iainpeden Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Jay I don' t think any of us need correcting - there are obviously different sources which say, marginally, different things and until somebody can get hold of some official documentation making it clear we won't know for certain. I'm going to stop worrying about it and get back to modelling them! May the Phorce be with you all Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, iainpeden said: They state that the a/c were delivered with the designation RF-4Es but on the upgrade from the APQ-99 radar to the AN/APQ-172 radar became RF-4EJs. The fighter F-4EJs which were converted to recon platforms became the RF-4EJ Kais. The plot thickens. Despite being published, I'm pretty sure that this is incorrect. 17 hours ago, Spooky56 said: The Kai designation just means the airframe has received an upgrade - just like the KWS (I think) or ICE upgrades the Luftwaffe F-4F received for example. The Japanese refer to them as F-4EJ and following upgrade F-4EJ Kai, RF-4E and following upgrade RF-4E Kai, the F-4EJ converted to recce role became RF-4EJ and following upgrade RF-4EJ Kai...if that's how the Japanese designate them then that's fine by me. Hasegawa also use those designations or at least the distinct F-4EJ, RF-4E (no J) and RF-4EJ (converted F-4EJ)...need to check if they include the Kai modifications. Yes, Kai means "upgrade/update" but in the case of the JASDF F-4s, it refers to a very specific set of upgrades to the F-4EJ and that model only. These included those items visible to the modeller such as Multi-function displays and new HUD in the cockpit, large antenna on the spine, J/APR-6 RWR antennas on the wingtips and fin tip, protruding light on the tail, and lightning arresting strips on the radome. Other improvements that are not visible to the modeller include incorporation of the AAM-3 and ASM-2, new radar/central computer/INS etc. The late addition Recce version, the RF-4EJ received some upgrades in conversion that were also part of the "Kai" standard, but not all of them. These include the larger antenna on the spine, protruding light on the tail, J/APR-6 RWR antennas everwhere. No upgrades in the cockpit, and no lightning arresting strips on the radome. Also added was a HF radio in the tail which creates some new panel lines on the tail and a vent on the left upper rear fuselage. Additionally a RADALT was added with antennas on the bottom of the gun trough. Neither of these changes are found on the F-4EJ Kai. Hasegawa and in the Model Art Profile (the definitive reference on JASDF Phantoms) refer to only the following models: F-4EJ: Originally delivered fighter version RF-4E: Originally delivered recce version F-4EJ Kai: Fighter aircraft upgraded in the 80s/90s to prolong their usefulness RF-4EJ: Fighter aircraft upgraded to incorporate podded Recce capability with other improvements. 17 hours ago, Mountain goat said: However: - RF-4EJ was also the unofficial designation used by McDonnel in its marketing in the early 1970s to differentiate the customer. Several American or US-centric aviation publications erroneously copied this, and I believe I have seen the designation mentioned in a Squadron book on the Phantom. I'm moving so all my books are in boxes at the mo. - RF-4E Kai and RF-4EJ Kai are unofficial designations for the aircraft that recieved some similar updates as the F-4EJ Kai, mostly RWR I believe. Happy to stand corrected as all this info comes from me brain. Books being beyond reach and all. Jay +1 Cheers, Hoops Edited May 31, 2020 by Hoops grammar 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain goat Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) Hi 23 hours ago, iainpeden said: May the Phorce be with you all Still having no access to books I realised Akira Watanabe, who I regard as a consistently safe and dependable source of knowledge regarding modern Japanese military aviation, and whose website is very accessible for non-Japanese speakers, explains the difference between RF-4E and RF-4EJ succinctly. If still in doubt, there's also flyteam's concise fact sheet and photos of the 15 individual RF-4EJs. Jay Edited May 31, 2020 by Mountain goat 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I am currently working on a book of photos of the F-4EJ, with lots of colourful schemes, which should be available for ordering in a couple of months on BM and via the Asian Air ARMS SIG. Even though I don't really do 1/72, this kit is really tempting. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldwin8 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 FineMolds keep trolling us with images. I'll take the bait. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldwin8 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 FineMolds continues the updates. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldwin8 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 More upper main fuselage mould images. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Amazing how they make these moulds, like to see how they did these years ago. But wait, there's sink marks, the rivets are all wrong, stop the presses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Exactly the same way, except that they were hand-tooled rather than using CAD, wire and spark-eroding machines etc. I built a Matchbox kit a year or so ago, and was amazed by the fit of parts. Their toolmakers must have been incredibly skilful. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain goat Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, baldwin8 said: More upper main fuselage mould images. This looks serious. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Rear fuselage Source: https://www.facebook.com/finemolds.co.jp/posts/2988953561218961 V.P. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Interesting. Why have a different spine piece? Are there differences between Phantom types? Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 54 minutes ago, Red Dot said: Interesting. Why have a different spine piece? Are there differences between Phantom types? Andy Probably to more effectively capture the panel lines on the top? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 It will certainly help maintain the panel lines on top after any joining and sanding, but maybe molded this way to feature the refuelling receptacle options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I thought that too Hoops, but then the curvature is exactly the same for both methods. Refueling panel may be the answer. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Looking at past posts the sprue that has the spine on also contains the F-15 style centre fuel tank, curved inner wing pylons, nose U/C and the covers for the catapult hook panels. Perhaps Finemolds are looking at making a U S Navy version at some time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The catapult hook panels are the best evidence that Finemolds at least want to have the option of producing an F-4J/S in the future (An F-4B/N would require them to invest in tooling for a thin wing. But even if not, they could do a late model RF-4B (one of the few built with the thicker wing) if they decide to do a reconnaissance nose for a JASDF RF-4E release). The option to have a spine with or without a flying boom refuelling receptacle just supports this. Jonathan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 The fuselage is moulded without the engine/exhaust seal strips. As they's be quite flimsy as individual parts my guess is that they'll come moulded onto the exhaust nozzles. So FM can produce both nozzle types (-10 and -17 with long petals and -8 and -15 with short petals) with the correct seal strip (cut back and straight). So another pointer into the direction of short nose Phantoms in the future... J 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Hi Jeffrey, Hope you and your wife are well. Well spotted, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Stilwell said: The catapult hook panels are the best evidence that Finemolds at least want to have the option of producing an F-4J/S in the future (An F-4B/N would require them to invest in tooling for a thin wing. But even if not, they could do a late model RF-4B (one of the few built with the thicker wing) if they decide to do a reconnaissance nose for a JASDF RF-4E release). The option to have a spine with or without a flying boom refuelling receptacle just supports this. Jonathan. Or you could be cheap like Hasegawa and simulate it with decals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Finemolds don't do things like that Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Red Dot said: Hi Jeffrey, Hope you and your wife are well. Well spotted, Andy Hi Andy, we're well, thank you, I hope you're too! Well, as it turns out, the seal strips ARE going to be separate parts, on the same runner as the nozzles,a s posted on ARC... Cheers, Jeffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldwin8 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The flood continues for sneak peeks. The fuselage photos show the spine section installed. Detailing usually reserved for larger scales. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain goat Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The first of this line of hopefully glorious Phantoms isn't out yet I know - but I'm hoping FineMolds won't forget to include an F-4F in its Phamily at some point in the near future. On 6/11/2020 at 12:55 PM, Stilwell said: An F-4B/N would require them to invest in tooling for a thin wing. My bet is: they have already. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 8 hours ago, Mountain goat said: The first of this line of hopefully glorious Phantoms isn't out yet I know - but I'm hoping FineMolds won't forget to include an F-4F in its Phamily at some point in the near future. My bet is: they have already. Jay Likewise, for the F-4F, Finemolds would have to invest in a slatted (thick) wing. And non-slotted stabilators. Of course, the former would also allow them to kit later US variants, and the latter would be needed for earlier variants. I am curious whether Finemolds will go the Hasegawa route, and tool up to allow most or all of the non-Spey engined variants to be produced. Or whether they will stick with a limited number of variants that the think will sell the best. Jonathan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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