Pan Am 707

[Lord Riot]

I've just bought an Airfix Boeing 707 from Kingkit for the very reasonable price of £15 as I've wanted to make some classic airliners for a while now. What could be more classic than the 1960s Pan Am livery? However, what would be the best decals for this kit, and is the Airfix kit (old Skyking series with British Airways livery) suitable, or is it completely the wrong version of 707?

 

I don't know much about airliners really so any help and info appreciated! 

 

Trying to get a TWA Constellation at some point too, having recently bought the Airfix Comet and Vanguard. Maybe need a DC-7 and DC-8 too, but I hadn't realised how expensive most of these airliner kits are! Especially Tridents and VC-10s.

[Philbky]

The Airfix kit is based on the Rolls Royce engined 707-436 so you will need new engines if you are going to model a Pan American 707-321.  If it is to be an early version, the difference is slight but if it is to be a 321B or C version then you will certainly have to change the engines.

 

If you go for the early version you can retain the under rear fuselage fin of the 436.  If not then you will need to find a photo of the particular B or C version you wish to model as some had a reduced sized fin, some no fin at all.  Also you will need to look at the passenger windows to see if there were blanks on the aircraft you are modelling.

[Dave Swindell]

9 minutes ago, Lord Riot said:

What could be more classic than the 1960s Pan Am livery?

Depends on how fussy you are about accuracy

Decals from Ray at 26

http://www.26decals.com/epages/62035508.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62035508/Products/144-480

http://www.26decals.com/epages/62035508.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62035508/Products/STS44137

 

Probably more than you want to know about the different 707 versions here

https://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=72

 

You can get 320C hushkit engines from Authentic airliners but they'll cost you more than the kit

https://www.authentic-airliners.de/epages/64205758.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/64205758/Products/A144-13

 

Alternatively you could build this one as BA, and if you really want Pan Am you could look out for either of these

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/minicraft-model-kits-14450-boeing-707-320b-intercontinental--123492

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/eastern-express-14401-boeing-707-121--162695

[Lord Riot]

Wow, thanks gents that's really helpful. It looks like my best option is to build this one as BA (or BOAC?) and get the Minicraft 707 with Pan Am decals.

 

One last question though, I read a couple of reviews of the Minicraft kit that basically slated it, particularly the nose shape. If I built it out of the box would the nose be glaringly bad next to the Airfix one, or is it a minor thing that most modellers would live with?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Lord Riot

[bzn20]

The Pan-Am 707-321 has a different wing to the BOAC -436 . There are quite a few differences apart from RR Conways on the kit you have and the -321 of Pan-Am .

Pan-Am got the first ever 707 , a 707-121 That wing is the same trailing edge wise but shorter fuse  . You've bought yourself in to a corner , 707 wise as there were only a handful ordered/operated RR powered 707-420s . EL.AL , Varig , British Eagle , Air India , Lufthansa and BOAC  . BEA Airtours used BOAC 707s in BEA flying Jack scheme . If you're not that worried about accuracy it won't matter but the wing trailing edge Flap Fillet would be a bit of a rat's nest to sort out . Engines and Pylons have been mentioned above . Early 707 -320s including Pan_Am's 707-321 had the tail keel Fin/tail bumper ,they were  removed a few years later. BTW There were 3 different tail keel Fins , in size and shape but that's a bit too deep .

 You'll also hear somewhere …. The Airfix nose is wrong anyway . How much do you want to change ? Wing, Engine and Pylon combo ,Nose ?

 

See how much a 707-320 kit is . Probably best thing to do .

[Lord Riot]

It's a veritable minefield of 707s it seems! And there was I thinking it was just a matter of decals. Oh well, having bought it now I'll either shift it on ebay or make it oob in the BA decals.

 

How good, bad or ugly is the Minicraft kit?

[dnl42]

Glad to see this come up!

 

I have the Minicraft kit and the Two Mikes resin nose. I thought i had Pan Am decals but i don't see it in my inventory...

[Turbofan]

Hi,

Save yourself the trouble and get one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOEING-720-B-PAN-AMERICAN-SHORTENED-707-JET-CLIPPER-PANAMA-319-1-144-RODEN/362878754320?hash=item547d425e10:g:nu8AAOxyYANTZ4oQ&redirect=mobile

It's easy to build, accurate(apart from the engraving on the underside of the wings), nice correct engines and nose, comes with PanAm decals and is basically a 707 just shortened.

Cheers,

Ian

[bzn20]

That Pan-Am 720-021B kit sounds like a much better alternative . Used to see those at Heathrow .

Don't like the  shortened 707 bit on the ebay description , not really  ..Lighter structure , wing is different . 720 has a thicker chord inbd of inbd engines so the leading edge  sweep is cranked , Wing span was the same as the 707-120 ,about 15 foot shorter span of -321B ...Just saying ..  A QANTAS 707-138B was a shortened 707 and still not a 720-021B .

But 2 Hot Rods all the same .

[Skodadriver]

5 hours ago, Lord Riot said:

...

 

One last question though, I read a couple of reviews of the Minicraft kit that basically slated it, particularly the nose shape. If I built it out of the box would the nose be glaringly bad next to the Airfix one, or is it a minor thing that most modellers would live with?

The biggest problem with the Minicraft kit is the shape of the cockpit, particularly the clear section which is way off. Personally I would say it is glaringly bad. I think it ruins the look of the model and I couldn't live with it. The easiest fix is to replace the clear section with the Contrails resin part. It's a simple drop-in replacement, no surgery or anything difficult, but it transforms the look of the finished model. Apart from the cockpit shape the Minicraft 707 is actually pretty decent. The engines on the -320B (the Pan Am boxing) have a little too much nose-up tilt but it's not a show-stopping fault like the cockpit shape.

 

@dnl42 mentions the Two Mikes resin nose. It is now sold by Phase Hangar and is a rather more ambitious fix than the Contrails part but it gives a good result. This is a Minicraft 707 I built using it in case you're interested.

 

Dave G

 

 

[Lord Riot]

Thank you chaps. I'll have a think but I'll probably make the Airfix one as BA from the box then see how much I'm prepared to spend on a Pan Am one and/or resin nose!

 

@Skodadriver your Condor 707 is amazing!

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

9 hours ago, Lord Riot said:

Wow, thanks gents that's really helpful. It looks like my best option is to build this one as BA (or BOAC?) and get the Minicraft 707 with Pan Am decals.

 

One last question though, I read a couple of reviews of the Minicraft kit that basically slated it, particularly the nose shape. If I built it out of the box would the nose be glaringly bad next to the Airfix one, or is it a minor thing that most modellers would live with?

The Minicraft 707 looks like a 707 to me, if you are not fussed with total accuracy build it OOB

 

I have built a couple, the engine intakes took a bit of work to get rid of the seams.

 

 

[skippiebg]

Lord Riot, I'd say you don't need to reinvent your Pan Am 707 enterprise at all!

 

Get some Pan Am decals from 26decal. Build the kit as it is. You will have a _Pan_American_Boeing_707-321_Intercontinental. (As in, not a 707-320B or 707-320C, but a 707-320 Intrecontinental. Yes, Pan Am had those in the early jet era when its titles said "Pan American." They hired them out early on to operators like PIA and by the early 1970s sold them on to operators like JAT. But they definitely did have them!)

 

All you have to modify to be true to the original is the engines. And that's _really_ easy! First, flatten the nacelle sides a bit with a few strokes of a sanding stick. Second, add a "chin intake" below the main intake, using a small sliver of plastic card (or yogurt container... whatever), and fair it all in with a smudge of filler. And -- you're there! The Airfix noise suppressors look very businesslike (unless we're about to start counting rivets...)

 

Here is a lovely Pan Am Boeing 707-321 Intercontinental for you.

 

---

 

Edit: _And_a bit of a bonus, too! The Airfix 707's tail fin is a few millimetres short of the developed 707 and a few millimetres taller than the early 707. Most modellers live with it. Extending it is a bit of a pain, but cutting it down to the early short fin is dead easy. And, as it happens, Pan Am's very early 707-321 Intercontinentals did have the short fin. (If you decide to cut the fin down, you should also remove the underfin -- another dead easy mod, done in ten seconds flat.)

Edited April 28, 2020 by skippiebg
thought of something else

[Lord Riot]

Thanks chaps, I hadn't realised just how many options and differences there were!

 

@Romeo Alpha Yankee your Aussie 707 looks great, is that the standard kit nose, no resin parts? It looks ok to me!

 

@skippiebg so I could use the BA Airfix kit just with those engine nacelle mods and Pan Am decals? 

 

 

[skippiebg]

1 hour ago, Lord Riot said:

Thanks chaps, I hadn't realised just how many options and differences there were!

Yes -- the 707 family has these versions: 120, 120B, 720, 720B, 320 Intercontinental, 420 Intercontinental, 320B/C, 320B/C Advanced

1 hour ago, Lord Riot said:

 

@skippiebg so I could use the BA Airfix kit just with those engine nacelle mods and Pan Am decals? 

 

 

Yes! The kit represents a 707-420 Intercontinental and the only difference between that version and a 707-320 Intercontinental is in the engines. Thankfully, visually that difference is not that big.

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

On 4/28/2020 at 10:42 PM, Lord Riot said:

Thanks chaps, I hadn't realised just how many options and differences there were!

 

@Romeo Alpha Yankee your Aussie 707 looks great, is that the standard kit nose, no resin parts? It looks ok to me!

 

@skippiebg so I could use the BA Airfix kit just with those engine nacelle mods and Pan Am decals? 

 

 

My kit was build OOB, only aftermarket was the decals, I also built a second one and have another 3 in the stash

[AndrewP]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:53 PM, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

The Minicraft 707 looks like a 707 to me, if you are not fussed with total accuracy build it OOB...

 

R.A.Y.'s 707 looks to me too like a 707!  Nice work, there.

 

I also had success with the Minicraft kit, just some vigorous sanding when blending in the cockpit transparency.  I found a simple fix for the intakes too.  I used Two-Six Decals set #STS44137 for the Pan American livery on the Braniff 707-320B release of the kit.

 

Here the final product:

 

 

 

Full detailed build here: https://arp1757.smugmug.com/Commercial-Transports/B707-Project/

 

Andrew P

Chesapeake, Virginia

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by AndrewP

[Lord Riot]

That is superb @AndrewP! Exactly the result I'm aiming for, although I'll probably build mine with wheels down. 

[Viking]

 

On 27/04/2020 at 16:15, Lord Riot said:

I've just bought an Airfix Boeing 707 from Kingkit for the very reasonable price of £15 as I've wanted to make some classic airliners for a while now.

I've just finished building & improving this kit, and took a few photos along the way, intending to do a WIP thread, but never got around to it.

They may be of assistance here, as they directly relate to the original question.

This is what I ended up with from ye olde Airfix kit and 26 Decals:

 

 

First problem is the nose, it is way too skinny. I used a Daco clear cockpit insert to improve the cockpit area. They are sold separately on the Daco website) I had to shim it considerably in order to make the forward fuselage wide enough to fit it. The shim is about 5mm at the nose, and also went back to the rear of the nosebay, tapering as it does here on the top.

 

I filled all the windows with Milliput, and raised the tail fin about 1 cm. I got the extension right simply by using a photocopy of the tail decal, and also comparing it with my unbuilt Authentic Airliners 707. The extension is at an odd angle so that I could scribe in the top of the rudder.

 

The wings have a horrible trench along the upper surface. I filled it with strips of plasticard and Milliput. I also sanded off the raised panel lines and scribed the,m The pitot on the fin top is a length of brass wire, blended in with Milliput.

 

The engines are not very good, they have a strange lip on the front, making the actual intake hole look too small. I removed the lip and widened the intakes.

There is no fan detail inside, but I had a set of 4 fan units from the S&M release of the Minicraft DC-8 CFM-56 engines. They are way to big, but easily reduced in size. I first squaered them off, then 'octagoned' the squares, and finally sanded them round to the right size. (I forgot to photograph one in octagon form).

 

Finished engines:

 

At last!, filed, sanded, filled again, sanded again until I got a fair result all in primer ready for painting. About a mile of masking tape was consumed by all the painting that folllowed.

 

Hope this helps, all the mods certainly improve the look of the kit.

I wonder what a Daco insert would do to the Minicraft kit?

 

Cheers

 

John

[Lord Riot]

That is superb John, thank you! I'm actually a bit far on now to change the nose, but I have skimmed out the engine intakes to widen them. I'm going to rely on the 26 Decals to cover up the windows.

 

Most of the raised panel lines have gone on the fuselage as it takes so much sanding doesn't it! 

 

Your final result looks amazing!