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Steve NZ

Which Primer?

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For the purpose of this topic, I'll soon be starting to build one of my two Eduard Harrier GR7's.  In the past I've use enamel based paints but then switched to acrylic purely due to having a better colour range and the clean up process is easier.  Anyway, after using Vallejo paints I had problems with paint lifting after masking which included the primer coat!  So, can anyone recommend a good acrylic primer that will stick like an enamel?  Thanks.

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Probably not available down there, but I use Hycote. Grey or white.

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I get that you're happy with acrylics for the range of colors, but why does it have to be an acrylic primer? You can just use a solvent based one (like Mr. Surfacer) and paint it with anything you want.

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Vallejo paint not sticking and lifting under the slightest hint of masking tape is the very reason I quickly moved on from this brand of paint, Steve. My Primer of choice is Mr Surfacer thinned with Gunze’s Leveling thinner. It’s not the best smelling product, however you can mask over it all day long. 
Cheers.. Dave 

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Sounds like you didn't leave it long enough to cure. I usually allow 24 hours before putting making tape on.

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I can recommend the Ultimate range of acrylic primers. I have used their grey, white, black and gloss black. It is touch dry quickly but I always allow to dry overnight. The gloss black I use for metallic.

 

I also thin a little - with their thinner - and use a wide nozzle.

 

One of the currencies listed is NZD so you should be good for delivery.

Mark

 

https://www.umpretail.com/

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Thanks for all the help.  I think I'll try the Mr. Surfacer although there seems to be a lot of different grades of it like 500, 100, 1200!  Can anyone point me in the right direction for which is best?  Thanks. 

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The bigger the number the finer the "pigment". 1200 upwards dries to a satin finish if sprayed right. I use the 500 one as filler for fine gaps, ejector pins...

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Posted (edited)

I would like a spray can primer for my plastic kits which I would then I will then brush paint with enamels . . . .

Can anybody recommend such a primer please ??

 

many thanks

Ian

Edited by Mancunian airman

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Gunze also make their Mr. Surfacer primers in spray cans, as do Tamiya. I’ve used both and they’re equally as good. 
Cheers.. Dave 
 

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I too am looking for a reliable primer but I have to admit to feeling a bit nervous about spraying Mr Surfacer through one of my airbrushes, is that what you're doing @Rabbit Leader  if you are what do you use to clean the brush afterwards? Spray cans are ok but it's where to spray them I get complaints about using Tamiya rattle cans even when used in the store room/garage.

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4 minutes ago, MarkSH said:

...is that what you're doing @Rabbit Leader 

Yep... however I only use a cheap Iwata knock-off AB for all my painting whether it be primer, paint, clears... she happily handles the lot. For cleaning, I always flush it out with 'Hardware' grade Lacquer (Cellulose) Thinner and it seems to work just fine. Perhaps the answer is to obtain a cheapo AB for priming and leave your good gear for proper paintwork? 

Cheers.. Dave 

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Posted (edited)

Badger Stynylrez has surprised me with its efficacy, sprays, sticks and sands well.

 

The ultimate primer is Stynylrez with a mark up for the re-labelling.

 

I get mine from here: Stynylrez.

Edited by dromia

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Thanks @Rabbit Leader something to consider.

 

5 minutes ago, dromia said:

Badger Stynylrez has surprised me with its efficacy, sprays, stacks and sands well.

 

The ultimate primer is Stynylrez with a mark up for the re-labelling.

 

I get mine from here:Stynylrez.

Cheers @dromia yes I have seen Barwell before and you're right Stynylrez is a very good primer although I have had a couple of stability issues in the past, tried Vallejo and not impressed at all Tamiya fine surface rattle can primer is the best but the premium is the smell. Perhaps I'll see if I can order some more Stynylrez from Barwell, generally it's in short supply everywhere at the moment.

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@Rabbit Leader's suggestion for Mr Surfacer as a primer is my #1 primer too. It provides a wonderfully smooth surface. Airbrushing Mr Surfacer won't harm your airbrush. I use my Iwata HP-TH (0.5mm) airbrush for Mr Surfacer as well as base coats and clear coats. It will also spray well through my Iwata HP-CH (0.3mm), which I will use for priming smaller parts. Just clean your airbrush normally. I use hardware store lacquer (cellulose) thinner.

 

I use the 1200 since it's readily available to me. I thin with Mr Color Leveling Thinner to the same consistency I thin regular Mr Color paints. For me, that's like 1% milk; I spray at 15 psi (1 atm). Like all airbrushing, spray close and make sure the paint hits the surface slightly wet. You'll find that it will fill slight scratches, but won't fill detail, so, have a well prepared surface.

 

Mr Color paints are my primary paint--they provide the best possible finish. Lacquers provide the thinnest paint layer; acrylics are the thickest, with enamels between.

 

Found a shot of my previous build Bad Angel, with all the parts primed with thinned Mr Surfacer 1200

badangel-primed.jpg

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49 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Perhaps the answer is to obtain a cheapo AB for priming and leave your good gear for proper paintwork? 

In effect that's what I did, except I got mine "free" with a compressor - but one thing to beware of. Cheapo airbrushes often come with cheap rubber seals which can be destroyed by "hot" cleaners (such as cellulose thinner). One of my freebies died of seal rot within a week, though the other has been working fine for a couple of years now. I think the mistake I made with the first one is that I attempted a full strip down clean, whereas the other one I just flush through with thinners after spraying (I only use it for Mr Surfacer).

 

One other thing - I find it prone to tip dry with Mr Surfacer, which is initially manifested by drops of Mr Surfacer landing on the model. I keep some cotton buds and thinner on hand to periodically clean the tip. As for those drops that do end up on the model, well more often than not, the self levelling properties of Mr Surface thinned with levelling thinner mean they magically disappear. If not they are very easily sanded out.

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

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3 hours ago, Mancunian airman said:

I would like a spray can primer for my plastic kits which I would then I will then brush paint with enamels . . . .

Can anybody recommend such a primer please ??

 

many thanks

Ian

 

IMHO the good old Tamiya primer is still the best, or at least one of the best. Not cheap, but very reliable and effective, gives good coverage while respecting even the most delicate surface detail.

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On 4/28/2020 at 6:39 AM, Steve NZ said:

For the purpose of this topic, I'll soon be starting to build one of my two Eduard Harrier GR7's.  In the past I've use enamel based paints but then switched to acrylic purely due to having a better colour range and the clean up process is easier.  Anyway, after using Vallejo paints I had problems with paint lifting after masking which included the primer coat!  So, can anyone recommend a good acrylic primer that will stick like an enamel?  Thanks.

 

I'm not sure if I understand right, do you mean that the primer also lifted ? If this is the case then the primer is the problem more than the paint, as this behaviour would indicate that the paint has stuck well to the primer but the primer has not stuck to the plastic.

Vallejo also have a line of primers, I often use their black primer through an airbrush and is IMHO very good

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19 minutes ago, ckw said:

 

I find it prone to tip dry with Mr Surfacer, which is initially manifested by drops of Mr Surfacer landing on the model.

That doesn't sound like tip dry, that sounds like primer building up in the nozzle cover and occasionally being blown out. That's why it's recommended to take the guard off when working in certain conditions.

Tip dry would manifest itself by "chunks" of paint being thrown on the model as it's being dislodged from the needle tip and actually blocking some of the primer flow.

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You may well be right - which is why the quick cotton bub wipe works. I'll try removing the guard next time

 

Thanks

 

Colin

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Good luck! Keep in mind you will have no protection for the needle, so extra care when you put it in the airbrush holder.

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57 minutes ago, MarkSH said:

Thanks @Rabbit Leader something to consider.

 

Cheers @dromia yes I have seen Barwell before and you're right Stynylrez is a very good primer although I have had a couple of stability issues in the past, tried Vallejo and not impressed at all Tamiya fine surface rattle can primer is the best but the premium is the smell. Perhaps I'll see if I can order some more Stynylrez from Barwell, generally it's in short supply everywhere at the moment.

I have found it needs to be sprayed close up and laid down "wet" over an initial mist coat to give it a "key".

 

If you get too far away it dries before covering and consequently can be powdery, granular and lack adhesion.

 

I am not an "acrylic fan", in the many differing paint types that attract the moniker.

 

Stynylrez however is the exception, evidently it is a polyurethane "acrylic", which works as an excellent primer for my beloved enamels.

 

I lay it down though my Aztek airbrush, turquoise (nominal 0.5mm) nozzle at a high, for me, 20psi.

 

I buy the 32oz bottles to ensure I have plenty to hand.

 

No issues and I clean up with isopropyl alcohol. 

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1 hour ago, ckw said:

...

One other thing - I find it prone to tip dry with Mr Surfacer, which is initially manifested by drops of Mr Surfacer landing on the model. I keep some cotton buds and thinner on hand to periodically clean the tip. As for those drops that do end up on the model, well more often than not, the self levelling properties of Mr Surface thinned with levelling thinner mean they magically disappear. If not they are very easily sanded out.

Hm, I've not had that with any Gunze "Mr" paints.

 

Do you use Mr Color Leveling Thinner? What consistency do you thin to? What pressure? What needle size?

My info is above.

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Posted (edited)

I thin (with Mr color levelling thinner) to about the same consistency as for Mr Hobby paints "skimmed milk", .4 needle, about 15psi ... sprays beautifully for a few minutes then I get the spattering. I think bmwh548 had the solution above which I will try next time ... it is a crap airbrush I use for this, but my others have finer needles, not so suitable for wide area coverage.

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

Edited by ckw
missing info

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Keep in mind that lacquer thinners tend to evaporate quickly. I make small amounts of mixes because by the time I finish half a cup I need to add more thinner in it. If I don't towards the end of the cup I've got something that is almost unsprayable. So it might be worth checking that when you start to get splatter, tilt the airbrush side to side and check the consistency of the primer.

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