1/72 - McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II by Finemolds - (R)F-4C/D/E/EJ & J released - new boxings in 2024

[Gene K]

17 minutes ago, 71chally said:

I think Iain means that 'stabs' is s US term, tailplane being the British term.

 Opps ... my bad.

 

I should have said stabilator. For no good reason, I think of  "tailplane" as being a horizontal stabilizer with elevators as opposed to a one piece moveable stabilator. 

 

Thanks for the edification.

Gene K

[71chally]

Not your bad at all Gene, just different ways of saying things.

Interesting nuance, as we also have all moving tailplanes (all flying-tail) and trimable tailplanes.

 

Anyhow, that kits looks damn fine.

[Mountain goat]

I wonder if the recce versions are considered as well. Probably, if they're doing a family, 1990s Hasegawa-style. Never enough RF-4C/ E methinks. And F-4Gs.

 

Jay

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mountain goat

[iainpeden]

11 hours ago, Gene K said:

Slats and slots are not "USA terminology", rather they are long standing (standardized) aerodynamic terms.

 

The F-4 slotted stabs, as far as I know, were manufactured as such, but I do not know the technicalities of the manufacturing process. However, the leading edges were not an "add on" done at any other level -- again, as far as I know. The F-4E stab is not just a flat piece of honeycomb and metal, but rather an integrated, somewhat complex inverted airfoil shape to aid in pulling the tail down (thus lifting the nose as for takeoff). Its effectiveness was attested to by stab tip scrapes when some experienced Phantom pilots first flew the F-4E and slightly over-rotated on takeoff (the nose came up earlier and faster than previous models).

 

If you have definitive knowledge of the slotted stab manufacturing process,  I'd appreciate hearing it.

 

Thanks,

Gene K

Hi Gene

I was in a  bit of a hurry when I posted my question so I'll try to clarify.

First of all thanks for the explanation of the structure of the tailplane and indeed the aerodynamic reasons for the development in design. - not my area.

 

So, my point.  The tailplane was originally designed with the "solid" (for want of a better description) leading edge. When the slots were added I believe the original leading edge was not "simply" redesigned with slots but that they were added by, again simply, adding a strip of metal along the leading edge which was attached by brackets.

 

This meant that the planforms and area of the unslotted and slotted are not exactly the same - you could lay an unslotted tailplane over a slotted one and geometrically they would not be congruent.

 

This was mentioned on here some time ago when somebody realised that many of the model manufacturers were using the dimensions of the unslotted tailplane but adding the slot detail within those dimensions when it was actually an extension - albeit slight in all scales except 1:1.

 

Hope that clears up my point.

Iain

 

[iainpeden]

10 hours ago, Gene K said:

 Opps ... my bad.

 

I should have said stabilator. For no good reason, I think of  "tailplane" as being a horizontal stabilizer with elevators as opposed to a one piece moveable stabilator. 

 

Thanks for the edification.

Gene K

Who was it said the British and Americans are the same people separated by a common language?  We could talk afterburner and reheat too; if it's a we're tallking about Phantom it's 'burner, if it's a Lightning it's reheat.😀

[Gene K]

15 hours ago, Mountain goat said:

I wonder if the recce versions are considered as well.

Jay, I love your positive assumption. 

 

Gene K

[Mountain goat]

7 hours ago, Gene K said:

Jay, I love your positive assumption. 

 

Gene K

Speculation -> hypothesis -> conviction. That's the scientific way right? 😀

 

Jay

[phantom61]

Hi Mates.

I read the whole discussion with interest ...
my consideration
luckily a new Phantom ... which promises well
we hope they make the Phantom family
UK versions included...

 

ciao 

Silvano

[Gene K]

Here's the latest WOW from FineMolds:

 

 

Impressive rear cockpit:

 

 

Check out the unbelievable detail on the end of the splitter plate. And compare the intake "grills" to those on the new Airfix Phantom. 

 

 

Not too much to mod to get an F-4E front Instrument panel:

 

 

Just keeps gettin' better.

 

Gene K

[Harry Lime]

The more I see of this, the more jaw-dropping it gets!

 

Mark.

[Red Dot]

Having been to their factory, and seen their true dedication to a project, it will be a wonderful kit

 

Andy

[Gene K]

3 minutes ago, Red Dot said:

Having been to their factory ... .

Lucky you, Andy.

 

Do you have any contacts there that would take feedback on having separate ailerons and speedbrakes?

 

Gene K

[Red Dot]

No, sorry Gene. It was all arranged through a friend of a friend.

 

However, looking at the photos, you are about 2 years too late for suggestions as the molds are manufactured.

 

It would mean a re-tooling the whole wing sprues and that won't happen for obvious reasons.

 

It looks like they have kept it simple, as with other companies too.

 

You can't have everything

 

Andy

[Gene K]

2 hours ago, Red Dot said:

It looks like they have kept it simple, as with other companies too.

Have you looked at the preceding pictures?????     I hope you're not alluding to or excusing the Airfix Phantoms.

2 hours ago, Red Dot said:

You can't have everything

Obviously ... trade offs have to be considered and risks assessed. However, given the unprecedented level of detail that FM has so far incorporated, why not suggest to them two additional areas that  could be considered if FM's future plans include other Phantom versions ... that may require new wing molds?

 

Gene K

 

[iainpeden]

How do I explain to my better half (her description!) that all the money we have saved by not being able to go on holiday this year can be recycled into Finemold Phantoms?

[Red Dot]

Hi Gene,

 

I meant keeping the model's wing design simple. Why not send them a mail and ask about flaps etc?

 

Andy

[JeffreyK]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:22 PM, iainpeden said:

So, my point.  The tailplane was originally designed with the "solid" (for want of a better description) leading edge. When the slots were added I believe the original leading edge was not "simply" redesigned with slots but that they were added by, again simply, adding a strip of metal along the leading edge which was attached by brackets.

 

This meant that the planforms and area of the unslotted and slotted are not exactly the same - you could lay an unslotted tailplane over a slotted one and geometrically they would not be congruent.

 

This was mentioned on here some time ago when somebody realised that many of the model manufacturers were using the dimensions of the unslotted tailplane but adding the slot detail within those dimensions when it was actually an extension - albeit slight in all scales except 1:1.

 

this.

J

[Gene K]

Note that the "one piece canopy" is two pieces.  

 

 

Looks like the clear parts include the nose gear door with the landing light (nice!!), and the HUD Combining Glass,  but not sure what the other pieces are. Since those pieces are on a separate tree, it may indicate  plans for trees for other variants.

 

Gene K

Edited May 26, 2020 by Gene K

[iainpeden]

Potential for a one piece windshield maybe?

[Gene K]

1 hour ago, iainpeden said:

Potential for a one piece windshield maybe?

Good point!

 

Gene KL

[Creepy Pete]

Or recce nose glass.

[Aardvark]

On 21.05.2020 at 11:26, iainpeden said:

We could talk afterburner and reheat too; if it's a we're tallking about Phantom it's 'burner, if it's a Lightning it's reheat.😀

No need to quarrel over trifles!  Just say and write - "forsage"!

😁😁

On 5/22/2020 at 10:02 PM, iainpeden said:

How do I explain to my better half (her description!) that all the money we have saved by not being able to go on holiday this year can be recycled into Finemold Phantoms?

I don't know how and what need say.....but I know what to wear before this difficult talk 

and I probably would have visited a lawyer before such a conversation and made a

will!  Just in case!

😉😁

On 5/22/2020 at 3:43 PM, Gene K said:

Not too much to mod to get an F-4E front Instrument panel:

 

Is the arrangement of the devices the same with the F-4E or does it have any specific differences inherent only in the Japanese version?

 

B.R.

Serge

[Gene K]

12 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Is the arrangement of the devices the same with the F-4E or does it have any specific differences inherent only in the Japanese version?

Here's a good resource for Phantom cockpits, for example this for the F-4E:

 

 

The biggest difference from the FM F-4EJ IP are the Multi Functional Displays.

 

Gene K

[Homebee]

Sources: 

http://www.finemolds.co.jp/FP/FP37&38kanagata/FP37&38_moldsP.html

https://www.facebook.com/finemolds.co.jp/posts/2938445996269718

 

V.P.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Homebee

[iainpeden]

That clears things a little; 2 boxings with one for the original F-4EJ and one for the Kai. 

 

As Hannants don't list Finemolds as one of the manufacturers they stock does anybody know of a UK seller?