Scale issues

[Will14m]

Hi everyone.

 

I am a returning modeler now in my 60’s, and not built a model since I was a teenager. And I am thoroughly enjoying it. I am however a bit confused over this scale thing, can someone shed some light please.

As my first project I am currently in the process of building a mounted display consisting of Spitfire, Hurricane and Lanc. I started with the Spit, a Mk 1 1/48 Tamiya kit. The Hurricane was a struggle to find but eventually obtained an Airfix 1/48 Mk1 off of Ebay, the kit quality was atrocious compared to the Tamiya kit, but it was the only one I could find, even my local model shop couldn’t source one.

 

 

It soon became apparent that the Hurricane was noticeably bigger than the Spitfire, if you compared the pilots the Spitfire pilot was a small child in comparison (slight exaggeration, but you get the point). I have now just moved onto the Lanc which again is a Tamiya 1/48 Mk1 and again the figures are huge compared to both the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Am I missing something here? Surely 1/48 is the same for any model regardless of the manufacturer or the size of the original aircraft?

 

[Black Knight]

The kits are the same scale.

Problem with the figure is he has to fit into the aeroplane model which has over-thick plastic sides and canopy. A real pilot is flexible and can squish into a tight space but a plastic pilot cannot.

The aluminium on the real Spitfire fuselage is about 1.6mm thick, thats about 0.033bar mm on a 1/48 kit but on your kit the plastic is about 2mm thick. The model kit seat is also too thick so the model pilot must have a smaller bum to fit into it. 

[RODH2]

The pilots vary a lot, as do 'humans'.... but I always use a good old Monogram 1/48 jet pilot for my reference point at 1/48 scale, not that you would put one in a spitfire, of course!  But yes, a lot of variation in what a pilot should be!

 

[stever219]

Hello Will, welcome to the forum (sorry, I’ve not come across any of your previous posts).

 

You’re quite right that a 1/48th scale figure for a Spitfire should be about the same size as that for a Hurricane, Lancaster, Lightning, Canberra, Hunter or Scruggs XFGPB-5W.  

 

Unfortunately kit designers have a problem: they will never be able to produce a scale-thickness fuselage skin using injection-moulded plastic.  The wall thickness of the kit parts can be as much as 60 thou which equates to around 4 inches full scale (1.5 mm if you’re  dismalised) which is thicker than the skin of the jet you last flew in to go on holiday.  They’ve then got to get all of the gubbins that we like to see in model cockpits in and that further encroaches on available space.  The effects of this cramping will be more noticeable on a slender fuselage like the Spitfire’s than the more voluminous Hurricane or Lancaster.  

 

(Incidentally I was once able to roughly measure the depth of the fuselage frames of a York and that came to around 4 inches between the very thin outer skin and the back face of any cabin lining that there might be.)

[alt-92]

1 hour ago, Will14m said:

It soon became apparent that the Hurricane was noticeably bigger than the Spitfire.

It is bigger in 1:1, actually, by nearly 3ft.

 

Pilot figures are a whole other story.

Remember those 1:72 days? Compare old Matchbox figures next to some old Revell or Airfix ones. I used to save up matchbox ones as those were reasonably to scale.

Edited April 15, 2020 by alt-92

[Will14m]

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

The kits are the same scale.

Problem with the figure is he has to fit into the aeroplane model which has over-thick plastic sides and canopy. A real pilot is flexible and can squish into a tight space but a plastic pilot cannot.

The aluminium on the real Spitfire fuselage is about 1.6mm thick, thats about 0.033bar mm on a 1/48 kit but on your kit the plastic is about 2mm thick. The model kit seat is also too thick so the model pilot must have a smaller bum to fit into it. 

Makes sense, thanks.

[JackG]

The older boxing of Tamiya's Spitfire, you had to put the pilot in it's seat before cementing the fuselage halves together - that's how tight it was.  Might be different with their latest new tool.

 

 

regards,

Jack

[Work In Progress]

3 hours ago, Will14m said:

an Airfix 1/48 Mk1 off of Ebay, the kit quality was atrocious

The last releases of the old 1/48 Hurricane reflected the age and wear of the moulds. You may not be aware that what you have built there is the last gasp of the 1979 tooling which got its last release in 2013, not the modern 1/48 Airfix Hurricane which first came out in 2015 and is a lot more comparable to your Tamiya Spitfire in terms of general sophistication.

[Gorby]

It isn't just pilots, Tamiya figures always seem to be under sized:

Tamiya on the right and ICM on the left. The ICM figure works out to be the more realistic 1/1 size.

[Vonbraun]

[Work In Progress]

I didn't realise that Baldrick and Captain Darling had also served with the opposition during the Great War

[AWFK10]

If those are Gewehr 98 rifles they're 48.6" long, so Kanonier Sugden there is about 5 feet tall: no wonder that tunic hangs down to his knees. Some of Tamiya's early (1970s) 1/35 scale soldiers might have used him as a model.

[Gorby]

No wonder the tall one looks miserable. He knows he's the easier target.

[MilneBay]

The reason that pilot figures can be somewhat bereft of attention to scale is quite simple - they were only ever included in kits for people who didn't want to go to the bother of detailing the cockpit. 😉 

[bhouse]

If they were English you could bet that the one on the right would be known as "Lofty" 😉

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

9 hours ago, Gorby said:

No wonder the tall one looks miserable. He knows he's the easier target.

Yep being 6’7” I know the feeling well. 😐

[Will14m]

On 15/04/2020 at 15:53, JackG said:

The older boxing of Tamiya's Spitfire, you had to put the pilot in it's seat before cementing the fuselage halves together - that's how tight it was.  Might be different with their latest new tool.

 

 

regards,

Jack

Nice work Jack, puts my attempts to shame. How did manage to roll the pilots sleves up?

[Will14m]

On 15/04/2020 at 16:03, Work In Progress said:

The last releases of the old 1/48 Hurricane reflected the age and wear of the moulds. You may not be aware that what you have built there is the last gasp of the 1979 tooling which got its last release in 2013, not the modern 1/48 Airfix Hurricane which first came out in 2015 and is a lot more comparable to your Tamiya Spitfire in terms of general sophistication.

Hi. I tried to find a more recent kit, I couldn't find one on ebay or Amazon and my local model shop could source a Mk1 in 1/48 scale either.

[stever219]

1 hour ago, Will14m said:

Hi. I tried to find a more recent kit, I couldn't find one on ebay or Amazon and my local model shop could source a Mk1 in 1/48 scale either.

Hannants have the latest incarnation of the Airfix new-tool Hurricane with 303 Squadron markings in stock at £22.99 and, as far as I know, their mail order operation is still functioning.

 

[Work In Progress]

It has only in the last couple of months been re-released, which is probably why you couldn;t find one at the time. For ease of identification...

 

Final release in 2013 of the old tool, the one you bought: 

 

First release in 2015 of the new tool:

 

2016 re-release with new decals and added tropical theatre parts (but still includes all the parts you need for a Battle of Britain aircraft if you use after-market decals):

 

2017 Sea Hurricane release (another which also contains all the parts you need for a Battle of Britain aircraft if you use after-market decals):

Current re-release with different B of B decals 

[Welkin]

On 4/16/2020 at 10:43 AM, bhouse said:

If they were English you could bet that the one on the right would be known as "Lofty" 😉

And his mate would be "Shorty"!

[JackG]

4 hours ago, Will14m said:

Nice work Jack, puts my attempts to shame. How did manage to roll the pilots sleves up?

Thank you - yes  that pilot was from the Spitfire Vb Tropical boxing, so he was molded in short sleeves and shorts.  Some digging in my hard drive, found the more pertinent subject from Tamiya's Spitfire Mk.I (1993 tooling):

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

[Will14m]

Thanks everyone for your input, I've started my Lanc now, so I'll post that build as it progresses, I may well replace the Hurricane with the later kit at some point.