F-104 Starfighter in combat

[Slater]

During it's career, the F-104 saw limited combat with the USAF in Vietnam, the Pakistan-India conflict, and (I think) Taiwan vs China. Could it be said to have been a disappointment or adequate in these actions?

[exdraken]

I think it faired well in Pakistan!

They only had a few... and they got a kill , no?!

Guess it was not suited for the Vietnam theater... 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by exdraken

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

Three to five victories (including one Ouragan forced to land) in 1965 Kashmir war against one aircraft lost and between one and four victories during 1971 war with (probably) four aircraft lost in air-to-air combat. Due to arms embargo Pakistan was already in process of replacing Starfighters with Mirage III Es during the 1971 war, but covert US supplies of spare parts and Jordanian aircraft ˝on loan˝ nevertheless kept them going throughout the conflict. Republic of China Starfighters claimed two Peoples republic of China J-6 fighters against one aircraft lost and her pilot killed, according to F-104 Starfighter units in combat (Osprey) by Peter E. Davis. During Vietnam war one USAF F-104 wandered into Chinese airspace and was shot down by a quartet of J-6/MiG-19 fighters. There were other conflicts, but without air-to-air combat involving F-104s. Cheers

Jure

[NoSG0]

Post discusses the Riccioni "double attack"

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/f-104-starfighter.14410/page-4

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by NoSG0

[bentwaters81tfw]

Sadly, one of the guys to ask died recently. He flew them in SEA for Uncle Sam. Also the higher performance models the SVAF took delivery of.

His all time favourite aircraft. Had his fair share of SAMs fired at him too.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello NoSGO

Whether fluid or rigid flying formation is more suitable remains one of never answered combat aviation questions. I think in 1918 Sholto Douglas decreed rigid five planes wedge formation for his squadron. Previously many pilots had been separated from or lured away from formation and then easily finished off by a pair or more German fighters. Air victories decreased slightly, but losses dropped significantly. During WWII ˝Deadly duo˝ Gentile and Godfrey, among others, experimented with fluid pair formation. During Vietnam war North Vietnamese had flown in all kind of formations (and single aircraft) under more or less strict instructions from ground controllers. So had Israelis but on the other hand regularly dissolved their formations and fought individually if found this advantageous. Over Vietnam USAF started with fluid four, which by then had deteriorated significantly towards four aircraft welded wing formation. I read somewhere that a standing joke at the time was that in combat wingmen had been allowed to utter only three phrases: to report their position, to inform their leader that his aircraft is burning and to say ˝I'll take the fat one.˝, obviously reserved for night missions in local bars only. Cheers

Jure

[SAT69]

On 4/28/2020 at 8:05 AM, bentwaters81tfw said:

Sadly, one of the guys to ask died recently. He flew them in SEA for Uncle Sam. Also the higher performance models the SVAF took delivery of.

His all time favourite aircraft. Had his fair share of SAMs fired at him too.

Forgive my ignorance. What were the higher performance models and what is the SVAF? 

[bentwaters81tfw]

7 hours ago, SAT69 said:

Forgive my ignorance. What were the higher performance models and what is the SVAF? 

South Vietnamese Air Force. The HP  was a 104-A with a J79-GE-19 engine. Apparently it went like excrement off the proverbial. Only about 20 made, and all were eventually handed to SVAF

[Giorgio N]

14 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

South Vietnamese Air Force. The HP  was a 104-A with a J79-GE-19 engine. Apparently it went like excrement off the proverbial. Only about 20 made, and all were eventually handed to SVAF

F-104 with the Vietnamese air force ? They never got any F-104, in fact many US advisors considered the F-5 the most advanced aircraft that the SVAF could hope to maintain operational and this and the A-37 is all the jets they got.

I believe the confusion comes from this: a number of those 20-something As (and Bs) with the GE-19 was indeed handed to an Asian country, but it was Taiwan that got them in 1970. This delivery was meant to compensate for the removal of a similar number of F-104A that had been sent to Pakistan a few years earlier

These aircraft had previously served with 319th FIS, that had disbanded the year before and the Taiwanese "super" F-104A seem to have served into the early '80s.

[bentwaters81tfw]

2 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

F-104 with the Vietnamese air force ? They never got any F-104, in fact many US advisors considered the F-5 the most advanced aircraft that the SVAF could hope to maintain operational and this and the A-37 is all the jets they got.

I believe the confusion comes from this: a number of those 20-something As (and Bs) with the GE-19 was indeed handed to an Asian country, but it was Taiwan that got them in 1970. This delivery was meant to compensate for the removal of a similar number of F-104A that had been sent to Pakistan a few years earlier

These aircraft had previously served with 319th FIS, that had disbanded the year before and the Taiwanese "super" F-104A seem to have served into the early '80s.

I can't confirm this as the pilot in question died earlier this year. I know he flew the GE-19 powered jet in Asia, and he did a tour on 104s in 'Nam. He also flew F-4s in 'Nam. Possibly where the confusion lies.