Scott Hemsley Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) I'm currently getting ready to put some colour onto a Kittyhawk Mk.I of 111 Sqn. (RCAF), as it served while in Alaska . 1942. The overall scheme is DE/DG over a pale blue (Duck Egg Blue according to an article by Carl Vincent, in an old IPMS/Canada Random Thoughts) with Sky spinner and fuselage band. What I'm looking for, is suggestions as to the possible colour(s) of the wheel wells, both the exposed wells where the tires rest when retracted and the portion of the well that's covered when the l/g doors are closed. All the article says on that matter is that the undercarriage was natural metal. Any help would be appreciated. Scott Edited April 10, 2020 by Scott Hemsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Scott Hemsley said: What I'm looking for, is suggestions as to the possible colour(s) of the wheel wells, both the exposed wells where the tires rest when retracted and the portion of the well that's covered when the l/g doors are closed. All the article says on that matter is that the undercarriage was natural metal. Hi Scott, I have had the chance to look at the colours of a P40E-1 (Mk Ia) wheel well The actual wheel colour, is the interior (Curtiss Colour) of the wing, very much the same as in this life Magazine Photo. The actual wheel well opening has a liner that covers the opening, and sits tacked to the wing ribs of the wing, as in this photo Note I have seen this on a an Original P40 Wheel well too, that had been in storage I couldn't find a an off shelf colour that suited, so I mixed my own in my P40E-1 build, before adding the liners Hope that helps you? Regards Alan Edited April 10, 2020 by LDSModeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 That it does, Allen. Many thanks! It raises another question, though. Was the well liner always fitted or was it sometimes discarded 'in the field' by ground crews? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Sometimes discarded, but I would venture a guess not often to prevent sand/grit from being blown into the wheel bays. I seem to recall that the canvas liners were also frequently painted with the surrounding undersurface color, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott Hemsley said: It raises another question, though. Was the well liner always fitted or was it sometimes discarded 'in the field' by ground crews? Hi Scott, The liner I saw was from WWII. The aircraft had served on Coral air strips, whether the liner had been replaced during service, very possible? Given that the wheel well boxing's have openings in them, one would have to make the assumption that once it became tatty from use, they would be replaced, other wise dust/debris kicked up by take of/landings would make its way into the wing innards - which could cause all manner of problems. I have read (IMHO, ill informed) modellers make the comment that they were left off. Where they got that information from they never say. An RNZAF P40 Pilot in his book "Too Young To Die" (Bryan Cox), stated that on take off he would tap the toe brake as the main gear retracted to stop the spinning wheels/tires shredding the liner. If such training were given to pilots, the liner was obviously considered an important part of the aircraft's equipment. Regards Alan 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Thanks gentlemen. I guess I'll be fabricating 1 set of 72nd wheel well liners, then. Needless to say, Alan … those photos you posted earlier, will be my primary reference, but it's those two photos of your P-40E build, that really shows the finished liner to good advantage. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Scott Hemsley said: I guess I'll be fabricating 1 set of 72nd wheel well liners, then. Hi Scott, Happy to help. If it's any help these two photos hopefully will help further? I measured the edges N/S/E/W, to the roof of well, and then cut a slightly longer skirt from pre-painted Serviette/Paper napkin, which I cut tabs onto to fold under when the wing top was finally glued on. When dry cut out a circular section to sit on top and glued the whole thing together and there you have a wheel well liner Hope that helps? Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Thanks for the additional photos & explanation of your method., Alan Gives me a starting point next time I find a few minutes at the table and considering the current global situation … that's not hard. :-) Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said: That it does, Allen. Many thanks! It raises another question, though. Was the well liner always fitted or was it sometimes discarded 'in the field' by ground crews? Scott the "wheel pocket" protects the roller aileron and flap controls bearings and the pulleys from mud and dust thrown by the wheels. Can you imagine if a aileron could be wedged in flight? The pilot will not be very happy. that's why these pockets were essential, so I think that was never removed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 19 hours ago, LDSModeller said: An RNZAF P40 Pilot in his book "Too Young To Die" (Bryan Cox), stated that on take off he would tap the toe brake as the main gear retracted to stop the spinning wheels/tires shredding the liner. If such training were given to pilots, the liner was obviously considered an important part of the aircraft's equipment. To be honest that is standard training on EVERY aircraft with a retractable undercarriage, except for the very few which automatically brake the wheels for you as part of the retraction sequence 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 18 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said: Thanks for the additional photos & explanation of your method., Alan Gives me a starting point next time I find a few minutes at the table and considering the current global situation … that's not hard. 🙂 Scott Scott, You can also use aluminum foil, and if you wrinkle it up slightly and then flatten it back out, it makes a very realistic liner, but the tissue is also an excellent substitute. Both materials also make very good control column boots and expended shell casing bags, BTW! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Work In Progress said: To be honest that is standard training on EVERY aircraft with a retractable undercarriage, except for the very few which automatically brake the wheels for you as part of the retraction sequence Yes, but the fact that he mentions it specifically for the wheel liners is the point. BTW as a young cadet on a familiarization flight in a Fokker Friendship, I personally watched the main gear, wheels still spinning go, up into the wheel wells and main doors close. (pilot may have/probably braked them after the main door closed admittedly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blimpyboy Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 53 minutes ago, LDSModeller said: Yes, but the fact that he mentions it specifically for the wheel liners is the point. BTW as a young cadet on a familiarization flight in a Fokker Friendship, I personally watched the main gear, wheels still spinning go, up into the wheel wells and main doors close. (pilot may have/probably braked them after the main door closed admittedly) I recall watching the undercarriage of DHC-4 Caribous go into their wells with the wheels still spinning furiously! DHC-6s do it too. One thing I’ve always wondered: why did the original P-40s have a canvas pocket in the wheel well instead of having a sealed metal box? The vast majority of the airframe was already metal - was it a specific structural, weight/balance or economic issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Blimpyboy said: One thing I’ve always wondered: why did the original P-40s have a canvas pocket in the wheel well instead of having a sealed metal box? The vast majority of the airframe was already metal - was it a specific structural, weight/balance or economic issue? I think that the wheel pocket was made of waterproof cotton duck because it was not a structural part and the canvas was not expensive like strategic materials (metal) and skilled worker time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Cheaper and easier to replace. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hemsley Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 Thanks for the tissue suggestion, 72modeler. Since the Kittyhawk's close to the final priming prior to getting some colour on it, I've had to modify Alan's method somewhat. Using some very thin sheet (.040 thou?) I created a collar for the wheel well then laid down a 'floor' with the same sheet. Essentially, the end result was something that looked like it was molded that way - all smooth. Using your suggestion of overlaying that with tissue made a world of difference in appearance. Thanks … and thanks to all who've replied. I learned a few things about the Kittyhawk landing gear, with this build. Just think … I've got 3 more (Kittyhawk III/IV and a P-40K) where I can eventually apply all this new-found knowledge. 🙂 Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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