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Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23/27 “Flogger” STGB


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I really do need to avoid the GB Chat area!!! :doh:

 

Aa a result of wandering through the GB forums (..I won’t say why… :whistle:  ) , we’ve had STGB’s for pretty well all the popular/known modern jets (even multiple times) and one was noticeably missing, the MiG-23/27.

 

Whilst the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23/27 was probably not their most popular or well-loved product, they did produce over 6000 in all their variants and used by just about everyone (37 counties in total), and surprisingly is still in use (9 counties in total).

 

So it’s probably time we had a STGB for her and show her a little love.

 

The MiG-27 is included as she is a direct sibling much like the MiG-31 is a sibling of the earlier MiG-25.

 

There’s a huge range of models available, with even a great number of interesting schemes. Me, I’ll be going with  Eduards 1/48th “Bedna” MiG-23MF/ML model…in Czech Tiger scheme of course!   :D

 

1, trickyrich         - host

2, Corsairfoxfouruncle

3, Col.

4, reini

5, zebra

6, Marlin

7, Valkyrie

8, Foxbat

9, Jabba

10, Arniec

11, theplasticsurgeon

12, helios16v

13, CliffB

14,

15,

 

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Hello Rich... Though I prefer my Mig's to be the early generations. I have done a cursory look through and found a couple that might just be nice to build. Im in with either a Polish A.F., Something in desert colors, or possibly Soviet Afghanistan era. I found at least two 1/72 kits though the Zvesda seems out of stock at the moment at my go to Hobby retailer. 

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Oh go on then.

There's a -23M in the stash needing built but you'll likely push me into sourcing a -23BN/-27 as well just 'cause I've always liked the look of them but have so far avoided all the inaccurate kits available.

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I have built the KP MiG-23MF in 1:72 and was not completely sold on it. Might have been just me though, I was still at the first steps of my return to the Hobby, it was maybe bit harder than I thought. They do have tempting selection of versions and schemes!

 

Is the KP kit the best in 1:72 or what do you recommend? Preferably 23BN or 27 but anything goes really.

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Count me in. Always had a thing for the MiG-23 and 27 but somehow it hasn't translated into actually building them! So this will be the kick I need to get on with the Trumpeter MiG-23MLD I have in the stash.

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Well I got 2 23's in the stash, so I'll play too if I can. :D

Soviet, East German or some Middle Eastern country I guess it'll be.

 

/Bosse

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I’d do a Czech 23...stick me down

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welcome along everyone.

 

10 hours ago, reini said:

I have built the KP MiG-23MF in 1:72 and was not completely sold on it. Might have been just me though, I was still at the first steps of my return to the Hobby, it was maybe bit harder than I thought. They do have tempting selection of versions and schemes!

 

Is the KP kit the best in 1:72 or what do you recommend? Preferably 23BN or 27 but anything goes really.

I just had a look on Scalemate as to what's available, the usually suspects and re-boxes of them! But I did notice that Zvezda and a newer company R.V. Aircraft have a nice range of variants available. The RV ones do look particularly nice.

 

If you want to go big, 1/48th then Trumpie is the only way to go.

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I'll pretend I'll play. 

I've got a 48th Trumpie & 72nd Zvezda in the stash already.  :mental:

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On 5/5/2020 at 8:42 AM, trickyrich said:

Whilst the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23/27 was probably not their most popular or well-loved product

Not agree.

Last models MiG-23 - MiG-23MLD was by all accounts a very serious fighter. But the path to further upgrades was blocked by the MiG-29 on which a bet was made. Upgrading was or single examples, as MiG-23MLDG with ECM station "Gardeniya" or was only on a paper as project with two engine RD-33 or naval MiG-23K.

About MiG-27.

MiG-27K with Kaira  sighting-navigation station also was very seriously fighter-bomber, moreover, even according to some Western sources, Kaira had no analogues in the West until the end of the 80s.But the complex was an awfully large price, even by the standards of the USSR.

 

Of course early version MiG-23 was disaster, real work fighter was only from MiG-23M and higher...

 

On 5/5/2020 at 3:38 PM, reini said:

Is the KP kit the best in 1:72 or what do you recommend? Preferably 23BN or 27 but anything goes really.

No accurate MiG-23 in 72nd scale.

All models have a geometric problem.

MiG-27 in 72nd scale not bad from ART-models, but she also have some problem with  geometry nose-canopy.

 

B.R.

Serge

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31 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Not agree.

Last models MiG-23 - MiG-23MLD was by all accounts a very serious fighter. But the path to further upgrades was blocked by the MiG-29 on which a bet was made. Upgrading was or single examples, as MiG-23MLDG with ECM station "Gardeniya" or was only on a paper as project with two engine RD-33 or naval MiG-23K.

About MiG-27.

MiG-27K with Kaira  sighting-navigation station also was very seriously fighter-bomber, moreover, even according to some Western sources, Kaira had no analogues in the West until the end of the 80s.But the complex was an awfully large price, even by the standards of the USSR.

I agree the later versions were good, but by that there future was already decided. Swing wing aircraft are complex beasts (I worked on F-111's) and are not cheap to maintain.

 

What do you think of the R.V. Models?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, trickyrich said:

there future was already decided.

But Tornado, MiG-23/27, Su-17/22, Su-24M, Tu-22M, Tu-160 and B-1B are still in service.

Moreover, according to some criteria, the Su-24M is considered better than the Su-34, namely, the possibility of a long, low-altitude flight with enveloping the surface in automatic mode.

9 hours ago, trickyrich said:

Swing wing aircraft are complex beasts (I worked on F-111's) and are not cheap to maintain.

As for the service, I generally agree, but specifically the latest versions of the MiG-23/27 were quite friendly to the technical personnel in the service, judging by the memoirs.

9 hours ago, trickyrich said:

(I worked on F-111's)

WOW!!!

👍💪

9 hours ago, trickyrich said:

What do you think of the R.V. Models?

In non from box builds on Russian sites:

(This 10-year assembly on 18 pages, by the way, is interesting in that it was made by the pilot commander B-737, who served in military transport aviation, whose father was the MiG-23MLD pilot who fought in Afghanistan):

 

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33991&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

 I observed many problems with it related to correcting geometry errors.  There is an opinion that RV took the Zvezda as a basis along with their errors and added their own errors.  At one time, I turned this model in my hands in a local hobby shop, but did not buy.  Yes, I have a Zvezda, but I’m unlikely to do it in the near future, it’s easier to wait until someone makes a normal and accurate model of this aircraft.

In addition, at one time I didn’t buy bad enough detailed kits for the MiG-23 from RV-resin, which also does not add to the desire to make the MiG-23.

 

MiG-27K from ART-MODELS  I have.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

B.w....Ye-2A

and MiG-23PD it's also a officially named MiG-23!😉

 

Do You include them in this GB?😉😁😁😁

Edited by Aardvark
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5 hours ago, Aardvark said:

 

and MiG-23PD it's also a officially named MiG-23!😉

 

Do You include them in this GB?😉😁😁😁

as long as it share DNA with the MiG-23 it will be ok.....though as Host I have the final say! :D

 

Mmm swings wings may still be inservice, but running/maintenance cost a way above non-swing-wing aircraft of similar types!! But they were an important part of evolution, but like as in all things evolutionary.......  That said I am a huge fan of these beasts ( I hosted the first Swing Wing GB), for me they are technical marvels which fascinate me.

 

I hope I didn't offend with the "not their most popular or well-loved product", that seems to be a populous view in some places! The same could have and was said about the F-111...but in certain roles it was the best in class....and in some cases never equaled! 

 

What do you think of the Trumpeter 1/48th version?

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, trickyrich said:

as long as it share DNA with the MiG-23

DNA?

Ye-2A DNA more close to MiG-21, but MiG-23PD it's more close to MiG-23...fin, underfuselage fin, tail, radom, nose fuselage part, nose wheel gear and canopy very close to MiG-23....in fact this hybrid MiG-23 with MiG-21 wing and Mirage type intake. To throw out two unnecessary verticals take-off engines, modify the wing like Su-15TM or the 

F-7G Chinese upgrade clone MiG-21

and it would probably turn out to be the main fighter in less time than the MiG-23MLD, but the aircraft was considered unpromising for the swept-wing.

As result MiG-23PD at the Moscow Aviation Institute, he worked as a visual aid on the topic "how not to make aircraft."

But at the same time, before the MiG-23 became the MiG-23MLD, it changed the wing three times, maked large fuselage, brought the radar to mind, changed the fin, made it easier by 1.5 tons, changed access to equipment and made centralized fueling while discovering vortex aerodynamics,  subsequently widely used on the Su-27 and MiG-29.

Nevertheless, the scarcastic humor that "during the development of the MiG-23 the Government  Lenin Premium  was given by Academician Bushgens for the bad wing he redone three times, to the engine designer because the engine did the right thrust and the radar designer because the radar did not work", there was a place.

 

4 hours ago, trickyrich said:

Mmm swings wings may still be inservice, but running/maintenance cost a way above non-swing-wing aircraft of similar types!!

The more different moving parts, the more likely they are to break!  There will always be more moving parts in the swept wing of an airplane than in an ordinary one!  Therefore, nothing surprising!

4 hours ago, trickyrich said:

I hope I didn't offend with the "not their most popular or well-loved product", that seems to be a populous view in some places!

My public  image of an “evil Russian who rushing to bite and tear to pieces, to the Britmodeler, everyone who speaks poorly and thinks about Soviet airplanes” is somewhat exaggerated! 😁😁😁

But on the other hand, what should I do if in the West in many cases they write myths and outright nonsense?  Agree with all this and nod my head?

😕

 

4 hours ago, trickyrich said:

What do you think of the Trumpeter 1/48th version?

 

Not my scale! 

But from what I caught a glimpse of in Russian forums this is bad.  But maybe I'm wrong, I repeat, this is not my scale!

 

B.R.

Serge

Edited by Aardvark
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10 hours ago, trickyrich said:

I hope I didn't offend with the "not their most popular or well-loved product", that seems to be a populous view in some places!

I shall just say I will build one for the build. If only to fill a gap in my collections. Its not that I don't like MiG-23/27’s, its swing wing designs in general that Im not a huge fan of. Though I do like the look of Tomcat’s & Vark’s and got to sit in an F-111 for a bit in the late 80’s. I have my technical reasons for not liking swing wings in general. However I wont post them here as Ive been confronted by one member on the Forum. And as he stated then my evidence against swing wings was suspect. As I really don't want that confrontation again:boxing: :crap: and a stiff talking to by the Moderators. :bobby:  


Dennis

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she is also the last 1/48th one missing my collection of swing wing aircraft .....and no I won't be adding a 1/48th B-1 to it!  :yikes: 

 

It's ok I allow opinions here, everyone is allowed one and hey are free to say it, they just have to play nice.....if not I just delete the post! :D The power of the host! :fight:

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I have my technical reasons for not liking swing wings in general.

Why? It would be interesting to hear Your opinion!

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

However I wont post them here as Ive been confronted by one member on the Forum.

It's not mе!!!

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

As I really don't want that confrontation again:boxing: :crap: and a stiff talking to by the Moderators. :bobby:  

Tssss ..... we will not tell the moderators about this!😉😁

....and if he comes to this topic, then let the strongest win in this dispute!

THIS_IS_SPARTA.jpg

😉😁😁😁

11 hours ago, trickyrich said:

she is also the last 1/48th one missing my collection of swing wing aircraft

In fact, for collection need two or three MiG-23:

- MiG-23S

- MiG-23MLD

as first and last version for showing development MiG-23

....and MiG-23BN 

for showing development progress MiG-27.

😉

11 hours ago, trickyrich said:

.....and no I won't be adding a 1/48th B-1 to it!  :yikes: 

....that is, the Tu-160 and Tu-22M in the 48th scale do You still have ?!😉😁

How about Sukhoj T-4MS ("200")

200.jpg

and Sukhoj T-60

Dm5iESAWan.gif

in 48th scale?

 

B.w. in this year, probably, the Chinese will roll out their new strategic bomber H-20 ... it would be ridiculous if he uses the swept -wing scheme! 😉😁

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

About the fighter version of the MiG-23 so far the most complete publication in Russian that I read:

"MiG-23 fighter.  To protect the sky of the Motherland" Markovsky Victor Yurievich, Prikhodchenko Igor 

Vladimirovich.

1018972373.jpg

a digital book can be bought for example here:

https://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/143582207/

 

some pages for your reference:

 

https://books.google.com.ua/books/about/Истребитель_МиГ_23_На_з.html?id=Llk6DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y

Edited by Aardvark
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5 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Why? It would be interesting to hear Your opinion!

No that path only leads to the dark side padawan. 

5 hours ago, Aardvark said:

It's not mе!!!

no its not you Serge.

5 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Tssss ..... we will not tell the moderators about this!😉😁

....and if he comes to this topic, then let the strongest win in this dispute!

Sadly someone always runs n tattles. 😉

 

Dennis

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2 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

No that path only leads to the dark side padawan. 

But many people think that I’m already on the dark side of the force, because from this topic

it’s clear that I have not just cookies,

tads0gvsx2a.jpg

I have a cake (!) .... well,  was ....recently

😉😁😁

 

Therefore, Your opinion will not undermine the prevailing opinion in my head about swing-wings ...but maybe it’s a little shaky!

😁

 

B.R.

%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%

Serge

😁😁

 

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Given that the MiG-23 is one of only two Russian aircraft I've ever sat in, it would be rude not to join in. I'd quite like to overreach myself as usual and do a -23 and a -27 but we'll see.

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Some technical details about Infra-Red detector TP-23/TP-23M including in weapons systems MiG-23 here:

 

B.R.

Serge

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welcome along Foxbat you're on the list

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Add my name to the list please. I have a Mig-23ML or (I am sure) a twin sticker in the stash somewhere.

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Where did this GB come from?! 😱 Now I want to buIld one. Luckely I have got already a Mig 23 and a 27 in my stash.

In what scheme? I don't know jet. But it could be a Indian 27.

 

Cheers,

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Not a plane that I know much about - but have these kits:

Academy MiG-23,  no kit decals - so a clean sheet really.

Academy-Mi-G23.jpg

Complimented by this MiG-27.  Half-price in the Ian Allen (Birmingham) closing down sale.

Zvezda-Mi-G27.jpg

I'm in.

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