1/32 F-4M Phantom from Revell F-4F

[Nigel Bunker]

I had one of these in the loft, which I purchased from Wonderland Models when they were on sale at £18.49 a couple of years ago.

 

 

I've long had an itch to see if an F-4M could be made from it.

 

Well like you all I've been in lockdown so here's the results so far. I haven't posted more in progress pictures as I wasn't certain the whole thing wouldn't end up in the bin.

 

 

 

 

I'm not happy with the width of the intakes though I followed the build of a Tamiya F-4J to F-4M whivh said to increase the width by 4.5mm, which is what I have done. Having spent so much time filling and sanding, I don't fancy redoing the intakes so I'll ponder it for a few days. The width only meaures 4.5mm wider than the intakes on my F-4J(UK) conversion fron the same kit.

 

Nose is by Dave Parkins, and I have a set of aftermarket F-4J wheels to fit. Otherwise it's down to the kit, Slaters plastic card, Milliput and Humbrol filler (as that's all I have left).

 

I'll post more pictures when it progresses.

[Nigel Bunker]

After much reflection and looking at pictures of UK Phantoms, I thought the intakes looked wrong. A topic in LSP confirmed that the Revell intakes are oversize, being about the size of those fitted to UK Phantoms. The Tamiya ones are the correct size for J79 Phantoms.

 

So this morning I pulled the intakes apart, removed the spacers and rebuilt them. Much cursing, gluing, clamping and filling followed. Once the filler hardens, I'll rub them down and post some pictures.

[Antti_K]

Hello Nigel,

 

in my opinion you did the right decision. The intakes should be roughly the same size as those of F-4J.

 

I created these pictures to highlight the difference in shape.

 

 

And then head-on. Compare the width of the intakes. It will give you a rough idea about the difference and how small it actually is.

 

 

It has been said over and over again that British Phantom has 20% larger intakes because the Spey engine needs 20% more air. That is roughly true for an aircraft designed for sub-sonic speeds. When you design an intake for Mach 2 your biggest problem are the Oblique Shock waves. If they enter the intake they will cause a flame out due to engine air starvation. My point is that it is very demanding process to design an intake which takes all this into account. Increasing the cross section alone won't do the job. You might have to bend the intake funnel, made its cross section wider at certain point etc. The upper photo gives an idea. Note how the curvature differs between an FGR.2 and F-4E.

 

If you have access to F-4K Plane Captain's Manual, don't trust the measurements given there as they are for F-4J. I have been trying to "de-cypher" the figures given in Phantom A.P. but haven't figured it out yet. Those numbers simply don't match.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Tailspin Turtle]

https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html

[SAT69]

Your conversion is well designed and your progress is excellent. I believe you're going to have a real winner there!

[phildagreek]

Looks good on an exciting project.

[Nigel Bunker]

And after cutting, cleaning up, gluing, filling, sanding, fil;ling, sanding.........................

 

 

 

 

 

That is the intakes corrected. Well it looks OK so far, until the primer is sprayed on when there will bw more filling, sanding, filling, sanding........................................

 

[Col.]

Seriously impressive work!

[Antti_K]

Looks much better now! Good job Nigel.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Max Headroom]

Phabulous.

 

Any thoughts of a colour scheme?

 

Trevor 

 

Edit - of course as soon as you finish this, HKM will release its long awaited version.

[Nigel Bunker]

6 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Any thoughts of a colour scheme?

Definitely Dark Sea Grey/Dark Green/ Light Aircraft Grey scheme, and either 23, 29 or 56 Squadrons.

 

And thank you for the nice words gentlemen.

[Nigel Bunker]

6 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

of course as soon as you finish this, HKM will release its long awaited version.

That's true Trevor - but will I be able to buy one for £35.00, which is what this has cost me so far?

 

Yours economically

 

Nigel

[Nigel Bunker]

Well I'm sorry for the delay but this model has been fighting me.

 

First there was prime (with Halfords Grey Primer - great for showing faults)  fill, sand, re-prime over sanding, fill, sand, re-prime over sanding, fill, sand, re-prime over sanding, etc.

 

Then the fun got going. I checked my preferred Xtracrylix paints only to find I didn't have enough so I'd better get some more. I needed Dark Sea Grey, Dark Green and Light Aircraft Grey. So onto my first choice, Wonderland Models. They hadn't got Dark Sea Grey or Dark Green. So I checked with Hannants, and guess what? They hadn't got Dark Sea Grey or Dark Green either.

 

So after much head scratching and consulting Google I bought an RAF set of Hataka paints, Blue for brush painting from Models For Sale Ltd. Several days later they arrived. These went on nicely, two coats giving full coverage of the grey primer. But the finish was very matt, so it needed glossing so out came the Klear, my gloss of preference. I happily painted it on but when I returned I had never seen such a blotchy finish. I tried a second coat on one wing, with virtually no improvement.

 

So out with the Fairy Power Spray. This was sprayed on, left for 30 minutes and wiped off, and after a couple of trys the Klear was cleared away . Please don't try to tell me that ISP would have worked better as I ordered it from Amazon and am still waiting it's delivery. I wonder what it's like with Tonic Water, ice and lemon?

 

After much pondering I remembered I had an aerosol of Halfords Clear Laquer in the garage so being ultra cautious, I used it to gloss one tailplane on the basis that it was easily cleaned up if it went wrong. Happily it worked so I sprayed the rest of the model. And here's the result.

 

 

 

 

 

The half white tyres are not some subtle weathering effect but a result of them standing in drips of Fairey Power Spray that had run off of the model.

 

The next step is to add the natural metal sections (and repaint the tyres). Once that is done I can think about decals, which will need to be produced at home.

 

Doubtless the final insult will be HKM releasing their kit on 1st June for £100.00, in which case you will hear my screams all over the country!

[Anthony in NZ]

Well, I have to say I am impressed, what a valiant effort! The thought of making such a radical change of versions is impressive indeed!  I would not have even considered it.  Well done indeed.  The world needs more British Phantoms!!!

 

I somehow missed this thread, so reading it this morning made my day...thanks

 

Cheers Anthony

[Anthony in NZ]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:06 AM, Antti_K said:

Hello Nigel,

 

in my opinion you did the right decision. The intakes should be roughly the same size as those of F-4J.

 

I created these pictures to highlight the difference in shape.

 

 

And then head-on. Compare the width of the intakes. It will give you a rough idea about the difference and how small it actually is.

 

 

It has been said over and over again that British Phantom has 20% larger intakes because the Spey engine needs 20% more air. That is roughly true for an aircraft designed for sub-sonic speeds. When you design an intake for Mach 2 your biggest problem are the Oblique Shock waves. If they enter the intake they will cause a flame out due to engine air starvation. My point is that it is very demanding process to design an intake which takes all this into account. Increasing the cross section alone won't do the job. You might have to bend the intake funnel, made its cross section wider at certain point etc. The upper photo gives an idea. Note how the curvature differs between an FGR.2 and F-4E.

 

If you have access to F-4K Plane Captain's Manual, don't trust the measurements given there as they are for F-4J. I have been trying to "de-cypher" the figures given in Phantom A.P. but haven't figured it out yet. Those numbers simply don't match.

 

Cheers,

Antti

Antti, that's a brilliant observation!  I have the Wild Hare conversion I am hoping to start later this year after I clear some other projects off my shelf.  As nice as it is, there are even still some tweaks this needs too.  Do you have any thoughts on the WH conversion as I want to get this as accurate as I can.

 

Sorry for the thread creep....back to this beauty

[Antti_K]

Hello Anthony,

 

I have seen that conversion set in photographs only. If I understand correctly it was based on a scratch built conversion using Tamiya F-4J as a base. The intakes were widened by 20% giving rather unrealistic look. Also the contours of the rear fuselage should be different but that was taken into account only partially in the conversion set.

 

Here are the best "instructions" for the conversion: https://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/6179-rr-spey-powered-raf-phantom-conversion/

Check page 1 and scroll down until you find the first post by "Barry"; I think he has done an excellent job with his Phantom conversion. Look at the photos Barry published and you can see for example that he got the side view right.

 

Then there is (can't find the correct page at the moment) a topic in the Internet giving measurements taken on the real thing. Much of the discussion on LSP is based on assumptions. The guys haven't measured the aircraft, but rely on hear say and various three view drawings.

 

I'm still waiting for the HKM 1/32 scale British Phantom. To my eye it seems to be a pipe dream (year after year and no news). Therefore I'm still planning a conversion of my own. At the moment I think that an easy way towards correct shape and dimensions is to build the Airfix 1/72 scale FG.1 first and use it's measurement for the conversion.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Anthony in NZ]

Thanks so much Antti

You have confirmed a suspicion on the rear fuse I had.  When I start my build thread I will let you know.  The conversion still needs the upper intake contour fixed too.  Easy enough to do.  yes Barry is really nailing it!  I have been following his work.

 

Thanks for your help

 

 

[Nigel Bunker]

And here it is finished. Roundels are Modeldecal, serials are  home made using Word and RAF_PW_ATH font, stencils are from Modeldecal and scaled up and Squuadron markings are from Xtradecal, scaled up again.

 

 

More pictures in RFI here .

[billn53]

Very, very nice!

[Murdo]

An absolute cracker!