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It's over the airbrush has to go


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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Murdo said:

I've rarely had a problem spraying Tamiya acrylics with many different airbrushes. I hate brush painting with them though.

 

Revell Acrylics are good once you get the thinning right.

 

I fancy trying to spray enamels next...

Brush painting Tamiya is impossible without thinning and using Flow Improver. When I hand brush Tamiya my method is thin with 20% to 30% distilled water that contains 10% Winsor and Newton Flow Improver, thats 10% flow improver to water I tried 10% Flow Improver to paint ratio once by mistake and it was a disaster the paint wouldnt dry. I say 20 to 30% because some of the Tamiya range is thicker than others its just a case of trial and error on an old kit that is used as a test mule.

 

Since I wrote my original post I have hand painted four models three successfully and one less than successfull though that was metallic aluminium paint which is difficult to get spot on and the modelling room was really hot and stuffy meaning the paint dried too quick and left brush marks. A long session with Deluxe Materials paint stripper got me back to plastic and I waited till it was cooler before brushing and it went well.

 

I havent sold the airbrush yet I am waiting to see if the Buy and Sell section reopens though if it doesnt open soon it will go on eBay.

Edited by AltcarBoB
speeling mitsakes
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21 hours ago, grufsnik said:

What thinner do I use for enamels? White spirit? or something else?

 

You can use many things - there isn't much that an enamel is incompatible with, but you'll get different behaviours depending on what you choose.

 

White spirit works. It's cheap, but it smells strongly and dries very slowly.

 

Levelling Thinners for lacquers work. It's expensive, smells very strongly and dries quicker than white spirit.

 

Cellulose thinners usually work very well. It's cheap, smells very strongly and dries fast. It's fine for airbrushing but not recommended for brush painting as it can soften the surface of the kit plastic until it dries.

 

Naptha is what we recommend. It's not as cheap as the bulk stuff above but has the weakest and most pleasant smell of the lot and dries almost as fast as cellulose thinners.

 

I use naptha for all my actual thinning and use the cheaper household type stuff for cleaning.

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Thanks for the tip regarding Naptha. Must confess, I'd never heard of it, so I've learnt something new today.

 

Steve

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Thanks very much for your help, will give it some thought though never heard of naphtha. 

G

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On 5/24/2020 at 7:04 PM, grufsnik said:

What thinner do I use for enamels? White spirit? or something else? 

 

Hi there,

I can wholeheartedly recommend the naptha based thinners for enamels and while he is not blowing his own trumpet would suggest you try Colourcoat Thinners from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies.

Using his masterful YouTube tutorial the paints flash off to touch dry very quickly.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Cheers,

Alistair

 

 

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6 hours ago, AltcarBoB said:

Brush painting Tamiya is impossible without thinning and using Flow Improver. When I hand brush Tamiya my method is thin with 20% to 30% distilled water that contains 10% Winsor and Newton Flow Improver, thats 10% flow improver to water I tried 10% Flow Improver to paint ratio once by mistake and it was a disaster the paint wouldnt dry. I say 20 to 30% because some of the Tamiya range is thicker than others its just a case of trial and error on an old kit that is used as a test mule.

 

Since I wrote my original post I have hand painted four models three successfully and one less than successfull though that was metallic aluminium paint which is difficult to get spot on and the modelling room was really hot and stuffy meaning the paint dried too quick and left brush marks. A long session with Deluxe Materials paint stripper got me back to plastic and I waited till it was cooler before brushing and it went well.

 

I havent sold the airbrush yet I am waiting to see if the Buy and Sell section reopens though if it doesnt open soon it will go on eBay.

 

Thanks mate, I'll try that mix.

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I'm fairly new to airbrushing too and I've experienced most problems.

First of all for me tamiya with x20a is so easy to spray.

 

Secondly I had many issues with Vallejo model air, but now I'm confident with it. Tamiya and Vallejo are very different and need to be used very differently.

 

With Vallejo I need to be patient, but that's a good thing for me.

I also use Vallejo primer and thinners now, it keeps things simple. 

 

Revell aqua is easy to use.

 

Humbrol is worse than dog poo.

 

Good luck.

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On 25/05/2020 at 16:43, AltcarBoB said:

I havent sold the airbrush yet I am waiting to see if the Buy and Sell section reopens though if it doesnt open soon it will go on eBay.

If I was struggling with something I think it would make me even more determined to conquer it, not sell up on eBay 🙁

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  • 5 weeks later...
Quote

Naptha is what we recommend. It's not as cheap as the bulk stuff above but has the weakest and most pleasant smell of the lot and dries almost as fast as cellulose thinners.

That's a great shout. When I do a search for naptha on Amazon I get results for Zippo lighter fluid.. No mention though of that the ingredients are. Is this the same stuff?

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I buy Naphtha buy the gallon, the brand is Azure. Perhaps that might help help you in your search, I will not use that outrageously vile, rectitude bereft auction site so don't know if it is available there or not.

 

Great stuff, as well as being good for thining gods own paint it powers my Tilley lamps, hand warmers and lighters.

 

Colourcoats thinners are very good but not available in bulk.

 

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Posted (edited)

I've had an airbush for about 18 months now and experienced lots of the same problems as you, but find that the brand of paint makes a huge difference. I used to try Humbrol.... forget it. Then Vallejo Model Color... again really difficult to get constancy right. Vallejo Model Air slightly better but can still clog.

The best are Tamiya and Mr Hobby Aqueous... both very good when thinned a little with Tamiya X20A thinners (they do smell in the jars but hardly at all when when sprayed.

In my opinion Tamiya is the best overall. Sprays beautifully through 0.2mm nozzles and hardly any clogs, sputtering etc. Despite hardly any odours I still wear a mask though to be on the safe side (I too suffer from Asthma)

My tip would be to use Tamiya where you can and then if you can't get the colour match try Mr Hobby as their paint range is superb. 

Give Tamiya a go first.

👍

Edited by binbrook87
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  • 3 months later...

I feel your pain. I have a H&S evolution and a fengda something  that came as a combo with the compressor. i have used vellejo and tamiya acrylics and found each is ok, but its taken 18 months to get used to it. I had a very bad run with the vellejo  metalics about 6 weeks ago in the h&S and the fengda. long story short - i decided to give tamiya lacquers a go. I will never go back now, the paints go on smooth, they cure hard and they are a joy to use. the reason I avoided the. was because i thought cleanup would be messy but it isn't. i have a space in the garage so I can open up, wear a mask and shoot some acetone through and it cleans it perfectly. 

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35 minutes ago, ScottStevensNz said:

Long story short - I decided to give tamiya lacquers a go. I will never go back now, the paints go on smooth, they cure hard and they are a joy to use. the reason I avoided them was because I thought the cleanup would be messy but it isn't. I have a space in the garage so I can open up, wear a mask and shoot some acetone through and it cleans it perfectly. 

Usually when I see a post about someone struggling with an airbrush they're using acrylic paints. 99% of the time a change of paint will see them right. It's amazing what a difference just changing the paint can make. I too discovered lacquer paint a long time ago and would never be without it. It makes any airbrush a joy to use 🙂

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Lacquer Paints + Mr Color Levelling Thinner + Gravity fed Airbrush = Happy times. Nuff said. 
Cheers.. Dave 

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1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Lacquer Paints + Mr Color Levelling Thinner + Gravity fed Airbrush = Happy times. Nuff said. 
Cheers.. Dave 

So true 🙂 However, lacquer paints do smell, not terribly badly, but more so than acrylics. So I do understand the need for acrylics too where people can't have any smell from their paints for whatever reason.

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3 hours ago, Steve Noble said:

Usually when I see a post about someone struggling with an airbrush they're using acrylic paints. 99% of the time a change of paint will see them right. It's amazing what a difference just changing the paint can make. I too discovered lacquer paint a long time ago and would never be without it. It makes any airbrush a joy to use 🙂

Completely agree with what you and @ScottStevensNz have written. I converted to lacquer for bike builds and haven't looked back. Also recently I was given a tip to use Mr Levelling Thinner in Tamiya acrylics,at a much thinner rate than I was using, and it worked very well. So I have been converted to that as well.

 

And just to reinforce the point I recently used some AK acrylics "dark tracks". A cracking colour but a pig to use. It would clog a lot even thinned.

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I think acrylics dry so quickly. If you're an aircraft modeller and doing intricate camouflage schemes with the tip almost closed, that's the situation where the paint dries in the tip and clogs the airbrush. As a car/bike modeller I'm never spraying with the tip closed off like that, usually I have the tip wide open for coverage of large areas. That in itself negates any problems of 'tip dry' as the paint in the tip is always wet, always flowing..

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I sold the airbrush on evilbay and got a really good price so for once I didn't lose out too much. I bought one of the cheap Chinese Iwata rip offs for £13 to use when nothing but an airbrush will do. It's a bit crude but after I stripped it down cleaned it and lubed it it can certainly lay down some paint. Cleaning seems a lot easier as well though I don't think the seals will last long the nozzle seal is already replaced.

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I just started using my old ( 30+years ), barely used Badger 150 IL airbrush in August, spraying Tamiya and Gunze-Sanguo acrylics. I thinned about 40/60 paint/thinner, using X20A with Tamiya and Mr. Color Leveling Thinner with the G-S. I also added a wee bit of Tamiya's Paint Retarder to the Tamiya mix. I got great ( for a beginner ) results. I just need to learn a bit more control on the airbrush.

 

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Chris

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Very nice result. It just goes to show that the airbrush is simply a tool for us to master. Your results speak for themselves. I know some people prefer to brush paint and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's how everyone starts in the hobby, but there are just some things that only an airbrush can do. After years of using one I find it a fairly easy tool to use. But at first, the learning curve can be pretty steep 😀

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I love my airbrushes - Iwata, trouble fee and very easy to clean and I keep them that way. I am now at a point where I have one fine paint brush I use for detail work and airbrush everything else. I just prefer the airbrush finish. I will even put a drop of paint and thinner in the cup and airbrush small detail parts. I have a small cup HP-B Plus for that. 

 

Gunze (aqueous and lacquer paints) and Tamiya aqueous (I have not tried their new lacquer range yet) all thinned with Mr Color Levelling Thinner or alternatively for vinyl aqueous paint I use Lifecolor thinned with water or their thinner (you always need Lifecolor thinned more than you expect). All these paints are great. Also recently tried AK Real Color with their thinner. Also excellent.  

 

Pressures 10 to 20 psi. Pressure for me is not a big deal. Pressure setting is more to do with how close I need to get to the surface and required coverage. Effective airbrush operation, in my case, is more to do with correct thinning and trigger control. The one exception where I find pressure important is metallics. Maybe for better mixing in the nozzle. I find higher pressures 18-20 psi seem to lay down better.

 

If there is one investment in the hobby that's worthwhile it is an airbrush. Buy quality.  A little practice and understanding of how it operates, then suddenly, you wonder what the problem was.

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There’s nothing wrong with brush painting if that’s what you would rather do. There’s a guy here in Perth (not me!) who has practiced and perfected a method of brushing acrylics that gives him excellent results and hours of fun.

 

It sounds to me that that might be your way forward.

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