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Airfx Petlyakov PE-2 1/72


Ozzy

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17 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

One final point, by the time the Airifx kit came out, modelling was also a popular hobby behind the iron curtain, I was given a run of Airfix magazines from the 60's, and there were occasional letters from Poland and Czechoslovakia I think. 

@JWM  has been long time modeller in Poland, and maybe able to add some some details.

Ah, and as this got the brain going...

I checked the scans of the Pe-2 profile

note photo at bottom of page

AFAIK In Poland never Pe 2 were in three tone scheme.  They were in light olive green/light blue - as shown the one preserved in Polissh Army museum in Warsaw

800px-Petlyakov_Pe-2_Muzeum_Wojska_Polsk

hXrZaO_HkBpRrWIQgOmP85GkeqaOvRLmMURE3TcD

P1040313-xs.JPG

 

Depending to weather and light conditions the colours looks a bit different, but it does not look like Hu 30, anyway. But all Polish markings Pe-2 are post war! (I mean post VE day, the national chessboard in six positions were introduced in July 1945, before it was like Polish squadrons in RAF - I mean small chessboard near cockpit but instead of RAF roundels there were Soviet stars...)

Regards

J-W

 

 

Edited by JWM
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6 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

the Polish box art plane  represents a post war aircraft.   Polish units serving in the VVS used red stars

 

this is what the Polish boxing is intended to represent I presume.  A Il-10 capture in Korea, a US period color photo

 

Airfix only started using Humbrol numbers in the late 80's in the instructions.  Not sure when Airfix stopped doing their own paint @John I suspect would know that! 

Airfix would have been M3 Dark Green over a mix, M10 white and M27 dark blue IIRC,  as I distinctly remember mixing the underside colour on mine.

This was unusual on an Airfix kit, possibly the only time a mix was called out that I remember.  

 

One final point, by the time the Airifx kit came out, modelling was also a popular hobby behind the iron curtain, I was given a run of Airfix magazines from the 60's, and there were occasional letters from Poland and Czechoslovakia I think. 

@JWM  has been long time modeller in Poland, and maybe able to add some some details.

 

Poland "nominally" fielded 3 regiments of Pe-2 dive bombers before the VE-day, but actually they were not used operationally. Moreover - as was also the case of four attack regiments (on Il-2) and three fighter regiments (on Yak-3 and Yak-9M/T) - they were 80 per cent Soviet-manned, i.e. the only Polish airmen were the tail gunners (average lifetime of 7 missions achieved in 1945 was still much better than 3 missions in 1943 and 5 in 1944). The only 100% Polish-manned units were the 1st Fighter Regiment (on Yak-1b and Yak-9D) and the 2nd Night Bomber Regiment  (on Po-2LNB). Nevertheless all the aircraft from these 12 regiments sported the 25x25cm (or bigger on Il-2) Polish insignia on their noses along with Soviet red stars in standard 8 positions. The red stars were ordered to be replaced on 11th July 1945 and in some two weeks (thus a month before the VJ-day) all Polish aircraft reverted to the pre-war insignia.

 

The Il-10 was introduced into Polish AF in 1949, so all they (and the Czech-built B-33) were plain olive green over light blue - similarly to the Pe-2 and Tu-2. The picture of the Korean Il-10 shows these colours almost perfectly.

 

In the early 1970s I have built the Airfix Pe-2 (in green/brown camo over sky blue), but AFAIK the colours given by Airfix in the instruction were their M3 Dark Green (close to H86), M5 Dark Earth (a tad lighter than H29) and M25 Pale Blue (a tad greener than H65) - there was no suggestion of mixing M10 with M27 (called Midnight Blue and used mostly for the post-44 US Navy aircraft).   

 

And yes - modelling was a popular hobby behind the iron curtain since the early 1960s, mostly thanks to the wide range of GDR Plasticart 1/100 airliner kits. Then - in the late 1960s - some Airfix 1/72 kits appeared ("reverse engineered") in Poland, followed by the first indigenous Czech and Polish kits and then (in the 1970s) by the plethora of NOVO-labelled Frog kits. Both @JWM and I went this path precisely - from Plasticart airliners glued (sometimes with some help from our Dad) before 1965 up to the hundreds of kits from all over the world stacked in stash today 😀

Cheers

Michael 

 

 

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1 hour ago, KRK4m said:

In the early 1970s I have built the Airfix Pe-2 (in green/brown camo over sky blue), but AFAIK the colours given by Airfix in the instruction were their M3 Dark Green (close to H86), M5 Dark Earth (a tad lighter than H29) and M25 Pale Blue (a tad greener than H65) - there was no suggestion of mixing M10 with M27 (called Midnight Blue and used mostly for the post-44 US Navy aircraft).   

HI Michael

As I said earlier,  I took Airfix word as gospel back then.  I built the kit in 1975,  I was 9 and followed the instructions.  I also still have the plane.  I said mix the underside colour.  So I did.....

I had a look on Scalemates, they have a pdf of the very first instructions.  

here https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/2/1/9/165219-85-instructions.pdf

 

I think the 3rd boxing would have specified M25 though, the Yak-9 kit I got in 1975 did (the Il-2 kit said use M8 Sky! I still have this as well)

 

where they say to use G10 pale blue,  the G means gloss.   I presume that in the 1973 boxing, they revised the instructions to include the mix.   The initial range of Airfix paints was not that extensive, so I don't think M25 was part of the original range. 

Possibly I just did not have the colour and made a mix....it was 45 years ago.....

I said I couldn't remember another mix being advised,  but I still have their Blenheim, with a mixed blue underside, that again I remember as being specified.

the original boxing instructions are here

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/6/3/157363-71-instructions.pdf

 

and they just say 'light blue' with no paint number, also for no paint number or mix advised for Middlestone and Azure Blue.  

 

Perhaps @Richard Humm  @Ratch @davecov  maybe able to add some info on if my memory is going or if there were mixes specfied.  

 

@Ozzy,  the pe-2 model looks great in it's paint,  hope the diversions are of interest? 

 

  

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

As a mainly Armour modeller it's mainly green, grey or a yellow.

yes... I remember when British tanks were green or sand....

Then I found out about Khaki Green G3, SCC2 Brown, SCC15 and the Caunter scheme.... let alone the debate on 4BO green ah hahahahahaha  

 

Still keeps me off the streets..

 

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12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

HI Michael

As I said earlier,  I took Airfix word as gospel back then.  I built the kit in 1975,  I was 9 and followed the instructions.  I also still have the plane.  I said mix the underside colour.  So I did.....

I had a look on Scalemates, they have a pdf of the very first instructions.  

here https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/2/1/9/165219-85-instructions.pdf

 

I think the 3rd boxing would have specified M25 though, the Yak-9 kit I got in 1975 did (the Il-2 kit said use M8 Sky! I still have this as well)

 

where they say to use G10 pale blue,  the G means gloss.   I presume that in the 1973 boxing, they revised the instructions to include the mix.   The initial range of Airfix paints was not that extensive, so I don't think M25 was part of the original range. 

Possibly I just did not have the colour and made a mix....it was 45 years ago.....

I said I couldn't remember another mix being advised,  but I still have their Blenheim, with a mixed blue underside, that again I remember as being specified.

the original boxing instructions are here

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/6/3/157363-71-instructions.pdf

 

and they just say 'light blue' with no paint number, also for no paint number or mix advised for Middlestone and Azure Blue.  

 

Perhaps @Richard Humm  @Ratch @davecov  maybe able to add some info on if my memory is going or if there were mixes specfied.  

 

@Ozzy,  the pe-2 model looks great in it's paint,  hope the diversions are of interest? 

 

  

yes... I remember when British tanks were green or sand....

Then I found out about Khaki Green G3, SCC2 Brown, SCC15 and the Caunter scheme.... let alone the debate on 4BO green ah hahahahahaha  

 

Still keeps me off the streets..

 

Oops, 

 

How did that get here - must have hit "quote".

Edited by PeterB
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In respect of the Pe-2 colours, the Hu 30 over Hu 65 I mentioned earlier were from my 2010 boxing instructions. On the subject of problems determining colour, Troy mentioned the Caunter scheme on British tanks in the desert - one of the shades was "silver grey" which any number of  colour profiles in various books showed as a pale greyish blue - even the Tank Museum painted their Matilda II in it!

20180321192344-11

The Matilda is on the right whilst the A 10 Cruiser Mk II CS on the left seems to have both slate grey and "silver grey" on a Portland Stone background I think - David (the Curator) told me they often use the nearest colour that is to hand. The reason I mention this is because modern research  (including Mike Starmer) suggests the colour was actually a pale grey/green as in the Colourcoats range. The moral to this is take nothing for granted, even if it is in a book (or a museum).

 

And that is the last I will say on the subject, with apologies for the continued hijack Ozzy, but you did say you were mainly an armour modeller!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited by PeterB
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9 hours ago, KRK4m said:

And yes - modelling was a popular hobby behind the iron curtain since the early 1960s, mostly thanks to the wide range of GDR Plasticart 1/100 airliner kits. Then - in the late 1960s - some Airfix 1/72 kits appeared ("reverse engineered") in Poland, followed by the first indigenous Czech and Polish kits and then (in the 1970s) by the plethora of NOVO-labelled Frog kits. Both @JWM and I went this path precisely - from Plasticart airliners glued (sometimes with some help from our Dad) before 1965 up to the hundreds of kits from all over the world stacked in stash today 😀

Cheers

Michael 

To be frank, with Michael we were  in a privileged position due to easier access to western models - our grand lived in London... So we started to do Airfix, Revell and Frog kits in 1969 or 1970...

J-W

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12 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Looking great Ozzy, the camouflage looks really good.

Thanks Craig,

 

went through the airbrush like a dream.

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8 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

HI Michael

As I said earlier,  I took Airfix word as gospel back then.  I built the kit in 1975,  I was 9 and followed the instructions.  I also still have the plane.  I said mix the underside colour.  So I did.....

I had a look on Scalemates, they have a pdf of the very first instructions.  

here https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/2/1/9/165219-85-instructions.pdf

 

I think the 3rd boxing would have specified M25 though, the Yak-9 kit I got in 1975 did (the Il-2 kit said use M8 Sky! I still have this as well)

 

where they say to use G10 pale blue,  the G means gloss.   I presume that in the 1973 boxing, they revised the instructions to include the mix.   The initial range of Airfix paints was not that extensive, so I don't think M25 was part of the original range. 

Possibly I just did not have the colour and made a mix....it was 45 years ago.....

I said I couldn't remember another mix being advised,  but I still have their Blenheim, with a mixed blue underside, that again I remember as being specified.

the original boxing instructions are here

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/6/3/157363-71-instructions.pdf

 

and they just say 'light blue' with no paint number, also for no paint number or mix advised for Middlestone and Azure Blue.  

 

Perhaps @Richard Humm  @Ratch @davecov  maybe able to add some info on if my memory is going or if there were mixes specfied.  

 

@Ozzy,  the pe-2 model looks great in it's paint,  hope the diversions are of interest? 

 

  

yes... I remember when British tanks were green or sand....

Then I found out about Khaki Green G3, SCC2 Brown, SCC15 and the Caunter scheme.... let alone the debate on 4BO green ah hahahahahaha  

 

Still keeps me off the streets..

 

Thanks Troy,

 

its all interesting stuff with some fantastic pictures too boot.

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My instructions say 1987 (so this must've been built shortly after)

142322692.jpg

M3 Medium Green M5 Light Brown M6 Black and M13 Light Aircraft Grey (though I would have used Humbrol paints). The Czech version was listed as M3, M6, M13.

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The Airfix range of paints was pretty limited in the 1960s - nine gloss and eight matt colours were available in 1967. Around 1969 that got extended to sixteen gloss and seventeen matt colours plus gloss and matt varnishes. In late 1972 or early 1973 there was an eighteenth gloss colour and another ten matt colours (taking those to twenty-seven) added, shortly before the paint went from glass bottles to tinlets (though the thinners and liquid cement stayed in the bottles). A lot of 1960s Airfix kit instructions just give a general description of the colour without a code or a suggested mix.

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2 hours ago, Ratch said:

My instructions say 1987 (so this must've been built shortly after)

142322692.jpg

M3 Medium Green M5 Light Brown M6 Black and M13 Light Aircraft Grey (though I would have used Humbrol paints). The Czech version was listed as M3, M6, M13.

Looks fantastic Ratch,

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19 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Hi Michael,

As I said earlier,  I took Airfix word as gospel back then.  I built the kit in 1975,  I was 9 and followed the instructions.  I also still have the plane.  I said mix the underside colour.  So I did.....

I had a look on Scalemates, they have a pdf of the very first instructions.

I think the 3rd boxing would have specified M25 though, the Yak-9 kit I got in 1975 did (the Il-2 kit said use M8 Sky! I still have this as well)

 I presume that in the 1973 boxing, they revised the instructions to include the mix.   The initial range of Airfix paints was not that extensive, so I don't think M25 was part of the original range.

Don't get me wrong, Troy. I do believe you that in the Pe-2 boxing you had 45 years ago Airfix had suggested mixing (not  in equal parts I hope) M10 and M27 to get the Russian Pale Blue. I'm only curious why have they changed M25 for this mix when no other pale blue in any enamel range those days was so close to the Russian one as the Airfix M25 was. It was exactly the hue you can see on the 3rd photo sent by @JWM yesterday. And M25 and M27 were added to the Airfix enamel range in the same year, so this cannot be the reason...

1 hour ago, Richard Humm said:

The Airfix range of paints was pretty limited in the 1960s - nine gloss and eight matt colours were available in 1967. Around 1969 that got extended to sixteen gloss and seventeen matt colours plus gloss and matt varnishes. In late 1972 or early 1973 there was an eighteenth gloss colour and another ten matt colours (taking those to twenty-seven) added, shortly before the paint went from glass bottles to tinlets (though the thinners and liquid cement stayed in the bottles).

Frankly speaking I must admit that from the brush-painter point of view the chemical composition of Airfix matt enamels by far exceeded the achievements of Humbrol (not to mention the poor Revell) in this field. Not only the hues they offered were closer to the original ones (M21 is still unbeaten as RAF Dark Green) but they better co-operated with thinners and their longevity is almost unbelievable. Believe me or not, but I still do have (last five) tinlets of irreplacable M2, M9, M11, M12 and M18. A month ago I have brush-painted the Afrika Korps Panzer IVG 

using the 45-years old Airfix M9 enamel. Try to do it with a 30-years old Humbrol or 15-years old Revell one.

Cheers

Michael

Edited by KRK4m
a misprint found
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Further to @Richard Humm's post, Airfix paints were first listed in the 1973 catalogue (Richard's records extend prior to this date) M25 & M27 were both listed. Airfix paints last appeared in the 1988 catalogue, replaced by Humbrol in 1989.

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I bought by first and only Airfix Pe2 in 1968, but it never got made then because the transfer sheet was so abysmal I preferred to leave it until something better came along.  Which eventually turned out to be the Begemot sheet, and I finished it in 2017.  Not because I didn't know hetter by then, but there'd been a lot of work put into it sporadically over the years, and it is a very pretty type.  I still have an Italeri one, which is better, but better still versions are available now.  If it had lasted a few more years I could have told you what they originally quoted for the paint, sorry.

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This is an old friend. Beautiful plane abd decent kit considering it's age. One of the only two basically accurate VVS kits from the sixties wit the Frog SB. And this was much easier to built and had much more tolerable trailing edges and better looking canopies.

 

During the years I have built a couple of times. For both I cut out a hole to the lower wing to get the dive brake to look better with much modified area surroundig to them.

 

It iis a quite late production model with lesser nose-glazing, later type cooler intakes, separate exhaust stubs and short tail cone.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

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Crikey Oz, who'd have thought that building an old Airfix kit of a WWII Russian aircraft would stir up such a discussion about VVS camouflage colours.   Almost as definitive a subject as late war Luftwaffe colours.  I really fancied this kit as a boy, but by then Matchbox kits in two or three coloured plastic had an unassailable draw on my pocket money, so I am quietly lurking and watching for your instalments.

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10 hours ago, Natter said:

Crikey Oz, who'd have thought that building an old Airfix kit of a WWII Russian aircraft would stir up such a discussion about VVS camouflage colours.   Almost as definitive a subject as late war Luftwaffe colours.  I really fancied this kit as a boy, but by then Matchbox kits in two or three coloured plastic had an unassailable draw on my pocket money, so I am quietly lurking and watching for your instalments.

 

I know Dave, haddnt realised what a hot topic my build was going to be. Being an armour modeller mainly, the majority of us are happy with near enough green, panzer grey or dark yellow colour. I must admit I had a soft spot for the matchbox kits.

 

hope your keeping well, my final instalment of the finish build.

 

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Lordy, that makes me want to get mine out of the stash.  I'd never have believed those lumpy bits of mouldy old plastic could be made to look that good, and the colours look right enough to me.

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39 minutes ago, Natter said:

Lordy, that makes me want to get mine out of the stash.  I'd never have believed those lumpy bits of mouldy old plastic could be made to look that good, and the colours look right enough to me.

Thanks Dave,

 

i do like the older Airfix kits plastic, I'm still not sure of the newer mouldings. I thought the green was a little bright, but it's growing on me.

 

 

27 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Looks brilliant, Ozzy! V-P

Thanks V-P,

 

its a warm up to my Battle of Britain builds.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Hewy said:

Thats a cracking job ozzy, 👍love the camo , you'll  have to build a few more of these winged contraptions,

Thanks Glynn,

 

ive got a couple of 1/48 builds to start in July and a 1/32 Stuka as part of my planned MTO build, which will mean I've would have built more aircraft this year than armour 

 

25 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

Excellent work Ozzy!

The camouflage scheme looks great and you have done a very nice job of it.

I think you are a secret aircraft builder at heart. :) 

Thanks Craig,

 

i definitely am, it's where we all started modelling and I do like to pop back to them now and again.

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40 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

my Battle of Britain builds.

 

What you doing ozzy, one of each or keeping it raf, i know you like your german armour, so I'm guessing a 109 for sure

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