Phantom fgr.2 XV422

[davebruce]

  Hi all you Phantom experts, I'm currently working on Airfix' 1/72 FGR.2  and plan to have it in the 19Sqn Jag killer livery and  have a question or two. The decals are from Xtradecal (X72295). 

 

1. Could anyone confirm the vertical stabiliser colour as I'm seeing different things in different reference pics. Is it med sea grey, barley grey or another colour altogether. 

 

2. Are the wings all one colour or they 2 tone grey, and does the top colour run to the underside of the leading edge. 

 

Hope you can help and thanks in advance 

 

Dave.

 

 

[Hook]

Inner upper wings were Medium Sea Grey, with the outer panels and vertical stab in Barley / Camouflage Grey. The wing colours wrapped around the leading edge of the wing onto the Light Aircraft Grey bottom.

 

Edit: the upper colours protruded about four inches on the lower surfaces.

 

HTH,

 

Andre

Edited May 1, 2020 by Hook

[Phone Phixer]

Hi.

The fin was barley grey.

The official scheme was med sea grey on the inner wing panels and barley grey on the outer wings. But all of us on here that worked on grey Phantoms say it was never that noticeable in real life. What with paint fading and oil/boot marks it all became very similar.

Just add a small amount of a darker grey to the barley grey for the inner wing panels, it will then vary the tone.

Yes the upper colour did wrap around slightly to meet the light aircraft grey.

[davebruce]

Thanks for confirming chaps. So that doesn't change no matter what sqn had then in that colour, apart from the tail on some am I right?

[Hook]

Yes, this was the basic standard scheme throughout the fleet.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Duncan B]

20 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

 

The official scheme was med sea grey on the inner wing panels and barley grey on the outer wings. But all of us on here that worked on grey Phantoms say it was never that noticeable in real life. What with paint fading and oil/boot marks it all became very similar.

 

Very true, and one of the reasons I am struggling to complete an F-4 in the grey scheme because I can't get the wings to match my memory of them!

 

Duncan B

[sloegin57]

One of 43's finest - just add dirt, oil, boot marks, painters having a go :-

 

[Phantom Phixer]

Hello Dave

 

It was 92sqn that killed the Jag and the aircraft that did it was in grey/green uppers and light grey undersides.  After the kerfuffle died down a dayglo Jag was slapped on the port side fuselage just below the fixed screen.  I'm afraid I can't remember the serial number or tail code.

 

Phixer

[Richard E]

21 minutes ago, Phantom Phixer said:

Hello Dave

 

It was 92sqn that killed the Jag and the aircraft that did it was in grey/green uppers and light grey undersides.  After the kerfuffle died down a dayglo Jag was slapped on the port side fuselage just below the fixed screen.  I'm afraid I can't remember the serial number or tail code.

 

Phixer

The unfortunate Jaguar was 14 Squadron's XX963 and was probably coded AL

[71chally]

49 minutes ago, Phantom Phixer said:

It was 92sqn that killed the Jag and the aircraft that did it was in grey/green uppers and light grey undersides.  After the kerfuffle died down a dayglo Jag was slapped on the port side fuselage just below the fixed screen.  I'm afraid I can't remember the serial number or tail code.

It's in the thread title, XV422, it was coded O of 92 Sqn, and in the overall grey scheme.

A pic of it in 1981 (looking very dirty, almost like Dennis' pic) shows no squadron 'Battenberg' applied on the fin top RWR, but a shot in 1983 does.

 

Richard is right, the Jag was coded AL.

 

great piece from the Jag pilot, Steve Griggs, here, https://theaviationgeekclub.com/former-raf-jaguar-pilot-tells-the-story-of-when-he-was-shot-down-by-a-raf-phantom-interceptor/

 

 

One thing to be wary of, there is a close up shot of XV422's port intake wearing the 'Jag kill' marking, however this picture comes from a later time when it was with 56 Squadron, that's not to say that the marking was applied before but doesn't appear in pictures taken in the '80s.

 

[Phone Phixer]

13 hours ago, Phantom Phixer said:

Hello Dave

 

It was 92sqn that killed the Jag and the aircraft that did it was in grey/green uppers and light grey undersides.  After the kerfuffle died down a dayglo Jag was slapped on the port side fuselage just below the fixed screen.  I'm afraid I can't remember the serial number or tail code.

 

Phixer

XV422 was a 92 Sqn jet when it did the dirty deed. After going away on major servicing it returned to Wildenrath and was given to 19(F) Sqn with the tail code J. Hense forth to be known as "Juliet the Jag Killer".

During the ACMI det to Deci in the summer of 1988 it briefly got some tail art with this name, that is the markings Dave is doing.

Despite that being in the middle of my tour on 19(F), I missed seeing it and all the summer detachments in 88 as I was "enjoying" a winter in the Falklands on 23 Sqn.

 

Rob.

[Phantom Phixer]

Rob/Dave

Apologies for confusing the issue.  I'd left 92sqn and Wildenrath before XV422 moved on and became a 19sqn grey goose, I wasn't aware of any subsequent Jag Killer tail art.  My memories of that fateful day are now over 30 years old and a little hazy in parts, I can recall HAS 54 as Oscar's lair, and I remember the nose u/c door of "AL" taking pride of place on the crew room wall.  It's a long time ago now, but the older I get the better I was.😉

The early 80's in RAFG were halcyon days with many various aircraft types visiting the squadron: F100's, F104's, Mirages, to name a few, but I guess that should form the basis of another thread on the forum.

 

Has anyone got a picture of Juliet the Jag Killer?

 

Chris

[Jabba]

There is a good article about this incident in the "British Phantoms" magazine special/book by Key Publications in association with Aeroplane.

[xvtonker]

On 5/7/2020 at 12:17 PM, Richard E said:

The unfortunate Jaguar was 14 Squadron's XX963 and was probably coded AL

I was the Sergeant line controller on 14 Sqn that morning. Our shift finished at 12:00 and didn't come in again until 12:00 the next day. Imagine the shock when we heard that AL's form 700 had been impounded following the shootdown. At a beer call one Friday after the event a Belgian military air traffic controller told us that his response was 'who needs the Russians when the RAF are shooting down each other!!!'

XVTonker

[LimaOperator]

Hi there, I‘m new back to modelling after a good few years break and currently planning my next build or two while I finish off a couple Spits & Mustang that I’ve broken myself back in with.

 

Anyway, I’d been looking into building a model of XV422 around the time of the fateful kill but am struggling to confirm the colour scheme she wore then. Reading the posts above one person says grey/green and another says all over grey.

 

Ive tried looking for pics & although I have a couple of her, they are a few years before (With a different squadron) & after the actual event so don’t help with which scheme she wore at the time. Can the good people confirm &/or point me in the direction of any pics around the time in question.

[Richard E]

3 hours ago, LimaOperator said:

Hi there, I‘m new back to modelling after a good few years break and currently planning my next build or two while I finish off a couple Spits & Mustang that I’ve broken myself back in with.

 

Anyway, I’d been looking into building a model of XV422 around the time of the fateful kill but am struggling to confirm the colour scheme she wore then. Reading the posts above one person says grey/green and another says all over grey.

 

Ive tried looking for pics & although I have a couple of her, they are a few years before (With a different squadron) & after the actual event so don’t help with which scheme she wore at the time. Can the good people confirm &/or point me in the direction of any pics around the time in question.

XV422/O in 92 Squadron's markings in the grey colour scheme is one of the options on Modeldecal's sheet number 65: the sheet's instructions also include a photograph of the aircraft in this scheme dated 1981, the same aircraft wearing the 19 Squadron "Jag Killer" colours which @Phone Phixer mentioned is also included in Xtradecal's sheet X72295.  Unfortunately the Modeldecal sheet isn't one of those which Hannants are still holding in stock but you might be able to source an example from the well known auction site.

 

Off topic: it looks like Dick Ward might have been trying to create a sheet of noteworthy RAF Phantoms as sheet 65 also includes the markings for 111 Squadron's FG Mk.1 XV589/P which crashed at RAF Alconbury on 3 June 1980 when its crew ejected after its radome opened in flight.   

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Richard E

[Max Headroom]

If it helps here is the Aeroguide for the FG2/FGR2 which has a painting guide for the grey birds.

 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Aeroguide/AeroGuide-13-McDonnell

 

HTH

 

Trevor

[LimaOperator]

4 hours ago, Richard E said:

XV422/O in 92 Squadron's markings in the grey colour scheme is one of the options on Modeldecal's sheet number 65: the sheet's instructions also include a photograph of the aircraft in this scheme dated 1981,

 

 

Thanks for that Richard, if the photo is dated 1981 then it confirms she was re-painted into the all grey scheme before the Jag shoot down. A combination of the serials from the Xtradecal set you mention and the kit decals from Airfix’s FGR.2 should pretty much cover XV422 as she was in May ‘82 then.

 

Next question then, which Sidewinder would come off the rails 1st on a Phantom? Is it always the same one 1st or would it be down to which station the pilot selected?

 

[Hook]

25 minutes ago, LimaOperator said:

A combination of the serials from the Xtradecal set you mention

I have this set in the Decal Dungeon which also features XV422:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airdoc-72007-british-phantoms-fgr2-f-4m-raf-in-germany--210857

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Phone Phixer]

40 minutes ago, LimaOperator said:

Next question then, which Sidewinder would come off the rails 1st on a Phantom? Is it always the same one 1st or would it be down to which station the pilot selected?

The firing sequence set into the system was left outer, right outer, left inner, right inner. But the pilot could cycle through all 4 Sidewinders to select the one of his choice.

[LimaOperator]

Ah, all good stuff. I now have my plan for a Phantom with only the 3 Sidewinders left on it more or less sorted. 

 

Just have to order a few bits, now where did the wife hide that credit card ......

[JagRigger]

It was the done thing at one stage for people leaving our section at Coltishall to get a model Jaguar, made by one of a few model makers in the hangar. One colleague, an ex Phantom man threatened me it'd get a test flight if I built him a 'pussycat'. So I did a two ship - the two above of course. He quite appreciated that I think !

[Phone Phixer]

14 hours ago, JagRigger said:

It was the done thing at one stage for people leaving our section at Coltishall to get a model Jaguar, made by one of a few model makers in the hangar. One colleague, an ex Phantom man threatened me it'd get a test flight if I built him a 'pussycat'. So I did a two ship - the two above of course. He quite appreciated that I think !

Hmmmm. Would that have been Mr Daniels, by any chance??

[JagRigger]

8 hours ago, Phone Phixer said:

Hmmmm. Would that have been Mr Daniels, by any chance??

Good guess !

 

[Hook]

While on the subject, I knew I had an article about the incident somewhere - found it!

 

It's in "British Phantoms: a special tribute to a Cold War legend", Key Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 912205 06 6, p.64 - 69. A nice pic of the unlucky Jaguar is supplied as well. 

 

Happy hunting!