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Whitley V upperwing roundel size


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Hi all - does anyone know what size "B" type roundel was applied to the Whitley V? I am talking about mid- to late-production aircraft where a "B-type" was applied in the factory rather than painted at squadron level over an earlier "A1-type".

 

Airfix supply a decal with the 1/72nd kit which scales to 100 inches. I am using Xtradecals to represent all-black T4131 of 78 Squadron - which confusingly shows a roundel of about 100 inches on the decal artwork but supplies a decal for a 75 inch roundel! The two famous photos of T4131 in the RAF Museum collection are from underneath - so no help. So are the vast majority of other photos of Whitleys! The few I can find showing the upperwing roundel seem to suggest something closer to 75 inches, or intermediate!

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Cheers. Yeah I've got a copy of that chart (it's reproduced in the newer Xtradecal sheet). I'm slightly suspicious of them as I've found them to be wrong (or at least oversimplistic) on at least one occasion before.

I think this photo shows 75-inch roundels:

Whitley_Web-2.jpg

 

However I'm not so sure about this one! You can't see the aileron line thanks to the black scheme but to my eyes these come further back along the wing chord. Maybe both sizes were painted? This was the era of non standard markings, after all.

 

60708092_p.jpg

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RAF Bomber Command, Vol 1, Goulding and Moyes, gives the upper-wing diameter when converted from A1, as 75 inches but when applied as B in the factory as 84 inches. This relates to Whitley's coming put of the factory in 1939, so possibly it could have changed later.

 

Paul 

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Paul,

 

Many thanks - I was beginning to suspect that most of the photos I was looking at (except where a Type A1 has clearly been overpainted) were a size intermediate between 75 and 100 inches. Think I'll go for 84. Until someone produces a topside photos of T4131 nobody can prove me wrong!

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T4131 has always been a 'bucket list' modelling subject of mine since I found a mint copy and purchased Goulding & Moyes 'RAF Bomber Command, Vol 2'. 

Amongst the many colour paintings and profiles with this publication is artwork of this very same aircraft clearly showing the upper surfaces. Now I take it that this is an artists impression and 'hopefully' based on photographic evidence, however the upper wing roundels are depicted quite small and possibly of the 75" variety? Moyes also illustrates the zinc / green de-icing boots on all leading edges (wings, hori stabs, vertical fins) however I'm yet to convince myself that the latter existed from the two known photographs of this subject aircraft. Anyway, probably not much help, however just thought I'd add this to the puzzling piece. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

 

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19 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Moyes also illustrates the zinc / green de-icing boots on all leading edges

Dave,

 

Would that be the Kilfrost anti-icing paste that was also applied to Halifaxes and other multi-engined aircraft? IIRC, it was a greenish-yellow in color.

Mike

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I've never seen the de-icing paste in person - well, who has?  I'm not that old - but have always thought it was a sort of mustard colour.  Not French's but darker, maybe a Grey Poupon or Maille shade.  I sure would like to see the shade nailed down.

 

OK, time for lunch.

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7 hours ago, RJP said:

Not French's but darker, maybe a Grey Poupon or Maille shade.

For some strange reason, all of a sudden I have a craving for a ham and cheese on rye sandwich! :giggle:

Mike

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7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Dave,

Would that be the Kilfrost anti-icing paste that was also applied to Halifaxes and other multi-engined aircraft? IIRC, it was a greenish-yellow in color.

Mike

That's the stuff.. yes. greenish-yellow, a lovely grinch like colour! 

 

7 hours ago, RJP said:

I've never seen the de-icing paste in person - well, who has?  I'm not that old - but have always thought it was a sort of mustard colour. 

Mustard comes in many flavours, however I quite like the greenish tinge shown in the artwork. It might not be 100% right, however I've got more chance of getting this right then replicating the oil stained weathering that's clearly shown in the photos. 

 

5 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The photos could have been taken before the paste was applied.  Both presentations are likely to have been correct at some time.

True, however the wing de-icing paste is clearly shown and suspect it would be wise to apply it to the tail leading edges as well. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

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I don't recall seeing signs of paste on the tailplane, but maybe just haven't looked.  The tailplane should be in free air for best effect, but many photos show that oil splatters can spread over the tailplane, so we can assume that it is receiving some benefit from the warmer air behind the engines.  It simply may be that tailplane de-icing was not generally a serious problem?

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Thanks everyone! I went for 84 inch roundels in the end- they were already on and setting as @Rabbit Leader made his post. The anti-icing paste (never knew it was called "Kilfrost" - what a wonderful trade name!) is on my radar- I think I will mask off the leading edge strip and drybrush quite heavily along the airflow lines to get the streaky effect. Thanks for the colour pointers, I will get mixing and see what I come up with!

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