Wingnut Wings closing down

[Tbolt]

12 hours ago, CharlieNZ said:

Not in NZ unfortunately, no one is allowed to go to work unless they are an essential worker, so the staff who would normally process orders are at home.

Interesting, here in the UK they have encouraged online shop to keep trading if they can. I know it's a difficult call between minimizing the spread of the virus and keeping some things running.

[CharlieNZ]

The only businesses that are allowed to keep trading in NZ are supermarkets, pharmacies, and online retailers selling 'essential' items, such as food, clothing, heating appliances and communications equipment. Even online retailers selling essential goods that also sell hobby supplies can't sell their hobby supplies. Postal service is restricted to essential goods only, meaning not only are almost all retailers closed, there's no means by which to ship anything non essential anyway.

[Thomas V.]

36 minutes ago, mattcour said:

Modern tooling sets for a detailed large scale model kit costs over about 200k USD, at least. I'm pretty sure it is even double for a project like the Lancaster. A manufacturer will have to sell about 25-30k copies just to have such an investment return. I doubt Wingnut product line would ever achieve these numbers in a short time so the business might be already bleeding out and given the public reaction against the group they are a part of, maybe someone has considered it a best time for a stop-loss.

Thankfully you are very,very wrong, modern toolings cost way less than you think😉, for instance tooling costs associated with Airfix Typhoon were 30+thousand pounds, most 32nd scale toolings 10-15 thousand, and today first runs rarely exceed 5-6 thousand kits, followed by smaller numbers in the long run.

Tooling costs plummeted in the last 20 years, more so if you have in house tooling production ( Tamiya,Eduard,Zvezda,ICM etc...), that is why today we have proliferation of new kits and

companies, because its cheaper than ever before.

Regarding WNW, want to emphasize that due to its direct sale model, and relative late decision to use distributors they are probably sole model kit manufacturer that achieved

extra profits on their products.

 

[Torbjorn]

51 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Dang it... Looks like I’ll need to grab an Albatross or Fokker before they get to expensive. 

I will certainly be following this closely. There’s a few kits I’d like, and who knows when an equivalent company can pop up? 

 

 

(I’ll come back in ten or so years and hit myself, after 3D printing has advanced beyond injection moulding and everyone is creating the same in his basement)

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Torbjorn

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

My daughters thinking about buying me one of the Albatros D.V kits. Hopefully the “Black Beauties” or “Jasta 18” boxings. 

[mattcour]

39 minutes ago, Thomas V. said:

Thankfully you are very,very wrong, modern toolings cost way less than you think😉, for instance tooling costs associated with Airfix Typhoon were 30+thousand pounds, most 32nd scale toolings 10-15 thousand, and today first runs rarely exceed 5-6 thousand kits, followed by smaller numbers in the long run.

Tooling costs plummeted in the last 20 years, more so if you have in house tooling production ( Tamiya,Eduard,Zvezda,ICM etc...), that is why today we have proliferation of new kits and

companies, because its cheaper than ever before.

Regarding WNW, want to emphasize that due to its direct sale model, and relative late decision to use distributors they are probably sole model kit manufacturer that achieved

extra profits on their products.

 

Unfortunately you are more than very very wrong but I sincerely wish you were right and I was wrong. It is true tooling costs are remarkably down thanks to 5 axis CAMs and tools mostly being produced in China. It is also true we -happily- have a proliferation of new kits and brands, but not only because moulds are cheaper than before but also the market is quite high and modeling is popular as never before, with small companies having the ability to produce short run kits. If your figure regarding the 32nd scale to be 10-15 thousand relates to short run moulds, that is ok or about ok, but if we are talking about Tamiya level P20 steel moulds polished to highest grade that are designed to produce hundreds of thousands of copies, well, the costs are just like I said and not a penny less. Sorry to let you down, but for 10-15k you would not even afford outer shells of a new 32nd scale Tamiya tool and let me tell you this is not a guess but information based on some industrial experience.

[Thomas V.]

Fair enough, just imagine how many kits one company would need to produce just to recoup tooling investment-not to mention make money using your numbers, I don't know about WNW, that is why I said think, but numbers related to costs that I wrote I stand by as someone selling and co-producing ( two kits) for/in the last 30 years..  

For instance how many of the new Gloster Gladiators ICM would need to sell if lets say they cost app.20 euros wholesale, same goes for new Eduard Typhoon as both are made from highest quality steel moulds-not short run...

Regarding market numbers, that is where you are again very very wrong, number of kits produced are lower than ever, rarely do large scale kits cross 10000 mark, usually far lower, 48th scale ones maybe up to 60000-70000, 72nd less than that, all mentioned through all of the tooling's life.

Its shadow of former numbers when 32nd scale kits were selling between 50-70000 ( Revell, Hasegawa )

 

Please take everything I wrote as a sign of constructive debate, most important is the state of the hobby, which has never been better.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Thomas V.

[mattcour]

Let me ask the other way: If your figures are correct (that is 10-15k for a 32nd scale) and no company as far as I know would bother less than a 100% profit margin, that means ICM would recoup the tooling investment just with a thousand kits? I don't think so. If you would have the investment return that quick, nobody would bother short-run moulds for 2-3k copies. 

And on the other hand nobody would undergo investment costs of a steel mould for just 5k copies. In general, I can say that for any plastic injection product to be viable and profitable, you would wish to produce at least a few ten thousands, which is what I think ICM must be doing as well. Wingnuts would not be closing down if you would get your tooling money back with just a few thousand kits.  

[Adam Poultney]

If they have to close down it would be nice to see the moulds being sold to another manufacturer (such as perhaps Eduard) to carry on producing the kits rather than scrapping them and letting the kits become extremely rare lost gems like the amazing for its day Frog Vulcan B1 which I really really want... from what I've seen they're certainly good quality, and something another manufacturer could make good use of.

[ColFord]

See the announcement on the WNW website regarding the TEMPORARY closure due to Covid-19 control measures.

 

Impact of Covid-19 control measures internationally has been at multiple layers, production in China, global shipping delays and shut down of NZ end of the business as part of NZ Government quarantine and social distancing measures.  Only so much you can do online when it is largely a hands-on business dependent on international supply lines.

 

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/news

 

 

 

 

[Hobo]

This is all very strange. If the Richard Alexander comments are legitimate, then it looks grim. But if your company has been on the rocks, why would you invest so much money in the Lancaster project which has gone on for several years? And why would you release a Gotha G.1 when there are so many other popular subjects that have yet to be done in 1/32 that would have sold far better? My only guess is that Peter Jackson's investments and cash flow have completely collapsed due to the Coronavirus situation and it was these investments that kept his hobbies - such as Wingnut Wings among others - going. I really hope not, so lets hope the announcement on the Wingnut Wings website is accurate and that this is all only temporary. It would be a tragic loss for modelers if they went out of business. I really hope Eduard, which is my favorite company, gets through this ok.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Hobo

[Hobo]

As mentioned earlier, these are both not good developments::

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12306788

and go here and scroll down to the post made by Dekenba1:

https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=10978.msg202360%3Bboardseen&fbclid=IwAR24Ux_vHnvcOBkqoiq4-Mt1WaJ-o_DSwPXBxjl2YbtYgf3Vz7X4QkE193U#new

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Hobo

[hairystick]

That would be very bad news for WNW if it is true. Hopefully it is not, and just a reflection of the manufacturing base in china being affected, and distribution hassles.

There are a LOT of companies who will struggle to survive in the coming months ahead, but with careful management they can survive - but some may not be in the same state as we knew them.

11 hours ago, John Thompson said:

(... Apparently the PM, Jacinda Ardern, was majorly aggressive in putting protective measures in place, to good effect, not just "flattening the curve", but crushing it.)

Sadly not true, but the PR machine makes it out that way. Acting too slowly, inexperienced* and also just being nothing more than a smiling front-person who goes around hugging people. Luckliy there are some professionals who have provided experience and guidance to those in charge.

* Was an office lackey for Tony Blair.

4 hours ago, Asmodai said:

There is currently a good deal of controversy in New Zealand over a substantial amount of public money that has been given over to promoting film production and companies in NZ. Peter Jackson’s WETA Group, of which Wingnut  is a tiny part, has received a lot of that, including a substantial annual subsidy from taxpayers. There has been a lot of questions recently about how this public money has been spent, as it seems to have generated very little positive benefit to the public at large. Shocking, I know 🙄. 

Not entirely so. An amount was paid to encourage film businesses to set up here, but the overall returns on that investment to the country are far bigger. Don't be fooled by the typical media headlines...

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/assets/1dbbe5482a/economic-study-of-the-new-zealand-film-industry.pdf 

Yet the current lot want to damage an income stream to NZ... https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2002/S00130/thousands-of-jobs-at-risk-as-government-takes-aim-at-film-industry.htm 

4 hours ago, Tbolt said:

Interesting, here in the UK they have encouraged online shop to keep trading if they can. I know it's a difficult call being minimum the spread of the virus and keeping some things running.

A very wise decision!

The economy is vital to keep going as much as it can & online sales are a part which can still perform, even if it has to be "order now & we'll deliver it when we possibly can" approach.

Sadly the NZ government has killed off that approach, where people stuck at home could be trying to keep part of the economy going, by purchasing items online (& delivered when possible).

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

My Daughter did buy me the Albatros D.V/D.Va “Black Beauties” kit. It has Ernst Udet’s D.Va and he is one of my favorite pilots of the great war. More for his colorful planes but his skills as well. Im very sad to hear about WNW. and hope they can eventually restart or someone picks up the molds. I was never able to afford these kits but I'm very happy to get one of them at least before the uncertain future. 
 

Dennis

Edited April 11, 2020 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[azzaob]

I really hope it is just a temporary halt to production, however long that may be, but suspect it may be a while. The temporary halt to trading is hurting many companies across the country, and I imagine the demand to get the economy going again will become an even more pressing [political] factor for our government to reopen 'non-essential' services as will happen when we move back to Level 3 alert.. Hopefully WNW is one of those companies....

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by azzaob

[dekenba]

11 hours ago, Asmodai said:

I probably should have summed up a bit more clearly. There is currently a good deal of controversy in New Zealand over a substantial amount of public money that has been given over to promoting film production and companies in NZ. Peter Jackson’s WETA Group, of which Wingnut  is a tiny part, has received a lot of that, including a substantial annual subsidy from taxpayers. There has been a lot of questions recently about how this public money has been spent, as it seems to have generated very little positive benefit to the public at large. Shocking, I know 🙄. 
 

Among other things, it is insinuated that some of the money was used on other ventures, which could have included Wingnut. We’ll avoid the over arching discussion, but I think even most modelers would agree that taxpayers supporting a private plastic model company is probably not the best use of public funds. This is how WETA has come to be under a lot of fire 🔥 recently, and if it was only by public funds, their cutting off could be the demise of things like Wingnut, as perhaps it never was financially viable, or could even have existed without someone else’s money. 
 

It doesn’t appear that the coronavirus has anything to do with Wingnut’s possible demise, or is only a very minor factor. The main thing is there are serious questions about how WETA has spent the money it got. 
 

 

The money WETA got was legal, there is nothing dodgy about it. The government has a film development fund and, of the fund, $41m finds its way to WETA via 3rd parties who contract WETA to undertake work for them.

 

I don't think PJ has done anything wrong, but it seems to me he is pretty wee weed off. He lost $3m in the TVAL con, people are trying to insinuate something dodgy about a government fund that is just plain wrong.

 

He's kicking up a stink in Wellington over planning permission granted next door to one of his homes.

 

He's unpopular with Unions, as he worked with the US film industry to keep the workers rights low.

 

He set up his WWI museum last year, lending it a lot of his military paraphernalia. It was supposed to stay open 4 years but the government closed it after 7-8 months.

 

And he's taking fire in some media for pushing his weight around - he's considered to be too influential in NZ

 

I fear he's just had enough of all this crap, so he's closing up & moving on.

[CharlieNZ]

The WW1 exhibition at the old Dominion Museum ran for four years. It closed at the end of 2018 because the building owner, Massey university, wanted their space back.

[Tbolt]

12 hours ago, CharlieNZ said:

The only businesses that are allowed to keep trading in NZ are supermarkets, pharmacies, and online retailers selling 'essential' items, such as food, clothing, heating appliances and communications equipment. Even online retailers selling essential goods that also sell hobby supplies can't sell their hobby supplies. Postal service is restricted to essential goods only, meaning not only are almost all retailers closed, there's no means by which to ship anything non essential anyway.

Yes I see Hannants have be told not to send any orders to New Zealand.

[Rabbit Leader]

This is sad news indeed, although with global unemployment on the rise I’m not surprised to see high end niche products like WNW’s being one of the first modelling manufacturers affected. Throw in New Zealand’s industry killing approach to controlling this virus and this is unfortunately one of the inevitable but tragic outcomes for our beloved hobby. 
 

... Honestly, why can’t a business still trade in mail order, that’s just absurd!! 
 

Cheers Dave (who was quite keen on a WNW Lanc nose kit)

[KITCAT]

8 hours ago, Hobo said:

This is all very strange. If the Richard Alexander comments are legitimate, then it looks grim. But if your company has been on the rocks, why would you invest so much money in the Lancaster project which has gone on for several years? And why would you release a Gotha G.1 when there are so many other popular subjects that have yet to be done in 1/32 that would have sold far better? My only guess is that Peter Jackson's investments and cash flow have completely collapsed due to the Coronavirus situation and it was these investments that kept his hobbies - such as Wingnut Wings among others - going. I really hope not, so lets hope the announcement on the Wingnut Wings website is accurate and that this is all only temporary. It would be a tragic loss for modelers if they went out of business. I really hope Eduard, which is my favorite company, gets through this ok.

Hobo you have been reading my thoughts as I have been saying this for months Wnw' s biggies looked over indulgent and when the releases of Albatros and pfalz came along I suspected cash flow issues. Very sad and I MUST BUY MORE!

[JohnT]

Well I have weakened and bought a Fokker DVII I have been vacillating over for several months. It was on my to get one day list and I decided to bring the day forward “just in case”. 
 

Wonder if this pushes HK Models Lancaster back into the limelight? 

[t15dja]

OH NO!

.....And I was saving up for the Lancaster, having seen the stunning prototypes at  Telford Scale Model World!

I do hope they can be saved. 

[Hobo]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

This is sad news indeed, although with global unemployment on the rise I’m not surprised to see high end niche products like WNW’s being one of the first modelling manufacturers affected. Throw in New Zealand’s industry killing approach to controlling this virus and this is unfortunately one of the inevitable but tragic outcomes for our beloved hobby. 
 

... Honestly, why can’t a business still trade in mail order, that’s just absurd!! 
 

Cheers Dave (who was quite keen on a WNW Lanc nose kit)

Couldn't agree with you more Rabbit Leader. Let the mail order businesses continue on - there is no reason to shut them down. We're having the same situation starting to develop here in California. A lot of these government "leaders" have been in academia and government for most of their lives and have no clue how tough it is to run a business. Sweden has taken the complete opposite approach, so it will be interesting to see how their model ends up working.

[John Thompson]

9 hours ago, hairystick said:

 

Sadly not true, but the PR machine makes it out that way. Acting too slowly, inexperienced* and also just being nothing more than a smiling front-person who goes around hugging people. Luckliy there are some professionals who have provided experience and guidance to those in charge.

* Was an office lackey for Tony Blair.

 

Seriously? Regardless of how she did it, she had the courage to take the advice she was given, and the result so far has been substantially better than those of most of her counterparts in much larger countries, hasn't it!

 

John

[Harold55]

This is sad news.  I am sure the molds will live on as they are valuable but WNW is a very influential modeling company that set a high standard.  They were a leader in so many ways and that will be missed.  Hopefully they own and have control over their molds.