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Tamiya 1/35 Challenger 1


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Well, if everyone else is having multiple projects on the go why can't I?

 

As the Grant is nearing completion but at the very slow stage of waiting for figures and stowage to be prepared and fitted etc thought I'd have a go at something a little different, for me at least. 

 

It's the old Tamiya Challenger 1, plan is to do a green or a green and black one, poss UK based, as I remember from the Lulworth ranges mid to late 80s. In the day you could see Chieftains, Challenger 1, Scimitars and probably Scorpians too, don't think you can do it anymore, alas, as the last time I passed the small rough carpark had gone. You could park behind the tanks and from what was a relatively close range and watch them practice against the targets on the opposite hill side, could it have been Cat point?? (If I'm wrong about name or if anyone else remembers please shout as it was 30+yrs ago). In the days before ear defenders, I can confirm an hour spent watching was enough to give a thumping headache! (Was good though, those 120mm guns don't half make a noise!)

 

Guess I'm going to have to at least scratch build a green and a red flag to mount on the turret.

 

Anyway at present I have one kit, one reference book and a sheet of etch mesh to replace the nylon stuff supplied.

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If anyone has any suggestions, advice or modifications/improvements that can be made please shout.

 

Minimal work done so far, wheels assembled and lower hull being prepared.

 

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Good luck, thanks for looking.

Darryl 

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I built one of these a few years ago, the build is up here somewhere but it might suffer from the photobucket blurring issue. 
 

 

 

Some pointers within the build that might be useful.

 

HTH

 

Dan 

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Like the Challenger series of tanks I'll join in if I may.

If you're doing a UK based vehicle it's unlikely to have the upgraded armour fitted, normally just the the standard side plates and no other add-on's. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will point it out!

 

      Stay safe                 Roger

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Got the same kit on the go as well 👍 The only things I am going to add are fruil tracks,alter the rear turret bin add anti slip and tie downs. Enjoy 😀 

Ivan

Edited by ivan-o
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22 hours ago, Dads203 said:

I built one of these a few years ago, the build is up here somewhere but it might suffer from the photobucket blurring issue. 
 

 

 

Some pointers within the build that might be useful.

 

HTH

 

Dan 

Thanks Dan much appreciated, I'll have a good luck and see what I can do.

 

Cheers

Darryl 

 

22 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

Like the Challenger series of tanks I'll join in if I may.

If you're doing a UK based vehicle it's unlikely to have the upgraded armour fitted, normally just the the standard side plates and no other add-on's. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will point it out!

 

      Stay safe                 Roger

Hi Roger, always welcome, yes my thinking too, if memory serves, plain side plates, no fuel drums on back, could be wrong though. Not even sure if mid eighties would be a Mk2 or mk3? I've read the later ones changed the exhausts from slanted outwards to upright.

 

Cheers

Darryl 

 

13 hours ago, ivan-o said:

Got the same kit on the go as well 👍 The only things I am going to add are fruil tracks,alter the rear turret bin add anti slip and tie downs. Enjoy 😀 

Ivan

Hi Ivan, did consider Fruils but they dont come cheap.. Rear turret bin you say? 

Lots to look into, there's lots of tie downs arnt there....:drunk:

Have you done a WIP for yours?

 

Thanks for the pointers.

 

Cheers 

Darryl 

 

14 minutes ago, Vaastav said:

May I sit in the corner? 

Of course, the more the better!

 

Cheers

Darryl 

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1 hour ago, Jasper dog said:

I've read the later ones changed the exhausts from slanted outwards to upright.

 

From memory I don't think the Challenger exhausts were ever changed, there was an add-on to the exhaust outlet which ran along the side to the rear of the vehicle in order to try and put the heat signature behind the vehicle instead of straight out the sides. See Gulf war Chally's or maybe someone like Dan @Dads203 can clarify.

 

   Stay safe           Roger

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Chally 2 had the long Thermal reduction exhaust system but the Chally 1 did go through a modification on the angle of the Louvres. I think you get the updated exhaust in the Tamiya kit as well as the early. Best check references. 

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Hi Darryl no WIP on mine it won’t be far off OOB!

49845409897_0b06c7a0b8_c_d.jpg

Just anti slip added

 

49845603188_2e92b062a5_c_d.jpg
 

the fruils, to be honest I got the kit off the web and the tracks were included else I might have not bothered.

the book you have should give you lots of pointers 😀

Good luck and I will follow with interest.

 

Ivan

Edited by ivan-o
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The fruil tracks are excellent and really add something of you leave one of the bazooka plates off.

 

just one thing about UK based tanks. They were all over IRR Green. The black was painted on in Germany, sand in BATUS Etc.

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29 minutes ago, Scimitar F1 said:

The fruil tracks are excellent and really add something of you leave one of the bazooka plates off.

 

just one thing about UK based tanks. They were all over IRR Green. The black was painted on in Germany, sand in BATUS Etc.

I agree totally, they look really good on the finished build.  I think the chally 1 looks great without skirts on. 

My track is a little slack but I did put the skirts on. 

 

P1020806

 

P1020807

 

P1020809

 

 

Dan 

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11 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

From memory I don't think the Challenger exhausts were ever changed, there was an add-on to the exhaust outlet which ran along the side to the rear of the vehicle in order to try and put the heat signature behind the vehicle instead of straight out the sides. See Gulf war Chally's or maybe someone like Dan @Dads203 can clarify.

 

   Stay safe           Roger

 

11 hours ago, Dads203 said:

Chally 2 had the long Thermal reduction exhaust system but the Chally 1 did go through a modification on the angle of the Louvres. I think you get the updated exhaust in the Tamiya kit as well as the early. Best check references. 

From what I read recently and can't find again, typical, pretty sure I haven't imagined it but, could be wrong.... (nothing like covering your back). The angled louvres where replaced with straight, the advantages being, less burn injuries to the unsuspecting from placing hands on surrounding area, and a more efficient smoke screen. Now I could be wrong, it was one source that I haven't been able to find again, however I think the kit provides both types, part a29??

 

Thanks again

Darryl 

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8 hours ago, FrancisGL said:

Hi Darryl,

excellent choice, personally I like this version of the model, it still looks like a "tank" ... lol
It sure will look great. Nice progress.
Cheers and TC
Francis 

Thanks Francis, had thought of doing a Chieftain but as yours and a least one other has been done recently decided to do this instead. 

 

Cheers

Darryl 

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2 hours ago, ivan-o said:

Hi Darryl no WIP on mine it won’t be far off OOB!

 

Just anti slip added

 

 

the fruils, to be honest I got the kit off the web and the tracks were included else I might have not bothered.

the book you have should give you lots of pointers 😀

Good luck and I will follow with interest.

 

Ivan

Hi Ivan, that anti slip looks really good, dare I ask, what did you use?

 

Sometimes you can have too much reference material, books, just ordered another, Dan's build, internet etc.... oob does have an appeal. :hmmm: :winkgrin:

 

Looking forward to seeing yours finished. 

 

Cheers

 

2 hours ago, Scimitar F1 said:

The fruil tracks are excellent and really add something of you leave one of the bazooka plates off.

 

just one thing about UK based tanks. They were all over IRR Green. The black was painted on in Germany, sand in BATUS Etc.

Hi, thanks for the pointer re' colour makes painting easier!

 

As has been said, the Fruils look great, just that they cost more than the kit itself!

 

Cheers

Darryl 

 

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May I give some additional info on the exhausts?

The first batch of Challengers (I'm guessing approximately 70) were put into service with with, essentially, no shroud - the exhaust gasses just exited straight upwards through a slatted grate. From 70-ish onwards they were fitted with the shroud which threw the gasses out to sides of the vehicle. 

The primary reason for the change was indeed because of excessive heat, but not as as previously been mentioned because of risk of burn injuries to the crews. When Challenger was first issued the specified stowage locations specifically specified that the 2 jerrycan holders on the hull rear would be for oil cans and the ones on the turret rear (on the turret basket) would be for water cans. Makes perfect sense - you'd want the water jerry cans near the crew members at all times and the oil cans near the engine at all times. All well and good except that the water cans are made of plastic and when the turret is traversed off left or right by a few degrees (or several mils!) and the engine is running, those damn exhausts chuck out a heck of a lot of heat right under those plastic jerry cans, resulting in melted cans. The solution is simply to put the oil cans on the turret rear and the water cans on the hull rear and....then clean off tons of dirt from the water cans every time you need to refill the internal water tank, or have a wash. Or fit big ol'exhaust shrouds to divert the hot gasses away from the turret rear stowage location so you can put the plastic cans there gain.

I suspect another reason for fitting those shrouds was to protect the turbochargers, which sit just a few inches inboard of the exhausts and, if not sufficiently protected, are vulnerable to the ingestion of rain and other stuff when they're not running. With the original exaust coverings you could put the powder from a smoke pot directly into the exhaust and then when the engine started the powder would ignite and give you a lovely big plume of orange smoke. Wouldn't be able to do that with the modifed exhausts :(

I've read that the actual reason for fitting the shrouds was to eliminate the 'V' shaped plume of exhaust smoke, as a means of disguising the tank's presence/ hiding its location. I don't buy that one.  It may be a very minor beneficiary side-effect of the above but I can't see it as a primary reason for fitting them. 

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1 hour ago, Dads203 said:

One book worth considering is the Haynes manual on the Challenger 1, some really useful pictures in the book. I think I paid £7 for my copy.

 

:thumbsup:

The annoying thing is...... I have/had the book, foolishly lent it to the old fella and hey-ho, lock down! :doh:

 

The pics of your Challenger look great, btw.

Working my way through your WIP, 4 pages in, 21 to go....

 

 

1 hour ago, Cheesey153 said:

May I give some additional info on the exhausts?

The first batch of Challengers (I'm guessing approximately 70) were put into service with with, essentially, no shroud - the exhaust gasses just exited straight upwards through a slatted grate. From 70-ish onwards they were fitted with the shroud which threw the gasses out to sides of the vehicle. 

The primary reason for the change was indeed because of excessive heat, but not as as previously been mentioned because of risk of burn injuries to the crews. When Challenger was first issued the specified stowage locations specifically specified that the 2 jerrycan holders on the hull rear would be for oil cans and the ones on the turret rear (on the turret basket) would be for water cans. Makes perfect sense - you'd want the water jerry cans near the crew members at all times and the oil cans near the engine at all times. All well and good except that the water cans are made of plastic and when the turret is traversed off left or right by a few degrees (or several mils!) and the engine is running, those damn exhausts chuck out a heck of a lot of heat right under those plastic jerry cans, resulting in melted cans. The solution is simply to put the oil cans on the turret rear and the water cans on the hull rear and....then clean off tons of dirt from the water cans every time you need to refill the internal water tank, or have a wash. Or fit big ol'exhaust shrouds to divert the hot gasses away from the turret rear stowage location so you can put the plastic cans there gain.

I suspect another reason for fitting those shrouds was to protect the turbochargers, which sit just a few inches inboard of the exhausts and, if not sufficiently protected, are vulnerable to the ingestion of rain and other stuff when they're not running. With the original exaust coverings you could put the powder from a smoke pot directly into the exhaust and then when the engine started the powder would ignite and give you a lovely big plume of orange smoke. Wouldn't be able to do that with the modifed exhausts :(

I've read that the actual reason for fitting the shrouds was to eliminate the 'V' shaped plume of exhaust smoke, as a means of disguising the tank's presence/ hiding its location. I don't buy that one.  It may be a very minor beneficiary side-effect of the above but I can't see it as a primary reason for fitting them. 

That's a comprehensive answer, very much appreciated.

 

Thanks! 

 

 

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 that anti slip looks really good, dare I ask, what did you use?
 

Not hard to do, I use fine pumice powder.

Paint a section at a time,any enamel works,

While still wet sprinkle on the powder don’t skimp on it the powder only sticks to the paint.I do it through a small tea strainer😀

Give it a shake onto some paper or such to retrieve the excess and when dry give it a brush over with a soft brush. The other half’s old makeup brush works for me.

This is only my method I am sure others have their favourite way.

HTH 

Ivan

 

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Thanks Ivan, sounds promising, I'd been wondering the best way to do it.

Don't want it too course, as you might find on a Merkava for example. 

 

Cheers

Darryl 

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Should be ok Darryl, fine is the smallest powder if you wanted it courser you could go up to medium etc.


 

49868878793_a5aab9bba4_k_d.jpg

 

under paint

Ivan

Edited by ivan-o
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  • 2 weeks later...

Very little time of late unfortunately but haven't been idle.

 

Thanks  ivan-o for the tip re the anti slip, I've some fine pummice powder to experiment with, the eduard set has arrived, had to have the fuel cap tops at least.. along with a pack of plastic card and rod from Slaters, thanks John for the link. 

 

Started with the turret, using/pinching as much Info I could from Dan's build and various reference books, I've assembled the basic shell. Trimming off lumps of plastic pretending to be handles planning to replace with wire.

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Warning, the next bit isn't pretty, any keen, accomplished, talented scratch builders I apologise now. Never scratch built anything like this before modelling wise, always been a from the box or add resin, etch detail sort of modeller. (My excuse anyway).

 

The rear storage box couldn't be more wrong if it tried. Thought about replacing the lid but it's still the wrong shape and the hinges are in entirely the wrong place.

 

So....

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The actual box is more "square" then Tamiya provides and the hinges are on the wrong side, should be hinged at the back, what Tamiya looked at I've no idea!

I've still to create handles and straps etc for it but you get the idea. However why doesn't Eduard or Tamiya provide a diamond mesh panel to go the opening on the top? 

As luck would have it found an old filter from goodness knows where that I'll cut up to create one.

Question is, does the finess of the Tamiya part outway the clumsiness of the homemade one, even though shape-wise it's closer to the mark?

 

Thanks for looking

Darryl 

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