said:

But now I'm wondering, should I wait longer and get the Clear Prop? We have good sprue shots for both but no critical reviews yet (just descriptive ones)

Not critical review just building:

http://scalemodels.ru/articles/14178-Clear-Prop-1-72-la-5-Early-Version.html

but in discussions topic:

 

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1617800.html#1617800

 

have some questions about accurate:

 

- nose part:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1617800_1589023360_1588503074_DSC03474.jpg.html

 

-  canopy:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1617775_1589018014_1588503074_DSC03474.jpg.html

 

If with nose part questions  debatable....but with a canopy it really seems like a mistake.  Unless of course there were different versions of the canopy of the early La-5.

 

I think, for  order to create an accurate opinion about which of the La-5s is accurate,  need a La-5 photo comparison from:

- VES;

- P&J;

- CP;

- future KP;

- don't remember AML(?)

 

then  need to compare the difference with the drawings (what?) and the technical manual.

 

Of course, such a comparison can only be made by a big fan of La-5, who has all these models, does anyone know such a modeller?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Edited by Aardvark
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1 hour ago, Aardvark said:

Not critical review just building:

http://scalemodels.ru/articles/14178-Clear-Prop-1-72-la-5-Early-Version.html

but in discussions topic:

 

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1617800.html#1617800

 

have some questions about accurate:

 

- nose part:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1617800_1589023360_1588503074_DSC03474.jpg.html

 

-  canopy:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1617775_1589018014_1588503074_DSC03474.jpg.html

 

If with nose part questions  debatable....but with a canopy it really seems like a mistake.  Unless of course there were different versions of the canopy of the early La-5.

 

I think, for  order to create an accurate opinion about which of the La-5s is accurate,  need a La-5 photo comparison from:

- VES;

- P&J;

- CP;

- future KP;

- don't remember AML(?)

 

then  need to compare the difference with the drawings (what?) and the technical manual.

 

Of course, such a comparison can only be made by a big fan of La-5, who has all these models, does anyone know such a modeller?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

The windscreen probably looks worse because the frames are thicker than they should be ( a limitation of 1/72 ) but it does look a little short.

 

I can't see what the problem is with the cowl bump, give us a clue?

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45 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

The windscreen probably looks worse because the frames are thicker than they should be ( a limitation of 1/72 ) but it does look a little short.

It seems to me shorter and higher, but this my opinion is based only on my visual perception, therefore it may be inaccurate.

47 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

I can't see what the problem is with the cowl bump, give us a glue?

How modeller who in his life once, long time ago, building LaGG-3 1-5 series from TOKO, LaGG-3 35 & 66 series from Dakoplast, La-5 from VES, La-5FN from old KP and La-7 kitbashing from NOVO and KP, it's also interesting for me....but question about nose  asked KSL whom many know as the owner and designer of the Vector company as well as a great expert on Soviet 2WW aircraft.  What confuses him there and he himself will not understand, but something confuses ....

 

B.R.

Serge

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27 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

It seems to me shorter and higher, but this my opinion is based only on my visual perception, therefore it may be inaccurate.

How modeller who in his life once, long time ago, building LaGG-3 1-5 series from TOKO, LaGG-3 35 & 66 series from Dakoplast, La-5 from VES, La-5FN from old KP and La-7 kitbashing from NOVO and KP, it's also interesting for me....but question about nose  asked KSL whom many know as the owner and designer of the Vector company as well as a great expert on Soviet 2WW aircraft.  What confuses him there and he himself will not understand, but something confuses ....

 

B.R.

Serge

Okay I didn't noticed anything off with the height, I was just looking at the length of the windscreen, which like I said though it maybe a little short looks worse because of the thick frames. If the frame were to scale I think it would look fine.

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