Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Recommended Posts

A while back, I read about a rigging technique that a member here used on his model.  It involved making a tiny hook to attached to stretchy line and when pulled, it could be attached to a loop at the attachment point.   I've done several searches but can't locate the thread again (yes, I should've bookmarked it...).   Does anyone else remember the description of that technique?    I have about a dozen kits that would need rigging if built and it sounded like a good technique to try.   I appreciate any assistance you can give!  Cheers!  🍻

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Gorby.  You and I must've done a very similar Google search because I did see those videos last night and the accompanying link from the austinsms.org site.  Old Tom sure makes it look neat and easy in those videos doesn't he?   😉   But, I do think that's a very tidy way to achieve a great look.   And one that I may certainly use.  I think I watched and read enough on the subject that I fell asleep with visions of bi-plane rigging "dancing in my head"!     Do you have a favored technique for rigging?   I'm not really sure why, but I have an itch to do another bipe; hell, I struggle to get a simple kit finished OOB.  All those "Golden Age" fighters from the'30 are taunting me from the shelf and a few Great War kits there also send their regards.   Just a glutton for punishment I guess.  😄

 

Thank you so much for responding with that great info!  🍻

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gary Brantley said:

Do you have a favored technique for rigging?  

No problem Gary. I never ended up using the stuff I posted above, as I went off the idea of biplanes after doing a Roland last year – which didn't need turnbuckles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Gary Brantley said:

A while back, I read about a rigging technique that a member here used on his model.  It involved making a tiny hook to attached to stretchy line and when pulled, it could be attached to a loop at the attachment point.   I've done several searches but can't locate the thread again (yes, I should've bookmarked it...).   Does anyone else remember the description of that technique?    I have about a dozen kits that would need rigging if built and it sounded like a good technique to try.   I appreciate any assistance you can give!  Cheers!  🍻

I don't know where that video is but this is exactly the method I use, including the loop.  I make the loop out of the thinnest beading wire I can find and twist it around the point of a needle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harold, have you described your technique here on BM before?  Perhaps that's where I read of this method?    I am very intrigued by it and would love to try it.  Is your method similar to that in the link Orso provided? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Gary Brantley said:

Harold, have you described your technique here on BM before?  Perhaps that's where I read of this method?    I am very intrigued by it and would love to try it.  Is your method similar to that in the link Orso provided? 

The link with the rigging going into a piece of brass tubing that will end up being in effect the turnbuckle is more involved than what I do but I should work very well provided the metal hook at the other end does not bend out of shape.  I am going to try it as I just bought so e metal tube.  Mine is simpler as only on my last model have I tried to duplicate turnbuckle.  Used fly tieing tube as the turnbuckle and it works pretty good and is easy to cut but just ran the thread through it and glued it to the loop I had attached previously.  I did mention my method of using the loop glued to the wing on one of my ready for inspection posts but not much detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Harold55 said:

The link with the rigging going into a piece of brass tubing that will end up being in effect the turnbuckle is more involved than what I do but I should work very well provided the metal hook at the other end does not bend out of shape.  I am going to try it as I just bought so e metal tube.  Mine is simpler as only on my last model have I tried to duplicate turnbuckle.  Used fly tieing tube as the turnbuckle and it works pretty good and is easy to cut but just ran the thread through it and glued it to the loop I had attached previously.  I did mention my method of using the loop glued to the wing on one of my ready for inspection posts but not much detail.

Harold, do you recall which post that was?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Gary Brantley said:

Harold, do you recall which post that was?   

Hopefully this works.  Not the greatest pictures but I used the same technique on my two Halberstadt's and an Albatross I posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incredible technique though I'm a 1:72 man myself and I'm really not up to that level of microsurgery. Hat's off to those who are. I just use 0.3 drills and invisible thread. Even then it's sooo tiny. My eyes are not what they once were you know...:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things to remember when deciding how to rig, especially if you plan on using loops and brass slip tube for "turnbuckles":

1 RAF wire (ie anything British) didn't have turnbuckles.

2 Anything that did have turnbuckles only had them at one end of the wire. No need to have a tightening device at both ends!

 

Ian 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Two things to remember when deciding how to rig, especially if you plan on using loops and brass slip tube for "turnbuckles":

1 RAF wire (ie anything British) didn't have turnbuckles.

2 Anything that did have turnbuckles only had them at one end of the wire. No need to have a tightening device at both ends!

 

Ian 

Very useful info Ian! :clap2:  So, RAF biplanes (WWI and later) had no turnbuckles at all?   Very interesting!  And, regarding point 2; that does make perfect sense.   All those carefully rigged planes with turnbuckles at each connection are incorrect?   That does simplify things a lot, and considering point 1, makes Brit craft all the more appealing!  😀

 

Being particularly interested in the between the wars biplane fighters, and especially the Fury I, I've come across this article about the sole surviving flyable Fury.  In the excellent photos, one can see what looks like the same attachment devices at both ends of the flying wires.  Is this just a modern-day "method" for that?  

 

https://vintageaviationecho.com/flying-the-hawker-fury/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On RAF aircraft the rigging is Rafwire, which is effectively one giant turnbuckle, the aerodynamic wire has opposite threads at each end.  Twist the wire one way and it tightens, the other way loosens.  On the Fury photos you linked you can see the flatness of the wires where they cross, as the opposing wire is viewed on its short face and the others on the width.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't confuse RAF (Royal Aircraft Factory) Wire with Royal Air Force! (That is why the Royal Aircraft Factory was renamed after the Royal Air Force came into being). RAF wire was supplied cut in pre-formed lengths for a particular aircraft and rigging position. Here's an interesting article about the development of RAF wire.

https://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72&title=bruntons-and-the-origins-of-raf-wires

The fittings were integral with the wire and as stated above by Malpaso also allowed for adjustment. Turnbuckles were a means of adjusting round wire which was cut to length as needed and attached using eye bolts. 

https://www.westechrigging.com/rigging-hardware-turnbuckles.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPhfR6MR5m9l50NdFtCxRrBktJ77PY62gcDpzIzjWWluNy496ll-Z9xoC-XYQAvD_BwE

 

This shows some useful photos of thurnbuckles. 

W.W.I Aircraft rigging cables and turnbuckles

 

One end would be attached to an eye bolt with no tensioner and the other would have the turnbuckle. You can clearly see the difference in the fittings between these and RAF wire.

Depending on the scale you model in they may not even be noticable since they were not much thicker than the wire in section. I don't add anything in 1:72, if you wanted to a simple dab of paint would be more than adequate. In 1:32 there are quite a few options including resin items from Gaspatch and wire from Bobs Buckles.

 

HTH.

 

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Don't confuse RAF (Royal Aircraft Factory) Wire with Royal Air Force! (That is why the Royal Aircraft Factory was renamed after the Royal Air Force came into being). RAF wire was supplied cut in pre-formed lengths for a particular aircraft and rigging position. Here's an interesting article about the development of RAF wire.

https://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72&title=bruntons-and-the-origins-of-raf-wires

The fittings were integral with the wire and as stated above by Malpaso also allowed for adjustment. Turnbuckles were a means of adjusting round wire which was cut to length as needed and attached using eye bolts. 

https://www.westechrigging.com/rigging-hardware-turnbuckles.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPhfR6MR5m9l50NdFtCxRrBktJ77PY62gcDpzIzjWWluNy496ll-Z9xoC-XYQAvD_BwE

 

This shows some useful photos of thurnbuckles. 

 

 

One end would be attached to an eye bolt with no tensioner and the other would have the turnbuckle. You can clearly see the difference in the fittings between these and RAF wire.

Depending on the scale you model in they may not even be noticable since they were not much thicker than the wire in section. I don't add anything in 1:72, if you wanted to a simple dab of paint would be more than adequate. In 1:32 there are quite a few options including resin items from Gaspatch and wire from Bobs Buckles.

 

HTH.

 

Ian

I'm glad someone else said it this time. In practical terms, you always should check photos, but anything RFC, RNAS or RAF after 1916 or so would have had RAFwires and not turnbuckles, except for the control wires which would have been steel cables tensioned, as you say, at one end only. For those with turnbuckles I used to thicken with white glue and then overpaint, but stopped when I realised I was copying photos of other models rather than real aeroplanes.  Like RAFwire attachments, they really wouldn't be noticeable in 1/72nd, and hardly 1/48th. In larger scales, well, then the Gaspatch range does come in useful.

 

Paul.

Edited by Paul Thompson
Forgot how to spell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK. but the point of the aerofoil section of the wire is to be aligned with the airflow to reduce the drag   I don't understand how this can be achieved if riggers must twist the wire to tighten it.  How is this achieved without turnbuckles?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This a Tiger Moth but it uses RAFWire

The end of the wire turns into a tubular threaded section onto which is screwed a small lock nut and a long tubular nut with a loop on the end, which is the attachment to the mounting in the wing. The small nut is loosened, the wire is rotated to tighten or loosen the tension, aligned with the airflow then the small lock nut is re-tightened. Both ends of the wire need to be done at the same time, otherwise you end up just putting a twist in the wire. They actually do not

need doing very often. The threads on RAFwire are in opposition to each other, one end is a right to tighten and the other is left to tighten.

TM%2047-L.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotating and aligning sound the same.   Because of the comment in #16, I think that the two must act in different ways.  A screw adjustment to control the length, shortening or loosening, then with this held in place a capability to rotate the wire to the flying position.  With the lock nut fastening the wire in position.  While this would work, is it actually the way it was done?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes

its far quicker and easier than using turnbuckles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Rotating and aligning sound the same.   Because of the comment in #16, I think that the two must act in different ways.  A screw adjustment to control the length, shortening or loosening, then with this held in place a capability to rotate the wire to the flying position.  With the lock nut fastening the wire in position.  While this would work, is it actually the way it was done?

Rotating the wire loosens/tightens it depending on which way it's turned. Since one end is left to tighten and the other right, you are tightening/loosening both ends at the same time. If the threads were the same you'd be loosening one end while trying to tighten the other, which would mean no change at all.  Once it's tensioned it would then be aligned with the air flow, which essentially tightens it slightly more, then locked in place with the nuts. The threads are pretty fine so realigning with the airflow - a maximum of 1/2 turn one way or the other, would not critically alter the tension.

 

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much good information!   Thank you all for your contributions. 🥂  As I keep learning more about the details and intricacies of rigging techniques, I'll be forced to try another bipe.  😉   Keep the good stuff comin' gents!  😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're a newbie to the rigging rigmarole try a Heller bipe. The last couple I built from them came with the rigging points as holes in the wings already done for the modeller

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...