Designing Decals - Vulcans!

[Adam Poultney]

I don't really know which section to put this under, so I'm just going to put it in WIP Aircraft. They are decals for aircraft so this kinda makes sense?

 

So...... Recently I've been building a 1/144 Trumpeter Vulcan and a 1/200 Cyberhobby/Dragon Vulcan and have come across a bit of a problem with decals for these. I wanted to do an anti flash white Vulcan with the trumpeter one, it doesn't come with decals for that scheme so off I went to browse around to find a nice aftermarket set and well.... No sets of pale roundels or fin flashes in that scale. There are decal sets with a lot more in that I don't need which have them, but I just want those bits as I have the rest. So I asked on here if I missed anything and it seems I didn't.... Someone suggested printing my own. Although this won't be much use for my Trumpeter one because I want to get that off the desk soon to make room for other projects, I decided hey why not give it a shot.I have a suitable inkjet printer, no one does a set in 1/144 of just the roundels, fin flashes and serials, so why not.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_roundels <-- this is useful

 

I can't print white but have got a thing somewhere that can cut all sorts of shapes in various sizes, so if I can get it cutting circles and rectangles of the right size I can make masks to paint a white background with when I do full shade roundels (obviously this won't be needed with pale shade which goes on white anyway). 

First thing is to know the sizes of the roundels. Vulcans had 84" roundels on the wings and 54" roundels on the fuselage. The ratio of the diameter of each band of colour was 3:2:1, so that made the wing ones 84", 56" and 28" bands, the fuselage ones are therefore 54", 36" and 18".  Bit of simple maths to convert, plugged it into a spreadsheet and I had the correct sizes which I can hopefully print accurately.
 

 

Not long later I had some roundels made and printed on normal paper as a proof of concept that my printer can print the colour right and I can get the size accurate. They look perfect size and the colour looks right to me. Can't exactly measure with digital calipers but they look right. These ones in 1/144 scale should be 1.482cm(3dp) which converts to 84"

 

This is pretty much what the design process looks like.... Shapes, recolour, resize. Things with curves in other than basic circles are harder but I should be able to manage. 

 

Fin flashes are 36" wide and 24" tall, with colour bands in a 1:1:1 ratio. Each band is 12" across, this was simply rescaled and I had the fin flashes done. So far I've got roundels in both sizes, fin flashes and the X, H, L, 0 and 1 done in the correct font. Resizing these is easy, I printed them in 1/72 scale as well so I could compare to decals in my folder full of V force spares (yes I have a folder for all my V Force stuff). If I get to printing I will certainly be doing a set in 1/72, 1/144 and 1/200 for each scale plastic Vulcan kits are available in, and also doing them in full shade colours, which very early examples of seemed to be more bright and vivid than later ones (particularly on white and silver painted Vulcan B1s). It's an excuse to build lots of Vulcans!

So here it is so far:

Here you can see my size roundels are pretty much in agreement with the Xtradecal ones for a Victor (also 84" and 56"), and Airfix's ones seem to be too small (I measured them when I built my second 1/72 Airfix Victor and I think they are about 5 scale inches short iirc)

Fin flashes look about the right size compared to the Fündekal set.

 

The wing roundels are the same size, but my fuselage roundels are bigger. I think the Fündekal ones are 48", 6 scale inches small so that makes my ones approximately correct.

 

Now the question is where do I get good decal paper from, and how do I print half decent decals?

Edited April 30, 2020 by Adam Poultney

[BritJet]

I used to use Experts Choice decal paper that came in packs of three but they seem difficult to get now and the single sheet packs work out quite expensive. I now get my paper from Amazon - something like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07T4PXKXF/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzNUlQRkhVS0c2WkFKJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTA2OTg3UEdGUVA1M0tBSjdFJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1Mjk3Mjc4WDRKQkg5TUNHQTEmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9ocXBfc2hhcmVkJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

Where you've got the XI HO L on your sheet, should the I be a J? You might want to have a look at using Inkscape (free!) for designing your artwork.

 

I've got a laser printer than can print white if you need anything you can't do any other way.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve

[Pin]

5 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

Now the question is where do I get good decal paper from, and how do I print half decent decals?

Laser or inkjet? 

 

Forget "expert choice" and all the paper that is supposed to be used to transfer images to ceramic jars, they are not suitable for modelling, way too thick

 

I tried many, the best laser decal paper I ordered from Australia, you would need "super thin" option: 

 

https://drdecalmrhyde.com.au/shop/super-thin-laser-waterslide-decal-paper/

 

 

They also produce inkjet but I haven't tried.

 

 

[andyf117]

Someone has a single Experts Choice sheet listed at the moment: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Experts-Choice-Clear-Decal-Film-For-Inkjet-Printer-215mm-x-280mm-Single-Sheet/283861337624?hash=item4217744618%3Ag%3AbNoAAOSw6VVeXicA&LH_Auction=1

 

I've used 'Mr Decal Paper' clear and white sheets for custom stuff for my Sea Kings - I have a laser printer, but there is an inkjet version: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Slide-Decal-Paper-A4-INKJET-Waterslide-Transfer-Paper-TEN-PACK-SIZES/181840164873?hash=item2a5684b809:m:mWYV0k2-KpXw6nP3N5Ll8Ug

Edited April 30, 2020 by andyf117

[Adam Poultney]

4 hours ago, BritJet said:

 

Where you've got the XI HO L on your sheet, should the I be a J? You might want to have a look at using Inkscape (free!) for designing your artwork.

The Serials so far are just an X, H, L, 1 and 0. Just to see if I could actually do them. For Vulcans I'll need XA, XH, XJ, XL and XM plus all the numbers. 

4 hours ago, BritJet said:

I've got a laser printer than can print white if you need anything you can't do any other way.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve

That would be appreciated, but I should be ok for now without white backings- these decals are for anti flash white vulcans so there should already be a good backing for them anyway. 

3 hours ago, Pin said:

Laser or inkjet? 

Inkjet

3 hours ago, Pin said:

 

Forget "expert choice" and all the paper that is supposed to be used to transfer images to ceramic jars, they are not suitable for modelling, way too thick

 

I tried many, the best laser decal paper I ordered from Australia, you would need "super thin" option: 

Good to know, don't see much chance of getting anything from Australia any time soon though given the current pandemic.

 

1 hour ago, andyf117 said:

Someone has a single Experts Choice sheet listed at the moment: 

I've used 'Mr Decal Paper' clear and white sheets for custom stuff for my Sea Kings - I have a laser printer, but there is an inkjet version: 

Thanks for the links 👍

[wavodavo]

Doesn't the Fundekals set have the anti flash white decals, including all the serials?

[Adam Poultney]

11 minutes ago, wavodavo said:

Doesn't the Fundekals set have the anti flash white decals, including all the serials?

Yep but they're a pain to get hold of and only have one set of each type of roundel. Bit expensive to buy one for each and every model I build that needs a given roundel type. The original goal of this was just too make Roundels and fin flashes to go with that set, but now I'm making the rest because..... Idk, I can?

I do have a set from them, which caters only to the vulcan B2. My decals I plan to have cater to all variants with pale roundels, including the Vulcan B1a. But no sqn badges as they're beyond what I know how to do. I'll give the cross of Lincoln in the size on the Vulcan B1 a try but that's all

Edited April 30, 2020 by Adam Poultney

[wavodavo]

1 hour ago, Adam Poultney said:

Yep but they're a pain to get hold of and only have one set of each type of roundel. Bit expensive to buy one for each and every model I build that needs a given roundel type. The original goal of this was just too make Roundels and fin flashes to go with that set, but now I'm making the rest because..... Idk, I can?

I do have a set from them, which caters only to the vulcan B2. My decals I plan to have cater to all variants with pale roundels, including the Vulcan B1a. But no sqn badges as they're beyond what I know how to do. I'll give the cross of Lincoln in the size on the Vulcan B1 a try but that's all

Ah, I see, fair enough.

[wavodavo]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FINELINE-DECALS-1-144-Tornado-GR-1-F-3-Buccaneer-75th-Anniversary-Vulcan-RAF/392782662021?hash=item5b73abc985:g:lJ4AAOSwSTFeq0Tq

 

These are the only anti flash squadron badges I've seen, I've bought these before.

[perdu]

I have used Mr Decal Paper for inkjets and found it to be thin enough to vanish 'in service'

 

If you intend printing serials you might like to add RAF-PW-ATH font to your font bank, it is available from several on line font suppliers

Some charge, mine didn't

 

RAF-PW-ATH prints in a normal manner in most drawing and text programs, unfortunately it isnt on the BM site font list so I will just post you a decal I did for my Sea Vixen as an example

 

For my Sea Vixen I wanted a whole wing serial rather than the bitsa and usually I print the pattern on ordinary copy paper to check for size and layout before I commit to costly 'Decal Paper'

 

You can see from the picture that I often print the font in various sizes to check its suitability

 

I think this was the Mr Decal Paper, used in this case to make US Marines markings for the CH-53

 

The font I used for this was USN-Stencil and I have RCAF and USAF font in Amarillo in the bank too

 

You can see from the above that thin decals that don't show are possible

I just use a Epson inkjet for this job

 

Hope it helps when you do your serials

 

[Dave Swindell]

Looks like your fine efforts have paid off Adam, Mark 1 are about to release exactly what you're looking for:-

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/DMK14481?result-token=GEE6F

[Adam Poultney]

On 01/05/2020 at 07:59, Dave Swindell said:

Looks like your fine efforts have paid off Adam, Mark 1 are about to release exactly what you're looking for:-

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/DMK14481?result-token=GEE6F

Well this thread is now redundant for 1/144. What I might do is continue regardless as I also want to do some in 1/200 for Dragon/Cyberhobby kits.

On that note can anyone recommend vanishes that work well for decal printing? 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Adam Poultney

[Dave Swindell]

2 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Well this thread is now redundant lol

Not at all! I'm sure you and others have learnt something about designing and printing decals and sizes required for Vulcan anti-flash roundels.

[Adam Poultney]

4 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Not at all! I'm sure you and others have learnt something about designing and printing decals and sizes required for Vulcan anti-flash roundels.

I have the roundel sizes, fin flash sizes and serial sizes on a set of Vulcan B1 drawings right in front of me on my desk

 

Also in an effort to persuade myself to buy more vulcans I started scratch building Vulcan B1 landing gear last night....

[wavodavo]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:59 AM, Dave Swindell said:

Looks like your fine efforts have paid off Adam, Mark 1 are about to release exactly what you're looking for:-

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/DMK14481?result-token=GEE6F

Beat me to it!

But also these

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PSL14423?result-token=zyF08

[Adam Poultney]

3 minutes ago, wavodavo said:

Beat me to it!

But also these

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PSL14423?result-token=zyF08

Wow typical eh as soon as I start work my ones not one but two decal sheets, including one that has decals the far better looking Vulcan B1, appear in 1/144... 

I knew the print scale ones existed in 1/72 but didn't see anything about 1/144 so got to be new. Oh well, like I need any more reasons to just buy a load more vulcans