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1/72 - McDD (R)F-4C/D/J/E/EJ Phantom II by Finemolds - (R)F-4C/D/E/EJ & J released - new boxings F4D & E in March 2024


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9 hours ago, iainpeden said:

That clears things a little; 2 boxings with one for the original F-4EJ and one for the Kai. 

 

?? That has always been the case since the initial FineMolds announcement- they have listed the separate models, as well as the "supporting" kits of metal tubes and JASD weapons.

 

In the FM Phantom page Homebee linked above, they confirm that both kits will be released simultaneously.  :yes:

 

Gene K

Edited by Gene K
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13 hours ago, iainpeden said:

That clears things a little; 2 boxings with one for the original F-4EJ and one for the Kai. 

 

As Hannants don't list Finemolds as one of the manufacturers they stock does anybody know of a UK seller?

 

 

AJAviation in West Drayton stocks a number of Finemolds kits:

http://ajaviation.co.uk/fine-molds/ 

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18 hours ago, iainpeden said:

That clears things a little; 2 boxings with one for the original F-4EJ and one for the Kai. 

 

As Hannants don't list Finemolds as one of the manufacturers they stock does anybody know of a UK seller?

 

49944416857_2d9027784a_b.jpg

The price in Japan is pretty reasonable, although HLJ has stopped taking pre-orders due to demand at the moment.

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1 hour ago, VMA131Marine said:

49944416857_2d9027784a_b.jpg

The price in Japan is pretty reasonable, although HLJ has stopped taking pre-orders due to demand at the moment.

By the time you add import VAT and the £11 handling fee plus the weak pound not that cheap.

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20 hours ago, iainpeden said:

That clears things a little; 2 boxings with one for the original F-4EJ and one for the Kai. 

 

As Hannants don't list Finemolds as one of the manufacturers they stock does anybody know of a UK seller?

 

When the F-14 came out PM Models stocked it so hopefully they will with his kit as well.

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2 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

The price in Japan is pretty reasonable, although HLJ has stopped taking pre-orders due to demand at the moment.

After their somewhat pricey F-14, perhaps FM's Phantom Phamily will be more competitively priced - one may live in hope.

 

Meanwhile, look what I found in the attic: Hasegawa's Phantom Phamily début in their 1990 catalogue (I know, the age shows). The project had been announced earlier, but at least here the different variants were illustrated... some speculation on my part but it appears the in-house modeller had borrowed a couple of Fujimi's decals.

 

2020-05-28_09-38-42

 

Jay

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FM kits have never been cheap and this kit is no exception. It seems cheaper than the Tomcat, however even in Japan it's still 50% more expensive than the Hasegawa F-4EJ.

Said that, IMHO the quality justifies the price. I'll personally wait a bit to see what prices are offered by other Japanese shops, but I'd really like to add one of these to my stash. I already know that I may have to pay something around £40 to have one, it's not pocket money but if in return I get a great state of the art kit of the Phantom, so be it.

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1 hour ago, 71chally said:

Ok, naive question, what's the differences between the two boxings, or between the F-EJ and Kai?

I take it EJ is simply an F-4E for Japan?

Yes the EJ was the original variant of the E for Japan. The Kai (meaning something like modified) is the result of a Japanese update program, with new radar, ECM systems and other equipment. Externally they feature antenna domes on the wingtips and on the fin cap and a few other different antennas. Minor details that however Hasegawa previously decided to reproduce with completely different outer wing panels and fin caps in their kits. Guess FM will follow a similar pattern

Edited by Giorgio N
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1 hour ago, 71chally said:

Ok, naive question, what's the differences between the two boxings, or between the F-EJ and Kai?

F-4EJ Kai is the an upgraded F-4EJ --  improved avionics and adar, and thus added/improved capability such as ground attack and anti-shipping. The major external differences are the addition of various bumps and antennae, including on the wintips and  the top trailing edge of Vertical Stab, as well as the addition of strips on the radome.  Lots of good stuff here and here

 

And if you like good Phantom videos, check this one out.

 

Gene K

 

EDIT: Sorry, Giorgio,  we posted at the same time and I didn't see yours.

Edited by Gene K
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31 minutes ago, Gene K said:

And if you like good Phantom videos, check this one out.

Does anyone think Gene K tires of looking at F-4 videos? I'm sure he doesn't.....  :thumbsup:

 

I noted that 333 in the video Gene linked had the stab triangular reinforcement plates only on the bottom side.

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3 hours ago, 71chally said:

Ok, naive question, what's the differences between the two boxings, or between the F-EJ and Kai?

I take it EJ is simply an F-4E for Japan?

The Japanese ordered 140 F-4EJs, 2 were built by MCAIR, 4 were built by MCAIR but assembled in Japan by Mitsubishi and the remaining 134 were built by Mitsubishi. The RF-4EJs (14) were all built by MCAIR at St. Louis. 

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1 hour ago, baldwin8 said:

I noted that 333 in the video Gene linked had the stab triangular reinforcement plates only on the bottom side.

Eagle Eyes, as usual, Craig.  In the pic that shows the molds with the triangular plate, it looks like they are on the bottom based on the curvature of the stab:

 

QqExGXP.png

 

But then, since everything is reversed and not that detailed, I really can't tell ... . 

 

Some things I noted on the video: the exclusive use of F-15 Centerline Tanks on the Kai (I assume the EJ carried that style also?); the absence of radome strips on some of the Kai jets;  the prevalent use of aerodynamic braking; and the brute strength of the Phantom in those close up shots.  :penguin:

 

There are many more really great EJ and Kai videos linked to the one I noted above.

 

Gene K

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3 hours ago, iainpeden said:

The Japanese ordered 140 F-4EJs, 2 were built by MCAIR, 4 were built by MCAIR but assembled in Japan by Mitsubishi and the remaining 134 were built by Mitsubishi. The RF-4EJs (14) were all built by MCAIR at St. Louis. 

Iain,

The JASDF RF-4EJ variant is distinct from the RF-4E. The original RF-4E acquired by Japan around 1974 were indeed build by McAir and are the camera nosed reconnaissance version.

 

The RF-4EJ evolved from the F-4EJ built by Mitsubishi - after the introduction of the F-15J into JASDF service 15 now surplus F-4EJ and F-4EJ Kai were converted for the reconnaissance role to supplement the original camera-nosed US built and supplied RF-4E. 

 

The RF-4EJ and RF-4EJ Kai retain the original gun nose of the fighter they had originally been built as, their reconnaissance capability coming from external pods and sensor suites etc

 

I hope that clears up any confusion

 

Rick

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No confusion Rick, I was referring to the original build RFs.

My source (Spirit in the Skies -World Air Power Journal 1992) quotes the number of F-4EJs converted to RF-4EJ Kai specification as 17. Interestingly (for me anyway 😀) the same source says that (original) RF-4 EJs which received  the same electronic updates as those 17 EJs were also given the suffix “Kai” meaning you had 2 different models of the Phantom sharing a designation - RF-4EJ Kai.

 

edit. 

The same source says the original RF-4EJs were “almost identical to the RF-4C, the only difference being deletions eg the RHAW suite” - which is either a typo or means they had different engines to the F-4EJs. More research I think.

 

edit again.

the RF-4EJ does not have a gun but the RF-4EJ Kai might.

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Think there's a bit of confusion in the use of the term RF-4EJ... my understanding is that the original proper recce aircraft, built by McDD were designated simply RF-4E as all other aircraft of this variant.

At some point 11 of the original 14 aircraft received an update (new radar and sensors) and became known as RF-4E Kai. Again, no J in the designation, just RF-4E.

 

The designation RF-4EJ and EJ Kai was given as Rick said to the F-4EJ and EJ Kai that were converted as additional recce aircraft using an external pod. These externally are hard wing F-4E, with the relevant Japanese modifications.

 

While I've sometime seen the designation RF-4EJ used to indicate the original Japanese recce Phantoms, I believe that this is a mistake from which this confusione arises

Edited by Giorgio N
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Giorgio - you might be right there. Most of what I have seen refers to the original recce bird as the RF-4EJ. However I have just had a quick look through  the KoKu-Fan Illustrated No.3 Phantom. While it is in Japanese, I can pick out the designation F-4EJ for the fighter version but the recce a/c is referred to as the RF-4E (no J). 

 

You live and learn.

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Four more images for our Fine Molds regular update. The last image is the most interesting for me, the main fuselage, showing a lack of forward section which I must assume a separate nose will be used. Feeding the "possible future release" frenzy.

 

TOO8Por.jpg

 

BxM9GzP.jpg

 

dAB8Dey.jpg

 

IjZPPgD.jpg

 

For all to enjoy.

 

Craig

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Looking at the last picture, could that be a one piece moulding to cover both engines. The area at the fin shows a curve which indicated to me it goes over to the other side.

 

Regards

Robert

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(Non Phantom obsessives look away now!)

Just adding a bit to our discussion on the designation of the Japanese recon a/c and whether it's RF-4E or RF-4EJ. I have been going through a book called  Defenders of Nippon: F-4 Phantom II

Published by Kaburaya Books in 2002 authored by, Peter Fearis, Peter Scott and Glenn Sands who are, or were, members of the IPMS (UK) Japanese aircraft Special Interest Group.

 

They state that the a/c were delivered with the designation RF-4Es but on the upgrade from the APQ-99 radar to the AN/APQ-172 radar became RF-4EJs. The fighter F-4EJs which were converted to recon platforms became the RF-4EJ Kais.

 

The plot thickens.

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Oops, didn't look away 🤣

 

I'm still sticking to my previous answer

 

The Kai designation just means the airframe has received an upgrade - just like the KWS (I think) or ICE upgrades the Luftwaffe F-4F received for example. 

 

The Japanese refer to them as F-4EJ and following upgrade F-4EJ Kai, RF-4E and following upgrade RF-4E Kai, the F-4EJ converted to recce role became RF-4EJ and following upgrade RF-4EJ Kai...if that's how the Japanese designate them then that's fine by me.

 

Hasegawa also use those designations or at least the distinct F-4EJ, RF-4E (no J) and RF-4EJ (converted F-4EJ)...need to check if they include the Kai modifications.

 

Back to the FM kit, it appears to be shaping up into a very nice kit :)

 

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48 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

The plot thickens.

I'm a bit confused as I had always thought Japanese Phantom types were very well documented. As I understand it:

- F-4EJ, interceptor, introduced in 1971. Found to be quite ineffective in some conditions during the Belenko-affair.

- RF-4E, recce, introduced in 501 Sqn in 1974 to replace RF-86F.

- F-4EJ Kai, interceptor and tactical fighter, modification of 90 aircraft undertaken from 1987 onwards.

- RF-4EJ, 15 unmodified F-4EJs that were repurposed into recce fighters in the early 1990s to complement the dwindling RF-4E fleet in 501 Sqn. As Giorgio said earlier, their recce equipment was in pods. 

 

However:

 

- RF-4EJ was also the unofficial designation used by McDonnel in its marketing in the early 1970s to differentiate the customer. Several American or US-centric aviation publications erroneously copied this, and I believe I have seen the designation mentioned in a Squadron book on the Phantom. I'm moving so all my books are in boxes at the mo.

- RF-4E Kai and RF-4EJ Kai are unofficial designations for the aircraft that recieved some similar updates as the F-4EJ Kai, mostly RWR I believe. 

 

Happy to stand corrected as all this info comes from me brain. Books being beyond reach and all.

 

Jay

 

Edited by Mountain goat
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