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Gunze H-72: Has it changed?


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Hello!

 

I recently purchased some Mr Hobby paints to make some RAF aircraft, and I've heard good things about H-72 as a match for Dark Earth.  However, when the bottle turned up in the post today, it didn't look at all like what I was expecting.  It got me wondering if the mix has changed at any point.

 

To illustrate, this is the sort of thing I was expecting:

GUNZE-Sangyo-Mr-Hobby-Aqueous-Color-H72-

 

It's got a bit of khaki/yellow/green to it, not a pure brown.

 

And the one I received looked more like this:

37838.jpg

 

Even that is not quite right, the one I have looks ever so slightly paler/less saturated colour (very close match the lid of Tamiya XF-52 Flat Earth acrylic), but its very brown, possibly a tiny bit reddish.

 

So, does anyone know if the mix has changed?  If so, are there any opinions on which version is more accurate?

 

Thanks!

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The last picture looks more like what it should be. In any case the color of the lid is often not a reliable match with the actual paint - let alone a photograph of it. 

 

So - only way to find out is to actually use the paint :)

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Good point.  I should clarify that the paint inside looks just like the lid in this case, though it may well change a bit as it cures on a model.

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The complete Aqueous range was revised last year but I have no idea what effect this had on colours:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StCbYLehXJQ

 

Personally, I found the original iteration of H72 a bit on the orange side and prefer the laquer version, Mr Color C369. I would echo Charlie’s comments and not use the cap colour as an indicator but try it.

 

Best

 

H

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OK, it looks like the one I have is the "new" formulation.

 

I'll try and find time to give it a test-spray and report what I find.

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Mine looks like this:

 

46226056805_168d9dbc9f_c.jpg

 

 

As I've never opened yet, after owning it for a good number of years, I have no idea what the actual paint looks like.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

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21 hours ago, Howard Moon said:

The complete Aqueous range was revised last year but I have no idea what effect this had on colours:

Beggsy still has the recent label, not the revised label for the new formula. My H72, a very recent purchase, has a colour of lid very similar to Beggsy's photo and same label. I've seen no change in paint colour. I did my recent Tamiya Spitfire Mk 1 with this new bottle of H72 and was very happy. I don't match to lids, it's what's in the bottle. Anyway with black basing, post shading and wash so long as the start is close I'm OK. I'd post a photo but that aircraft is on the other side of the planet.  

 

I hope when I see the "new" formula the colours and performance have not changed. I feel the change is driven by heath concerns (which is mentioned) and possibly cost reduction and maybe to compete head-on with the acrylics that do not use a more aggressive solvent like Vallejo etc.  They promote brushability and then show how to airbrush. OK, now I'm worried. I remember how good Tamiya acrylics were back in the 70's. I used to just brush paint no worries, now, near impossible.

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15 hours ago, Ray_W said:

I'd post a photo but that aircraft is on the other side of the planet.  

 

Just tossed it and it kept going?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I decided to do an experiment:

20200516_181003~2

 

On the left wing are 3 different versions of Dark Earth.  H-72 is the big outboard section.  A Tamiya mix is the one in the middle of the leading edge, and Vallejo BS Dark Earth is the stripe in the inboarx half.  Most of the rest is the Tamiya mix.  I thought the H-72 would look anlot closer to the other two based on photos of both the bottle and the cured paint that I've seen on this site, so I still think the colour must have changed at some point.

 

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The outboard one looks much more like the Dark Earth of the chips, with the lighter one looking more like Light Earth.  The inboard stripe looks a reasonable match to the outermost.  It is a colour known to change, and exist in different hues, but the earlier Tamiya colour would seem to be pushing both.

 

I first tried acrylic paint in the 70s, also with Tamiya - the Japanese green colour -, but my experience was the exact opposite.  I found them pretty awful to paint with a brush.   They put me off acrylics altogether until some of the more recent lacquer acrylics..  With so much available in Colourcoats, I've found no need for them.  Talking of Colourcoats, it is my understanding that the lids are sprayed in the colour in the tins, so what you see is what you get.  Which has worked so far, in my experience, though like all good enamels they do need lots of stirring.

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Always difficult to go off images but if that outboard section on the port wing is H-72 it still looks like H-72 to me.

Ray

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6 hours ago, Ray_W said:

Always difficult to go off images but if that outboard section on the port wing is H-72 it still looks like H-72 to me.

Ray

Agree with both of Ray_W’s thoughts. Gunze’s part looks right, the Tamiya mix is way off and hard to tell on the Vallejo. But a couple of days ago in a different topic here I commented on a color that looked black when viewing it on my iPhone, was compared by the poster to a FS595 dark green; always hard to tell for sure with screen reproductions.

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  • 10 months later...

Just reviving this old thread as I too am having issues with Gunze’s new H72. I recently ran out of the ‘old stuff, so put an order in for two more bottles at an online model store. When they arrived, I noticed the difference straight away and a test spray confirmed my horrible suspicion. I suspect there is no way I can obtain the old colour unless I’m lucky to find someone with old stocks of paint. I also have Gunze’s C369, however believe this Dark Earth is ‘too dark’ to be applied to 1/72 models. It also lacks that reddish / orange tinge that I liked about the old H72. 
 

Anyway, this is more of a post in frustration rather than anything new, however it’s really annoying when one of your favourite paints gets tinkered with and now I’ll end up with similar themed modes with different coloured Dark Earth. 
 

Edit - has anyone found a new Gunze Aqueous paint that matches the old H72? 
 

Cheers.. Dave

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Interesting Dave, I will have to grab a new bottle and try it. I recently bought some of their tyre black (yes I know this is not as critical as Dark Earth) and noted that the shade had changed to something more bluish. I really liked their old stuff so maybe things are going on.

 

Ray

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Thanks Ray. Funnily enough their new bottle H73 Dark Green looks exactly the same (to my eye) as their precious rendition, although must admit I find it difficult to see differences in any Dark Green paint from most manufacturers- except Humbrol 30 of course! 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

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Last year, when painting my Hurricane, I ran out of the older G-S Aqueous H-72 Dark Earth. I ordered some of the newer Mr. Hobby Aqueous H-72 Dark Earth, to finish with.

 

On testing the two,  I noticed a slight difference in colour.

 

51086222422_a00723f3d5_b.jpg

 

50398689861_7ea1f2858a_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alas... I think I've found a good alternative! 

Just purchased the SEAC set of AK Real Color paints and am happy to say that their Dark Earth #RC287 is an extremely close (if not) identical match to the original Gunze H72 Dark Earth. AK's Dark Green is quite interesting and I'm not sure I'll use this all too often as it's quite rich and has a lot of green in it (apologies for lack of proper colour description). As a bonus, this set also includes Azure Blue and is another colour I've been quite frustrated with over the years. AK's Azure looks good to my eye and I'll be using it until something better comes along. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

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43 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Dark Earth #RC287

Hi Dave

 

Good to know. I will also pick up some and give it a go.

 

I agree with you on the AK Green although, frankly, on the model and for a late war aircraft I thought it was OK.  Sit it beside your Tamiya XF-81 (early jar, now finished) and you will see the difference. This Mk. XIV is done with AK Real Color and with their thinners some of the best paint I have used. 

 

Spitfire_XIV_FInal_2

 

Ray

Edited by Ray_W
typo
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I know this discussion is about Gunzie, but when it became unavailable where I live, I had to switch to Tamiya.

I have been tried different mixes to get an acceptable Dark Earth color with Tamiya Acrylics, and have come up with one that satisfies me.

A is Tamiya XF-52 Flat Earth
B is Gunzie H72 Dark Earth  (original version)
C is Tamiya custom mix that appeared in Hyperscale, of 1:XF-72, 1:XF-49, 1:XF-55
D is my mix of Tamiya 2:XF-49 Khaki and 1:XF-52 Flat Earth
E is Tamiya XF-81 RAF Dark Green

The tops and bottom of the test card are brush painted, the center darker portion is after a coat of Future.
For comparison, I'm using the paint chips in the RAF museum's book "British Aviation Colours of World War Two". Photos were taken under natural cloudy sunlight and incandescent light.

 

Cover

 

British Aviation Colours WW2 - chips

 

British Aviation Colours WW2 - comparison 1

 

British Aviation Colours WW2 - comparison 3

 

Image9

 

It seems to me at least, there is no one correct 'Dark Earth', all the period photos I've seen suggest there was a wide variation depending on the age of the paint, cleanliness, was it waxed by the ground crew, etc. To my eye at least the green was more stable, but the brown was all over the map.

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I have a problem with Mr Hobby H69 (RLM75). The last I bought has the new kind of label and is much darker than the old H69.

To me it is far too dark.

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Humbrol 29 stays IMHO very close

 

Or try Revell mix of 2 x 86 + 1 x 84.

These exist in aqua version as well.

Edited by Steben
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I just discovered this thread too.  I was dismayed to hear that one of my much loved colours had changed and beat a hasty path down to my local hobby stores to see what was available.  

 

I returned with one of the new formula jars and compared it to the remainder of my older one.  Definitely darker, which is no so good in the small scales I work in.  Can anyone suggest a formula to tint this new H72 back into the earlier shade of Dark Earth?

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On 4/24/2021 at 11:18 AM, Putty Animal said:

Can anyone suggest a formula to tint this new H72 back into the earlier shade of Dark Earth?


See my post above. One of these spoon samples is painted in Gunze’s original H72 Dark Earth, the other is AK Real Colour RC287. Can you tell them apart? To the naked eye, I honestly can’t, so AK Real colour is my new choice due solely to its availability (all be it mail order).
 

51133717922_364845861b_b.jpg

 

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