Gremlin Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) Hi all I am working on several 1/72 fujimi and Airfix phantoms (FG.1 and FGR.2) and when reviewing the squadron options to be made, I have found that most of the available decals refer to the squadrons that were dedicated to QRA and air defense, since most of the attack ones passed to Jaguar in the late 70s and early 80s. So the query is, the current squadrons after migration to the jaguar of the attack ones, which weapons did they use? specifically those based in Germany? just air defense? or also ground attack? to see weapons and decals options. I am interested in a FGR.2 of the 92 Sqn, would it go with bombs and missiles or only air-air? Were the UK based squadrons only for Air Defense QRA? no one in attack role? I am grateful that you can help me to define well the versions to be assembled with the xtradecals and Air Doc decals. Cheers Edited April 30, 2020 by Gremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Air to air only, when looking at my references. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweeky Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 4x sidewinder 4x Sparrow 1 x suu gun x2 Sgt Fletcher's (fuel Tanks) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, tweeky said: 4x Sparrow Sky Flash would be more appropiate for the 80s timeframe. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent K Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Gremlin said: …….. I am interested in a FGR.2 of the 92 Sqn, would it go with bombs and missiles or only air-air? Were the UK based squadrons only for Air Defense QRA? no one in attack role? 92 along with 19 in RAFG were air defence squadrons so only carried air-to-air. Of the UK squadrons, yes there were strike and reconnaissance ones, 6, 41, 54 amongst others spring to mind before they went down the Jaguar route. Edited April 30, 2020 by Agent K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 The RAF FG.1s acquired from new (43 Sqn) were only ever used in the air defence role and I don't think any of the FG.1s had SUU Gun capability until roughly 1977. Certainly the FAA FG.1 s didn't have SUU Gun capability built in at the Factory (so I assume the ones that went directly to the RAF were the same as they were originally built for the FAA). Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat fingers Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Uk phantoms mid 80's air defence war fit was 4 winders, 4 sparrow/flash plus suu gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Fat fingers said: Uk phantoms mid 80's air defence war fit was 4 winders, 4 sparrow/flash plus suu gun. Sparrow was not used by the mid 80's Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Did they really not have any secondary ground attack role at least?? Or a nuclear one? Strange.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Duncan B said: The RAF FG.1s acquired from new (43 Sqn) were only ever used in the air defence role and I don't think any of the FG.1s had SUU Gun capability until roughly 1977. Certainly the FAA FG.1 s didn't have SUU Gun capability built in at the Factory (so I assume the ones that went directly to the RAF were the same as they were originally built for the FAA). Duncan B Cannot find which book it was in Duncan but that is very much what I came across recently explaining that the RAF FG.1 did not get the gun capability until the FGR.2 was re-roled and transferred to Air Defence squadrons although up over the chilly North Sea and beyond a centreline tank seemed to be the the QRA option. I do however recall a 43 Sqn. FG.1 static display airframe at a Leuchars Airshow in the late 1960s with a wealth of air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry around it including the gunpod and an EMI Recce Pod which might be the sort of thing that has caused confusion to some over the years. There is also a mention by Robert Prest (not his real name I believe) in his well known 'Phantom Pilot' written around the same time about carrying out a simulated gun attack on a ground target in a 43 Sqn. FG.1 but nothing to suggest that a gun was actually carried or that any other form of dirt moving was practiced. Cannot recall reading if air-to-ground gunnery was practiced by Phantom Air Defence crews post-1982 before a spell in the Falklands as I believe was later the norm with the Tornado F.3. Edited April 30, 2020 by Des 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 thanks for all information, I only found some pics of FGR.2 with recco pod and sneb rockets (after Jaguar transition of many attacks Sqdns). Nothing about Nuclear Role. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Martin Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Find the AirDoc books of the British Phantoms - its all in there. PM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat fingers Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I was loading sparrows in 85/86 on 56 sqn at Wattisham. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Gremlin said: thanks for all information, I only found some pics of FGR.2 with recco pod and sneb rockets (after Jaguar transition of many attacks Sqdns). Nothing about Nuclear Role. The EMI reconnaissance pod disappeared with the strike squadrons, only 2 Sqn (RAFG) and 41 Sqn (UK) used them operationally. These transferred to the Jaguar, equipped with its own pod, in late 1974 and 1976. The nuclear strike role transferred in the same time frame, 1974 to 1976. To your earlier question, 92 Sqn were only ever an Air Defence/Interceptor unit with the Phantom, along with 19 Sqn they took over the role in RAFG from the Lightning in 1977. In short the Phantom was Air Defence / Interceptor only from 1976. There are plenty of decal options out there for the strike and reccon Phantoms, even some of the kits themselves feature them. Edit, hope this helps regarding the timeline of RAF Phantom use, Phantom FG.1 & FGR.2 Squadrons Chart by James Thomas, on Flickr Edited May 1, 2020 by 71chally 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 11 hours ago, Gremlin said: thanks for all information, I only found some pics of FGR.2 with recco pod and sneb rockets (after Jaguar transition of many attacks Sqdns). Nothing about Nuclear Role. Cheers It would be hard to maintain a nuclear role as the nuclear wiring system would have to be re certified on a regular basis, expensive, time consuming and hard to justify on an air defence aircraft. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Selwyn said: It would be hard to maintain a nuclear role as the nuclear wiring system would have to be re certified on a regular basis, expensive, time consuming and hard to justify on an air defence aircraft. Plus, with a plethora of strike Tornado GR.1s available... Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) On 4/30/2020 at 3:15 AM, Gremlin said: Hi all I am working on several 1/72 fujimi and Airfix phantoms (FG.1 and FGR.2) and when reviewing the squadron options to be made, I have found that most of the available decals refer to the squadrons that were dedicated to QRA and air defense, Cheers A good source for all of the attack/strike UK Phantom squadron markings is Modeldecal who covered them all at some point when the squadrons were actually operational although Sheet 94 returned to 6/14/17/31 Sqns. at a much later date and although now long out of production Hannants in the UK is among stockists who still have some and they are usually widely available on eBay etc. at reasonable prices. Squadrons in the Strike/Attack/Reconnaissance role were - FGR.2 ; 2 , 6 , 14 , 17 , 31 , 41 , 54 , 228 OCU/64 (R) trained crews for that role but may only have routinely carried CBLS , only the Fleet Air Arm would have carried attack weaponry on the FG.1. A discussion on the above UK Phantom Squadrons with a nuclear role can be found at - Any attack weapons other than the centreline gunpod would have been an aberration on the Air Defence squadrons - FGR.2 ;19 , 23 , 29 , 56 , 74 , 92 , 111 (early), later years of 228 OCU/64(R) , 1435 Flt. FG.1; 43 and 111 (later). Edited May 1, 2020 by Des 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 17 hours ago, Des said: I do however recall a 43 Sqn. FG.1 static display airframe at a Leuchars Airshow in the late 1960s with a wealth of air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry around it including the gunpod and an EMI Recce Pod which might be the sort of thing that has caused confusion to some over the years. There is also a mention by Robert Prest (not his real name I believe) in his well known 'Phantom Pilot' written around the same time about carrying out a simulated gun attack on a ground target in a 43 Sqn. FG.1 but nothing to suggest that a gun was actually carried or that any other form of dirt moving was practiced. That may well have been FGR.2 XT902, which I think was a twinsticker which was on loan to 43Sqdn in 1969 and on display on the Open day 20/9/69 when I was on set there. HTH Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 According to the excellent Double Ugly two-volume British Phantoms, Sky Flash entered service in 1978, with Sparrow remaining in stocks for 'several years afterwards' (vol.2 p.68). In terms of QRA fit, RAF Germany air defence Phantoms carried SUU-23/A on the centreline, but UK-based QRA aircraft carried the centreline 600-gal tank (vol.2 p.68). The first firing of the SUU-23/A from an RAF FG.1 was made on 15 October 1975 (vol.1 p.82). The Robert Prest book is entitled F-4 Phantom: A Pilot's Story. If you can get hold of a copy, read it. To my mind it is one of the finest books on flying ever written. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 4:21 AM, 71chally said: The EMI reconnaissance pod disappeared with the strike squadrons, only 2 Sqn (RAFG) and 41 Sqn (UK) used them operationally. These transferred to the Jaguar, equipped with its own pod, in late 1974 and 1976. The nuclear strike role transferred in the same time frame, 1974 to 1976. To your earlier question, 92 Sqn were only ever an Air Defence/Interceptor unit with the Phantom, along with 19 Sqn they took over the role in RAFG from the Lightning in 1977. In short the Phantom was Air Defence / Interceptor only from 1976. There are plenty of decal options out there for the strike and reccon Phantoms, even some of the kits themselves feature them. Edit, hope this helps regarding the timeline of RAF Phantom use, Phantom FG.1 & FGR.2 Squadrons Chart by James Thomas, on Flickr Amazing information, Thanks you a lot!!! cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Could I ask a naval Phantom question here please? The above chart shows 892NAS (Ark Royal) as having FG.1's (dk blue) and F-4J(UK)'s (grey) throughout 1969 to 1978. Were any of the F-4J(UK)'s deployed onto Ark Royal during the ship's commissions with Phantoms? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, bootneck said: Could I ask a naval Phantom question here please? The above chart shows 892NAS (Ark Royal) as having FG.1's (dk blue) and F-4J(UK)'s (grey) throughout 1969 to 1978. Were any of the F-4J(UK)'s deployed onto Ark Royal during the ship's commissions with Phantoms? Mike No, Ark Royal decommissioned in 1979 and the F-4J (UK) came on line in 1984. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klubman01 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 The F-4J(UK) was procured post Falklands conflict to bolster UK air defence when 23 Sqn was deployed to Stanley after the fighting was over. They would not have been on UK books until well after the Ark Royal was (sadly) decommissioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, bootneck said: Could I ask a naval Phantom question here please? The above chart shows 892NAS (Ark Royal) as having FG.1's (dk blue) and F-4J(UK)'s (grey) throughout 1969 to 1978. Were any of the F-4J(UK)'s deployed onto Ark Royal during the ship's commissions with Phantoms? The Royal Navy 892NAS Phantom use is shaded dark grey, and F-4J use in the RAF only is shaded light grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootneck Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Thanks for those confirmations. I just noticed the grey bar on the chart and that intrigued me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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