Gene K Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) On 10/7/2020 at 3:47 AM, Stilwell said: ... I'm not sure what is driving the price increase on the JASDF retirement schemes kits. From a Twitter feed: Quote F-4EJ Kai Last Flight Memorial "Yellow" F-4EJ Kai Last Flight Memorial "Blue" http://finemolds.co.jp/202011-NEW.html Comes with Nano Aviation seatbelts, rearview mirrors and panel lights as a bonus ! Gene K Edited October 22, 2020 by Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) Specific parts & pods - ref. FP42 - McDD RF-4EJ Phantom II - 501 Hikotai - release March 2021 https://twitter.com/finemolds_t V.P. Edited October 24, 2020 by Homebee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Homebee said: Specific parts & pods - ref. FP42 - McDD RF-4EJ Phantom II - 501 Hikotai - release March 2021 https://twitter.com/finemolds_t Hopefully the TAC pod allows it to be built in the taxiing configuration, with the front end opened up as a guard to protect the forward looking camera windows from dirt and debris kicked up by the nose wheels: But as it was closed during parking, I expect not: Jonathan. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 The images of RF-4EJ-specific parts have me wondering what's so different about the gun fairing in this version? For Fine Molds to go to the trouble of moulding a new fairing (I think that's it in the picture of the moulds, next to the ECM pod) suggests that there is something significantly different about fairing on these jets and that it's confined to those modified for the role. Presumably the standard fairing will still appear on Sprue F (forward fuselage parts) in the RF-4EJ boxing. Andrew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, Andrew said: The images of RF-4EJ-specific parts have me wondering what's so different about the gun fairing in this version? A couple of extra lumps. Jonathan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 If it isn't obvious, I highly recommend NABE3's website: http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/ For walkarounds of current and preserved aircraft, and photos of older JSDF and US types. Jonathan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Thanks Jonathan, I can (just!) see them ahead of and between the louvred sections of the fairing. Something I’d not noticed before; time to go hunting for good underside photos of these jets, I think. Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stilwell said: A couple of extra lumps. Jonathan. They happen to be RADALT antennas in this case. Also of note in the photos is Panel 901 that is only present on the RF-4EJs. I'd be willing to bet that won't be pointed out on the kit, but you may scribe if you are looking for just a little bit more accuracy. Hoops Edited October 24, 2020 by Hoops 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Hoops said: They happen to be RADALT antennas in this case. Thanks for that (and the Panel 901 info). Not an original feature for the RF-4EJ, by the look of it: So a later addition. (This aircraft is preserved next to the terminal at Ibaraki Airport, the civil side of Hyakuri air base, and did not receive the "kai" features. Or the RADALT antennae, apparently.) Looking through my sources, it looks like all the pods were in use by the RF-4EJ before they were upgraded with the "kai" features, for anyone looking to cross kit to the earlier configuration. Jonathan. Edited October 25, 2020 by Stilwell Edited for clarification. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Thanks very much Hoops for the information - RADALT makes sense for these jets. Thanks also to Jonathan for the observation regarding RF-4EJ (non-Kai) pod use. More of the 501 Squadron gun-nose jets are shown in this blog; I count four aircraft that were used without receiving the Kai upgrade - 373, 374, 376 & 412. Andrew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Check the Model Art Profile F-4 in JASDF Service book. There are other minor differences too, which I doubt will be included in the kit. Google translate helps with the captions. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Andrew said: I count four aircraft that were used without receiving the Kai upgrade - 373, 374, 376 & 412. I think it was the RF-4EJs converted from consecutive serial numbers, plus 412 and 418: https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6371/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6372/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6373/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6374/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6376/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/87-6412/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/97-6418/photo These aircraft didn't receive the grey / green "Euro-1" style paint scheme, the REDALT mod or the "kai" conversion (although they did get the radio modification characterised by the fin on the spine which all "kai" standard aircraft have, plus the non-kai F-4EJs at Gifu), and were retired by around 2012. Because the aircraft got re-serialised from x7-8xxx to x7-6xxx as part of the RF-4EJ modification, change the -6 to -8 in the above links for photos of the aircraft before they were converted. Including 57-8373, one subject of the Fine Molds F-4EJ non-"kai" boxing. For whatever reason, 57-8375 wasn't modified with its siblings, instead becoming an F-4EJkai with 8 Hikotai, and is now preserved in the museum next to Misawa air base: https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-8375/photo Also it would seem that panel 901 is associated with the RADALT mod, as RF-4EJs without the RADALT antennae don't appear to have it: > time to go hunting for good underside photos of these jets, I think. Not brilliant resolution, but it is a start: For what it's worth, "second generation", "kai" configured, Euro-1 camouflaged RF-4EJs: https://flyteam.jp/registration/47-6335/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/47-6347/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/67-6380/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/77-6392/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/77-6397/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/77-6403/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/87-6406/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/07-6433/photo Another good site for JASDF Phantom pictures: http://crash136.web.fc2.com/f-4_301_340.html Jonathan. Edited October 25, 2020 by Stilwell Edited for completeness. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Stilwell said: Looking through my sources, it looks like all the pods were in use by the RF-4EJ before they were upgraded with the "kai" features After further consideration, I'm not longer convinced this is the case, as the pre-"kai" aircraft pictured carrying the TAC and TACER pods is 87-6406. As kitted in Hasegawa's 2002 04164 release with a resin TAC pod, 406 did a lot of testing work (including the RADALT) in the pre-"kai" configuration in a one-off light blue/grey scheme: Before being brought up to full second generation RF-4EJ configuration (including the "kai" upgrade and the Euro-1 style scheme) by 1999. It would not surprise me if the first generation RF-4EJs (South East Asia style scheme) only carried the LOROP pod. Jonathan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 from the Japan Aviation Research Group book (a spotters guide list of all SDF airtframes):- RF-4EJ 57-6371 57-6372 57-6373 57-6374 57-6376 87-6406 and was then modified to RF-4EJ Kai standard, which is why you see it twice 87-6412 97-6418 RF-4EJ Kai 47-6335 47-6347 67-6380 77-6392 77-6397 77-6403 07-6433 As i mentioned before, from the Model Art book, the main differences between an F-4EJ and RF-4EJ (lets ignore the Kai bit), were the two radalt antennae below the gun muzzle, the top RHS instruments on the cockpit instrument panels both front and rear, the small panel on the RHS of the nose to access the radalt equipment, viewfinders on the canopy rails in the rear cockpit, panel lines are different on the front edge of the fin to accept the AN/ARC-190 HF radio and lastly a small shallow hole in the LHS of the fin below the serial number for the cooling of the HF equipment. The latter is shallow as it leads to a small fan. Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Stilwell said: I think it was the RF-4EJs converted from consecutive serial numbers, plus 412 and 418: https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6371/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6372/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6373/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6374/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-6376/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/87-6412/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/97-6418/photo These aircraft didn't receive the grey / green "Euro-1" style paint scheme, the REDALT mod or the "kai" conversion (although they did get the radio modification characterised by the fin on the spine which all "kai" standard aircraft have, plus the non-kai F-4EJs at Gifu), and were retired by around 2012. Because the aircraft got re-serialised from x7-8xxx to x7-6xxx as part of the RF-4EJ modification, change the -6 to -8 in the above links for photos of the aircraft before they were converted. Including 57-8373, one subject of the Fine Molds F-4EJ non-"kai" boxing. For whatever reason, 57-8375 wasn't modified with its siblings, instead becoming an F-4EJkai with 8 Hikotai, and is now preserved in the museum next to Misawa air base: https://flyteam.jp/registration/57-8375/photo Also it would seem that panel 901 is associated with the RADALT mod, as RF-4EJs without the RADALT antennae don't appear to have it: > time to go hunting for good underside photos of these jets, I think. Not brilliant resolution, but it is a start: For what it's worth, "second generation", "kai" configured, Euro-1 camouflaged RF-4EJs: https://flyteam.jp/registration/47-6335/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/47-6347/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/67-6380/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/77-6397/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/77-6403/photo https://flyteam.jp/registration/87-6406/photo Another good site for JASDF Phantom pictures: http://crash136.web.fc2.com/f-4_301_340.html Jonathan. all good stuff Joanathan but bear in mind the serial numbers i mentioned above. The Model Art book is the best source for JASDF Phantoms Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilwell Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Red Dot said: bear in mind the serial numbers i mentioned above. Thanks for the full list; I was struggling to identify all of them through an internet search with a hangover this morning. I have added links for the extra two aircraft I missed originally. > The Model Art book is the best source for JASDF Phantoms Indeed. Assuming you have access to a copy. When I was posting from upstairs I was of the opinion that I did not, but now I am downstairs in the book stack, I find I have two. But for those who don’t, the posts above will provide a single source for the registration numbers and links to photos. > (lets ignore the Kai bit) I think that is missing the point that I am interested in. Up until this weekend, I thought the RF-4EJ fleet was one reasonably homogenous population, aircraft starting off in the South East Asia style scheme, then some getting the “kai” upgrade and the Euro-1 style scheme. But that is not the case, which could be significant from a modelling perspective. There are / were two distinct JASDF RF-4EJ fleets - the South East Asia scheme pre-"kai" fleet, and the Euro-1 scheme "kai" fleet. The aircraft in the former fleet did not get converted and migrate into the latter fleet, instead they were retired as the former. And there was 406, as a "funny". So, for an accurate RF-4EJ model in the Euro-1 scheme, it should have the “kai” modifications (and the RADALT, if you want to go to that level of detail). Or in other words, the upcoming Fine Molds RF-4EJ kit out of the box (with extra detail modifications as you see fit). For an accurate RF-4EJ model in South East Asia scheme, it shouldn’t have the RADALT or the “kai” mods, and probably shouldn’t carry the TAC or TACER pods. So back dating the Fine Molds RF-4EJ kit, or cross kitting it with the non-“kai” F-4EJ. Or, if you take the Hasegawa route, hope the boxing you have includes the earlier non-“kai” outer wings (or sand off the RWR receivers if it doesn’t), and use the non-“kai” fin tip and brake chute cover. Or build what you like, it is a hobby, after all. Jonathan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Thanks very much Andy and Jonathan for the list of aircraft and the links to images. They will both prove very handy. 4 hours ago, Stilwell said: > The Model Art book is the best source for JASDF Phantoms Indeed. Assuming you have access to a copy. Doubly indeed. Sadly, I do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dot Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, Andrew said: Thanks very much Andy and Jonathan for the list of aircraft and the links to images. They will both prove very handy. Doubly indeed. Sadly, I do not. Jonathan has a spare 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverkite Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 18 hours ago, Stilwell said: Thanks for the full list; I was struggling to identify all of them through an internet search with a hangover this morning. I have added links for the extra two aircraft I missed originally. > The Model Art book is the best source for JASDF Phantoms Indeed. Assuming you have access to a copy. When I was posting from upstairs I was of the opinion that I did not, but now I am downstairs in the book stack, I find I have two. But for those who don’t, the posts above will provide a single source for the registration numbers and links to photos. > (lets ignore the Kai bit) I think that is missing the point that I am interested in. Up until this weekend, I thought the RF-4EJ fleet was one reasonably homogenous population, aircraft starting off in the South East Asia style scheme, then some getting the “kai” upgrade and the Euro-1 style scheme. But that is not the case, which could be significant from a modelling perspective. There are / were two distinct JASDF RF-4EJ fleets - the South East Asia scheme pre-"kai" fleet, and the Euro-1 scheme "kai" fleet. The aircraft in the former fleet did not get converted and migrate into the latter fleet, instead they were retired as the former. And there was 406, as a "funny". So, for an accurate RF-4EJ model in the Euro-1 scheme, it should have the “kai” modifications (and the RADALT, if you want to go to that level of detail). Or in other words, the upcoming Fine Molds RF-4EJ kit out of the box (with extra detail modifications as you see fit). For an accurate RF-4EJ model in South East Asia scheme, it shouldn’t have the RADALT or the “kai” mods, and probably shouldn’t carry the TAC or TACER pods. So back dating the Fine Molds RF-4EJ kit, or cross kitting it with the non-“kai” F-4EJ. Or, if you take the Hasegawa route, hope the boxing you have includes the earlier non-“kai” outer wings (or sand off the RWR receivers if it doesn’t), and use the non-“kai” fin tip and brake chute cover. Or build what you like, it is a hobby, after all. Jonathan. I think any given Hasegawa F-4EJ Kai comes with both normal and Kai outer wings, because Hasegawa for Kai kits was reboxing the KX-4 kit with and without its decals, for this I'm sure because I bought (then sold) and checked many boxes prior the advent of the limited edition 00XYZ series. The only unknown are JASDF RF-4E boxes as I only owned a dozen of 00772 boxes and still have a single 02075 box and they all had/have both Kai and common outer wings Luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) An FM bonus (of sorts) -- one can go to this FM post to download 1/72 pdf side, top, and bottom view drawings. Google translation of the text accompanying the drawings is: We have prepared a full-color painting drawing for making the kit. Click each image to see a larger image. The PDF data version can be printed out in approximately 1/72 scale by selecting B4 size (horizontal) "actual size" and printing . Although the translation says "approximately", the prints perfectly match the kit! Too bad FM didn't arrange the graphics to also accommodate letter size paper (not hard at all). Looks like FM will post similar graphics for the December special scheme releases. Gene K Edited October 28, 2020 by Gene K 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldwin8 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Courtesy of @Gene K, a picture showing the "open with a drill" dimples in the wing of the EJ. All of which would only apply to the US Navy/Marine versions. Already mentioned are the similar dimples inside the forward upper engine intakes. Paging through Japanese F-4 publications feature units that flew at NAS Atsugi. My money is on a release which includes one of those units. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) Too quiet around here ... Drooped Ailerons A nice unexpected feature of the FM kit-- while starting to cut the ailerons to droop them, I found that FM had done most of the cutting!! If one decides to droop the ailerons, I suggest this short (5min) procedure: 1. Dig a V trough on the underside of the top wing piece at the aileron hinge line -- gives the aileron room to "fold" and facilitates bending it down. DON'T CUT THOUGH! 2 & 3. Lightly score/cut the aileron sides from the bottom, (no need to cut the jink panel line on top of the wing). 4. Very Lightly score the panel line on the top of the aileron. 5. Carefully bend the aileron down to your liking. That action may show some light stress lines at the hinge line, but no harm done. If hard to bend, score the Step 1. trough. Not quite scale since the "real" ailerons are hinged on the bottom, but it's SIMPLE and looks great ... and it would take a real IPMS nit-pickin' judge to determine otherwise. Gene K Edited November 4, 2020 by Gene K 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Excellent, thanks very much Gene. I suspect that I'm pre-empting your next post here, but what's your solution for the speedbrakes (the airbrake proper and the interior)? Possible donations from the Monogram kit? Asking for a friend... Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Andrew said: I suspect that I'm pre-empting your next post here, but what's your solution for the speedbrakes (the airbrake proper and the interior)? Possible donations from the Monogram kit? Asking for a friend... That's one thing for sure Done that myself following Gene's advice: Monogram airbrakes and scratch built bays, using alu foil (from a beer can, no less ) like this Also, there was an old Eduard PE set that allowed you to rebuild the whole airbrake and bay with PE, although I'm afraid that specific set has long gone OOP... Ciao 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) On 11/4/2020 at 6:25 PM, Andrew said: ... what's your solution for the speedbrakes (the airbrake proper and the interior)? Thanks, Andrew. Yes, I'll be using the beautifully detailed Monogram speed brakes -- of which I have a "veritable plethora" (thanks, Howard Cosell). ((Very few of you youngsters will remember ABC Sportscaster Cosell from the 1970s)) For the interior I'll use my Silhouette cutter (since I'll be doing "a few" sets) along with Rosie The Riveter. Below is my first (rough) trial using .010 plastic. The small actuating cylinders will be simple -- plastic rods and thin wire. The "real" brakes normally don't droop much, so the above is a little overkill ... but crew chiefs occasionally asked for them to be fully opened before shutdown. Fun fact: the speed brake interior recesses have purportedly been known to house toilet paper rolls. Gene K Edited November 6, 2020 by Gene K 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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