1/72 - McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II by Finemolds - (R)F-4C/D/E/EJ & J released - new boxings in 2024

[Gene K]

1 hour ago, AlCZ said:

So, why FM make a Japanese only, and not one Japanese and one International with markings for USA, Israel, Iran, Turkey, South Korea for example ?

Hello, AlCZ -- I appreciate your sentiments and would also have liked an "International" issue ...

 

but I fully believe they are coming!

 

As Craig suggested, the Japanese market is sizeable  ... and hopefully the capital springboard for FineMolds to produce other variants (a fact they have said is dependant on the sales of these first models).  In the interim, the F-4EJ is basically a hard wing F-4E, so it would be easy for you to get appropriate decals that meet your seeming requirement that an airplane to be worthy must have been used in combat. 

 

As hinted by FM's layout of the sprues, the packaging, and the breakdown of the various parts like the fuselage, FM clearly (to me at least) has designed the kit to facilitate the production of other variants, both long and short nose.  

 

Quote

 Vietnam Aces or Israeli Phantoms were most attractive subject...

 

The hard wing E was used in Vietnam, and the first Israeli Phantoms were hard wing. For me, given the apparent excellence of the FM F-4EJ kit, it will unquestionably be worth the effort/expense of purchasing  decals. Many of us probably already have a stash.

 

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I don´t know a japanese marking is attractive for world...

 

HUH? There are many, many beautiful (!)  commemorative markings available that cater to  the Japanese market  ... as well as to many in the international modelling community. In that regard, I have a large collection of Hasegawa F-4EJ kits, but I appreciate your point that those kind of decorative markings are not for everyone.

 

Hope you get to enjoy the FM Phantom  ... in whatever version that suits you.  

 

Gene K

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gene K

[71chally]

5 hours ago, Gene K said:

Which versions interest you (besides the British variants)? 

 

Gene K

Well, they all interest me Gene, but it's a case of prioritising kits to buy and build.  Absolutely no question, yes for British K & M, it would be lovely to see the Fujimi Phantom finally challenged by a new kid.

After that it would be Gs for me, purely because I got to see them, German Fs, Greek & Turkish Es for the same reason.  Then US Navy versions, followed by USAF variants, Japan quite low down the list but only because they seem so remote to me, there are some lovely JASDF Phantom schemes mind.  Sometimes something as simple as a good picture of a subject can persuade me to buy a kit of it.

 

So, I kinda talked my way back into almost buying any version of the F-4, and if I had the means I would do that - but I must prioritise, sadly.

 

I think that this kit will be so successful for Finemolds that hopefully we will see many more versions.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by 71chally

[alt-92]

24 minutes ago, 71chally said:

After that it would be Gs for me

Would like to see one back again in 1/72 as well.

There was a Fujimi one and Hasegawa's 1991/2009 release, but wasn't one of these moulds lost/damaged?

[Gene K]

2 hours ago, alt-92 said:

Would like to see one [F-4G] back again in 1/72 as well.

Yes for sure! Luckily I assembled and cast a few Hasegawa noses way back when.

 

Quote

   ... kinda talked my way back into almost buying any version of the F-4 ... . 

 

Hopefully you'll have a windfall allowing you to do that, 71chally!

 

Gene K

Edited September 19, 2020 by Gene K

[Gene K]

HLJ review here. In Japanese but Chrome Translate does a fair job. 

 

Some new pictures, but nothing we haven't already seen/heard in this thread.

 

Gene K

[Navy Bird]

7 hours ago, AlCZ said:

I don´t know a japanese marking is attractive for world...

 

I thought this Japanese scheme was so attractive, I converted the old Revell F-4F into an F-4EJ Kai:

 

 

I can't wait for this new Finemolds kit - there are so many beautiful Japanese schemes. And this new kit looks killer.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[alt-92]

I hope they do well. Hasegawa could do with a bit more competition on the Phantoms 

 

 

[AlCZ]

Yup, this is nice, very colourful, but this is a "anniversary"  scheme a same case as Tiger meet. But IMHO  for many modellers are most attractive in combat used aircraft, before "(air)show aircraft".  Or some times a squadron - for me it is a Jolly Rogers (for example).  And naturally - Japanese F-4EJ never used in combat, so for me is more attractive a combat machine, with kills. And i know a japanese company, must make a "japanese" box, but why in two different boxes ? So, one with japanese and one with non-japanese camos were more logical. Sometimes is relax when you can build a kit straight from the box, without you must invest to new decals... But this is a my personal sight only ! 

 

 

 

[alt-92]

3 hours ago, AlCZ said:

Sometimes is relax when you can build a kit straight from the box

Oooh, I dunno... a nice, clean early JASDF F-4EJ in light grey & white would be pretty, I guess

 

[71chally]

for the more knowledgeable, what else could be built straight from the box, but with different decals?

[CT7567]

58 minutes ago, 71chally said:

for the more knowledgeable, what else could be built straight from the box, but with different decals?

The F-4EJ (pre-Kai upgrade) is essentially identical to early production F-4Es, so with no modifications to the kit itself options include USAF (prior to FY 71, as built), Israel, and Australia.  To the best of my knowledge all other operators of 'gun nose' variants only used the later slatted wing.

[XV571]

20 hours ago, CT7567 said:

The F-4EJ (pre-Kai upgrade) is essentially identical to early production F-4Es, so with no modifications to the kit itself options include USAF (prior to FY 71, as built), Israel, and Australia.  To the best of my knowledge all other operators of 'gun nose' variants only used the later slatted wing.

A lesser known operator of hard wing F-4Es is Iran. The IIAF received 32 FY69 F-4E-46/-47-MCs (69-7711 to 7742) under project Peace Guard in 1971. There are a couple of photos in the Osprey combat aircraft volume 37 'Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat'.Iranian markings are available on Hi-Decal 72-057.

 

For USAF F-4Es, as well as the 'vanilla' SEA scheme, you could choose a Thunderbirds jet in full livery or a NF-4E in either white & international orange or overall SEA with white wings. You'd need to source a pre-Midas short gun fairing for early F-4Es or the NF-4E as the FM kit doesn't appear to have one. It'll be interesting to see how well the one in the Hasegawa kit fits. I'm also planning to see how well the Revell F-4F outer wing sections match up as a source for a slatted F-4E (before FM do the decent thing and give us an actual kit).

 

For those that don't want to do a standard line jet or one of the many JASDF anniversary schemes for the F-4EJ don't forget there were Air Combat Meet temporary schemes with various colours; the MiG-21 silhouette painted on 07-8428 in 1985, cloud type, splinter, coloured bands and overall greys pre-dating the final single grey scheme. Most of these can use standard squadron markings. For F-4EJKais, the blue sea camouflage, the digital sc RF-4EJs in the Euro 1 style or the brown & two greens first used on their RF-4Es.

 

I'm going to have to stop now or I'll talk myself into more than the four (two of each) I've already pre-ordered from Hobbysearch!

 

Jonathan

[Giorgio N]

Regarding adding decals for other users, we should keep in mind that not only the Japanese market is very large but Fine Molds is also a company that is not really well distributed outside Japan. We often discuss here how their home market is important for Japanese companies, the same is even more true for FM.

Said that, they may well decide to add other decals in a future box, we can only wait and see.. or just use aftermarket decals

[Aardvark]

On 9/19/2020 at 10:37 PM, Gene K said:

As Craig suggested, the Japanese market is sizeable  .

 

3 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Japanese market is very large

Gentlemen, I understand the Japanese market is big, but is it really bigger than the rest of the world?  Or even how much larger (if larger) is the European market, or the UK market?

I would just like to see numbers or graphs of comparative analysis of market volumes.

3 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Fine Molds is also a company that is not really well distributed outside Japan.

How true is it that FM is a small company in the Japanese market compared to Hasegawa, Fujimi and Tamiya?  Those,  is there any data on what volume of the domestic Japanese market is FM?

 

My personal assumptions are that FM models in the rest of the world are more geared towards modelers than children.

 

Because I suspect that if FM models somehow miraculously make it to British or German supermarkets, the average consumer would prefer Revell and Airfix Phantom  over FM Phantom?

 

As for my, JASDF Phantom not interesting for me, the plane should be in the marking of the country that made it, but this is my personal position.

Therefore, I will wait until FM makes USAF and USN versions.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Jinxman]

Very much looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on this plastic. Simples. 😀

[baldwin8]

1 hour ago, Aardvark said:

 

Gentlemen, I understand the Japanese market is big, but is it really bigger than the rest of the world?

No it isn't, but look at many kit manufacturers and you will see many will cater to their domestic customers. Airfix's Sabre 4 a perfect example.

I believe Finemolds are releasing the first version as a special gift for their loyal patrons. Maybe too because the majority of these were manufactured in Japan. My opinion.

[Stilwell]

> look at many kit manufacturers and you will see many will cater to their domestic customers.

 

I am suspicious that with Fine Molds this will extend beyond the JASDF versions to the US versions as well.

To the extend that I am expecting any USAF versions to include options based at Misawa AFB and Kadena AFB, any USN versions to include options based at NAS Atsugi and any USMC versions to include aircraft based at MCAS Iwakuni.

 

        Jonathan.

[alt-92]

6 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Gentlemen, I understand the Japanese market is big, but is it really bigger than the rest of the world?  Or even how much larger (if larger) is the European market, or the UK market?

I would just like to see numbers or graphs of comparative analysis of market volumes.

[....]

I don't think that's the issue, more that if >75% of your sales are domestic anyway, why bother with a major international presence?
Granted, they're not opposed to use distributors in US/EU, but it's not an absolute must for them.

 

 

Quote

Because I suspect that if FM models somehow miraculously make it to British or German supermarkets, the average consumer would prefer Revell and Airfix Phantom  over FM Phantom?

 

Probably. But not in a supermarket.
Overseas imports, think Hasegawa prices (€40-45).  50% more than the average AFX. 
Revell? Even cheaper at €20, but you gets what you pays for (older Monogram 'Toom with raised details).

[Robertone139]

So, what is the perspective wallet damage for this one?

[Stilwell]

> So, what is the perspective wallet damage for this one?

 

Hobby Link Japan says a Japanese retail price of 3,900 yen (currently ~£30.93 / US$39.36), but they offer a 20% discount, so 3,120 yen (currently ~£24.75 / US$31.49).

Plus postage, taxes and charges.

 

Retail price elsewhere? Depends if you can find someone who stocks Fine Molds. Hannants doesn't, but Aviation Megastore does.

Aviation Megastore aren't showing the new Phantom kits in Futures yet, but the Fine Molds F-14 kit is...

Well, HLJ says the Japanese retail price for the F-14A kits is 4,500 yen. AM have the F-14A kits in stock now at € 53.95 including tax. 

But they have the same boxings with slightly different kit numbers in Futures at a provisional price of € 44.95

Maybe they found a cheaper supplier, maybe the exchange rate has shifted in their favour. I'm curious they appear happy to shift these at a lower price while potentially leaving the earlier ones un-sold for the moment.

 

But if the pricing is equivalent, the Phantom kits should come in at around € 38.96 at the cheaper price, or € 46.76 at the more expensive one, if the cheaper Tomcats are a clearance bargain or similar).

I suspect they will start at the higher end.

 

In the USA, Sprue Brothers has some Fine Molds but currently no aircraft kits. A kit they do have which is listed on HLJ at 4,500 yen retail is listed on SB as $116 retail, their price $92.99. Which would equate to ~$100 retail for the Phantoms, or $80 if they do a similar level of discount. Assuming they get the kits in.

 

    Jonathan.

[Gene K]

 

1 hour ago, Stilwell said:

In the USA, Sprue Brothers ... Which would equate to ~$100 retail for the Phantoms, or $80 if they do a similar level of discount.

  No way!!!! Wouldn't be many SB sales at that price.

 

My guess is around $40 from SB.

 

As an aside, HLJ sells the Meng DR.1 for $72, Sprue for $70.

 

Gene K

[Stilwell]

It is possible my choice of the "Girls und Panzer" 1:20 Jeep kit was not an appropriate comparison (although it does have the same Japanese retail price as the Tomcat kits).

The same calculation using the Fine Molds 1:12? scale JGSDF figure gives a US retail price of $54, and an SB discount price of $48.

 

> Wouldn't be many SB sales at that price.

 

My main observation from this exercise is that SB currently don't have any FM aircraft kits for sale, so it has not been possible to compare like with like.

I don't keep track of the SB stocking policies, so I will let someone else comment on whether they are likely to stock the new FM Phantom kits in the first place.

 

    Jonathan.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Stilwell
Edited for content

[Hoops]

10 hours ago, Stilwell said:

Well, HLJ says the Japanese retail price for the F-14A kits is 4,500 yen. AM have the F-14A kits in stock now at € 53.95 including tax. 

My local hobby store has the Fine Molds F-14As at 3600 yen, and I'd say that's a pretty average street price in Japan.

 

Cheers,

Hoops

[Gene K]

From FineMolds:

 

The shipping date has been decided for another step in the company.

 

Shipped by our company on October 8
1/72 Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-4EJ fighter http: //finemolds.co.jp/FP/FP37.html 
1/72 Air Self-Defense Force missile set http: //finemolds.co.jp/FP/FP39.html 
1/72 F-4 Pitot tube (long nose) http: //finemolds.co.jp/www/AA,AC,AH.html # aa52 …

Shipped on October 15th
1/72 Air Self-Defense Force F-4EJ Kai http: //finemolds.co.jp/FP/FP38.html 

 

 

 

Markings (YAWN) are also posted : 

 

 

 

Gene K

Edited September 24, 2020 by Gene K

[giemme]

1 hour ago, Gene K said:

 

 

Gene, how many have you ordered?????    

 

   

 

Ciao