Hurricane cross kitting ?

[Wulfman]

Would I be correct in attaching the Arma Hurricane 1 wing to the Arma Hurricane llc fuselage to give a Hurricane lla ?
 

Wulfman

[gingerbob]

It seems a reasonable idea.

[RJP]

Sounds an expensive solution to a cheap problem.  You could get busy with a file and some sandpaper and remove (omit?) the guns and blisters.  Then just drill a few holes as needed and you are pretty much there.  Season to taste for panel lines.

 

 

[Work In Progress]

It's an expensive solution unless you also want to make one of the possibly one, possibly two examples of the Sea Hurricane Ic (ideally the one example which was photographed) or the one-off experimental cannon-armed V7360, in which case you can use all the bits left over for those purposes.

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Work In Progress

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Wulfman said:

Would I be correct in attaching the Arma Hurricane 1 wing to the Arma Hurricane llc fuselage to give a Hurricane lla ?
 

Wulfman

unless you must have a IIa NOW,  I think that Arma will do a IIb at some point,  as that is the next obvious version to do,  with masses of potential marking options and then a IIa is just some panel lines filling.  

If you can fill and rescribe some lines, and drill some new gun and shell ports, it's an easy conversion.

 

As has been stated, all you need to make a A wing from a C wing is to remove the cannon bumps, fill and rescribe the wing panels, and add the front gun ports.  

below you can see the  A, B and C wing. 

 

 

 

Unless you want to make the Sea Hurricane Ic, or the sole Mk.I tested with cannon wing in 1940, it's an expensive exercise.   A pragmatic approach would be to try modifying the C wing, and if unhappy with that, then cross kit. 

[Wulfman]

Hi Troy

 

Thanks very much for the info. My modelling skills ain’t what they used to be so I will probably take the easy way out.

I do have in mind the Sea Hurricane 1c (some day maybe).

 

Regards Wulfman

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wulfman]

Thanks everyone for your advice, much appreciated.

 

Wulfman

[AltcarBoB]

I am halfway through an Arma Hurricane IIb and if you are okay with the cost go for the cross kit option. The Arma wing moulding is a thing of beauty and it would be a shame if a slip with a file or scalpel ruined the fine details.

 

Having said that the plastic is quite soft and should cut, sand and fill quite nicely.

 

If your kits come with bombs or even just bomb racks I will happily bite your hand off. I can't find aftermarket 250lb GP bombs anywhere just the later 500lb MC bombs.

Edited April 11, 2020 by AltcarBoB

[AltcarBoB]

If your unsure of the fit try contacting Arma on  [email protected]  I sent them a query on a Friday and got an answer first thing Monday.

[Graham Boak]

Half-decent 250lb bombs are provided in the Revell Hurricane IIb (not otherwise recommended) and also, I believe, in the Airfix Swordfish.  The latter is not only recommended but comes with alternative weapons.  better check that it has the bombs first!  (But it is still a lovely kit, so you wouldn't be too upset.)

[AltcarBoB]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Half-decent 250lb bombs are provided in the Revell Hurricane IIb (not otherwise recommended) and also, I believe, in the Airfix Swordfish.  The latter is not only recommended but comes with alternative weapons.  better check that it has the bombs first!  (But it is still a lovely kit, so you wouldn't be too upset.)

Handy to know I plan to do a Stringbag some time

[72modeler]

@Wulfman,

 

Here are my thoughts on your crosskitting project. If you get the basic Arma Mk 1 kit without all the bells and whistles, it's very reasonable in price, and you could then mate that to the Arma Mk IIc fuselage, also in  basic kit form. Bob's your Uncle- a Mk IIa! Then, if you have one of the Hasegawa Mk 1 Hurricanes, you can crosskit the excellent Arma Mk 1 fuselage that's left over to the Hasegawa kit, as it has horribly overstated fabric detailing, and the Arma kit has full length fuselage halves, unlike the Hasegawa Hurri. I have both kits and did some checking- the lower wing of the Hasegawa kit has a longer section aft of the trailing edge than the Arma kit, but you can cut that to fit; the section forward of the  wing root is also a little longer and more narrow than the Arma kit, but again can be trimmed/shimmed a bit and it looks like it will fit pretty decently. The only downside to using the Hasegawa wing is that the wheel bays are not correct at the rear wall, but since you will have the Arma kit already, you can see what needs to be done to correct the Hasegawa kit wheel bays, and it's really not difficult- you just need to build the front and back wall/main spar so it goes straight across instead of following the outline of the kit wheel bay.

 

Me, I would just take the Arma IIc kit and sand off the blisters, fill the case chutes underneath, then either drill out the .303 case chutes or use rectangular strips of black decal stock; fill in  the panels associated with the 20mm cannon fit and rescribe the panels for the machine gun installation. Since the Arma plastic is soft,  and the scribing so petite, you can fill the incorrect lines with Mr. Surfacer or grey paint/primer and gently sand flush. If you don't feel confident with re-scribing, you could always put the correct panel lines in place using a fine  point drafting pencil, which will look very convincing on a 1/72 scale model, especially one in camouflage paint- just remember to seal the pencil panel lines with the clear coat of your choice at some point. Don't sell yourself short- with a little practice on some scrap kit parts, you can get the hang of it pretty quickly and add a skill to your tool bag at the same time. Hell, it took me quite a while to screw up the courage to actually put putty on and sand a plastic model kit! Lots of people here on BM  have been where you are and can talk you through the process, whichever route you decide to take.

Mike

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

if you have one of the Hasegawa Mk 1 Hurricanes,

the one problem with Mike, is that Hasegawa have always been quite pricey in the UK, and the Mk.i or pretty much any Hase 72nd  and 48th Hurricane has not been readily available in the UK for years.

I think the last one was a Sea Hurricane dual set in 72nd, and in 48th it was the Kings Air Race IIc,  I bought 4 when Hannants were doing them half price and even the they were £17.50 ...

 

A good 72nd Mk II fuselage is the Heller (reboxed by Smer) kit.  The nose is too narrow, (fixable)  and it has raised panel lines,  but the fabric is really well done, and IIRC it's the right length.    The wings are too wide at the tip,  but that's fixable..... I have a part done one in a box with one wing fixed and the other not as a demonstrator.

 

But, given Arma now 'own' the 72nd Hurricane market (except for the Airfix fabric wing) I expect them to do a IIb,  it was widely used by Polish and Czech units, and is the most photographed version used by the VVS as well,  (hint to Arma, if you do a IIb, include the VVS made airfilter)  I was surprised they did not set the IIc kit up in such a way all that was needed was a new wing tree,  and that they did not tool up the Sea Hurricane parts as well.   

 

cheers

T

[72modeler]

@Troy Smith

I hadn't forgotten about the Heller Mk IIc, but my thinking was the skinny nose might be a deal breaker, as I think was one of the same issues with the old Airfix Mk IV kit. I sure hope that Arma has already planned to do more variants, as I personally  would love to see a Mk IId, Mk IV, and Mk V, but if not, what they have already released can certainly be converted into those with some already available aftermarket bits and a little serious modeling! Hoping you and yours are safe and healthy where you are.

Mike

[Troy Smith]

4 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

as I think was one of the same issues with the old Airfix Mk IV kit.

 

it was an issue with the 1978 Airfix Mk.I kit, which is basically decent shape, but raised panel lines and no wheel well or cockpit detail.

 

the Airfix Mk.IV dates from 1957, and is a product of that era!   

 

In the US, their 1972 Hurricane I/IIb kit was issued described on the box as a Mk.IV, but with the same box art of the 402 Sq IIb, and no Mk.IV decals AFAIK.

It does contains rockets and plates, 40mm guns, as well as bomb rack and 44 gal drop tanks, leaving aside the battleship rivets and to shallow spine,  OOB it's a Mk.I

Funny, it's only typing this out that I now see a connection from this to the 60's 1/48th Monogram kit, which had the same optional bits....

(the Monogram kit OOB is closest to a IIa BTW.)   

 

While I'm at it, Airfix at one point in the Humbrol Heller era did rebox the Heller kit, I think as part of a BBMF set, I also have it in a Humbrol box.

 

the other two 72nd Airfix kits are the 2009 Hurricane IIc (also issued as IIb in the Red Star set) which suffers from being based on what appear to be reputable planes, but are in fact, garbage,  so the kit is hopeless accuracy wise, and then 2012 fabric wing kit.

 

I digress as usual.....

 

cheers

T

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    Slightly O/T , but i have always thought about cross kitting a hawker hurricane IIc with a hawker henley 

  Sort of a what if ground attack a/c , with cannon outer wings and merlin XX engine 

      cheers

        jerry 

 

 

[Wulfman]

Thanks guys for all your input, all very interesting and thought provoking. I bet you haven’t got the Keil-Kraft IlC though !

 

Again, many thanks

 

Wulfman

[Graham Boak]

Might have a canopy from one in the spares box.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Wulfman said:

I bet you haven’t got the Keil-Kraft IlC though !

I saw one on a sale list,  but some research showed I wasn't desperate to spend £8 and post for a historical kit.

 

One of the very few Hurricane kits i don't have though.  A few I don't specific version/boxings of (eg 72nd Hase Mk.II )  but the base kit are the essentially the same and adequate for research purposes.   I know I should get out more,  but do have a good excuse at the moment!

[Work In Progress]

15 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

    Slightly O/T , but i have always thought about cross kitting a hawker hurricane IIc with a hawker henley 

  Sort of a what if ground attack a/c , with cannon outer wings and merlin XX engine 

      cheers

        jerry 

 

 

You could. If only there was a decent injected Hawker Henley kit, with the 40+ year old Formaplane vac-form being extremely thin on the ground and the Magna resin being somewhat rough-and-ready Magna resin and in any case some years OOP.  I am giving more thought to making my own out of a 1/48 old-tool Airfix Hurricane. (Which is a pretty non-trivial job, every major component needs major modification.)  

 

[RJP]

My major shut-in project is clearing the magazine stash, scanning what I need and discarding the magazines.  Sure enough, last night I came across an article in Airfix Magazine, May 1979 issue, in which Alan Butler made a Henley target tug from an Airfix Hurricane.  And a lot of plastic card and Milliput.  Lots and lots of Milliput.

 

He used the 1957 Mk IV kit as its wings were broader and more accurate than the more recent Mk II.  Significantly, it also was better for having "thick plastic to work on", a refrain sometimes heard from Alan W Hall in his conversion articles.  The Harvard I from the Harvard II piece comes to mind.  I took it at the time to mean some sort of inelegant battlefield surgery was envisaged.

 

I intend no hard research here and will blithely take his word that it can produce a positive result.  But the project looks like fun and will exercise, if not the little grey cells then the long-abandoned teenaged modelling skills.  I think I even have the base kit somewhere.

[Wulfman]

1 hour ago, RJP said:

My major shut-in project is clearing the magazine stash, scanning what I need and discarding the magazines.  Sure enough, last night I came across an article in Airfix Magazine, May 1979 issue, in which Alan Butler made a Henley target tug from an Airfix Hurricane.  And a lot of plastic card and Milliput.  Lots and lots of Milliput.

 

He used the 1957 Mk IV kit as its wings were broader and more accurate than the more recent Mk II.  Significantly, it also was better for having "thick plastic to work on", a refrain sometimes heard from Alan W Hall in his conversion articles.  The Harvard I from the Harvard II piece comes to mind.  I took it at the time to mean some sort of inelegant battlefield surgery was envisaged.

 

I intend no hard research here and will blithely take his word that it can produce a positive result.  But the project looks like fun and will exercise, if not the little grey cells then the long-abandoned teenaged modelling skills.  I think I even have the base kit somewhere.

Hi RJP

I’ve probably got that Airfix Magazine but the mention of plastic card and filler fills me with dread !

I would however, love to see a new kit of the Henley. (Some hope)

 

Regards Wulfman

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, RJP said:

1957 Mk IV kit as its wings were broader and more accurate than the more recent Mk II

This i do not believe.   

I can believe he found plans that showed the 1957 MkIV was more accurate, but the 1972 Mk I/IIb  is basically dimensionally sound. 

 

Note, A.L. Bentley's gold standard Hurricane plans were first published in Aug-Oct 1980 Scale Models....   

Just to clarify what this means, this accompanied the final part of the drawings

 

 

1 hour ago, RJP said:

I intend no hard research here and will blithely take his word that it can produce a positive result.  But the project looks like fun and will exercise, if not the little grey cells then the long-abandoned teenaged modelling skills.  I think I even have the base kit somewhere.

 

indeed!  I have the article, and it's 'proper modelling'   If you do, please post up a WIP.

[RJP]

I am a little fuzzy - though truthfully no fuzzier than usual - on the relationship between the Hurricane and Henley.  It has always been said that Hurricane parts were used - wings and tail, I think - for the Henley but I wondered if that was meant literally or only that they bore a strong family resemblance.  Even the Butler article used scratch built tail parts instead of just transferring the Hurricane bits.  Somehow, I have harboured doubts.

 

But, as I said, I shall blithely accept whatever I am told on this and have some fun.  Modelling for Mere Mortals.

[Troy Smith]

17 hours ago, RJP said:

It has always been said that Hurricane parts were used - wings and tail, I think - for the Henley but I wondered if that was meant literally

the outer wings panels  are built on the same jigs, minus the weapons bays, so for modelling purposes, the same. 

compare

 

 

The tail looks the same outline, but is wider.

 

Given Hawkers tradition of using what worked, many small components will be the same, as would be the construction method with the tubular framework,   but not many of the big bits.

The wheels, for example look like the ones the Typhoon, certainly bigger than Hurricane ones

 

There are a fair few Henley pics on the net,  and there have been threads on this before, 

this, and the ones I link in this post

 

HTH