Suggestions re Kittyhawk Mk.I wheel well colour(s)

[Scott Hemsley]

I'm currently getting ready to put some colour onto a Kittyhawk Mk.I of 111 Sqn. (RCAF), as it served while in Alaska . 1942. 

 

The overall scheme is DE/DG over a pale blue (Duck Egg Blue according to an article by Carl Vincent, in an old IPMS/Canada Random Thoughts) with Sky spinner and fuselage band. What I'm looking for, is suggestions as to the possible colour(s) of the wheel wells, both the exposed wells where the tires rest when retracted and the portion of the well that's covered when the l/g doors are closed.  All the article says on that matter is that the undercarriage was natural metal. 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Scott

Edited April 10, 2020 by Scott Hemsley

[LDSModeller]

55 minutes ago, Scott Hemsley said:

What I'm looking for, is suggestions as to the possible colour(s) of the wheel wells, both the exposed wells where the tires rest when retracted and the portion of the well that's covered when the l/g doors are closed.  All the article says on that matter is that the undercarriage was natural metal. 

Hi Scott,

 

I have had the chance to look at the colours of a P40E-1 (Mk Ia) wheel well

The actual wheel colour, is the interior (Curtiss Colour) of the wing, very

much the same as in this life Magazine Photo.

The actual wheel well opening has a liner that covers the opening, and sits tacked to the wing ribs of the 

wing, as in this photo  Note I have seen this on a an Original P40 Wheel well too, that had been in storage

 

I couldn't find a an off shelf colour that suited, so I mixed my own in my P40E-1 build,

before adding the liners

 

Hope that helps you?

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by LDSModeller

[Scott Hemsley]

That it does, Allen.  Many thanks!

It raises another question, though.  Was the well liner always fitted or was it sometimes discarded 'in the field' by ground crews?

 

 

Scott

[72modeler]

Sometimes discarded, but I would venture a guess not often to prevent sand/grit from being blown into the wheel bays. I seem to recall that the canvas liners were also frequently painted with the surrounding undersurface color, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

Mike

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, Scott Hemsley said:

It raises another question, though.  Was the well liner always fitted or was it sometimes discarded 'in the field' by ground crews?

Hi Scott,

 

The liner I saw was from WWII.

The aircraft had served on Coral air strips, whether the liner had been replaced

during service, very possible?

Given that the wheel well boxing's have openings in them, one would have to make the

assumption that once it became tatty from use, they would be replaced, other wise dust/debris kicked up

by take of/landings would make its way into the wing innards - which could cause all manner of problems.

I have read  (IMHO, ill informed) modellers make the comment that they were

left off. Where they got that information from they never say.

An RNZAF P40 Pilot in his book "Too Young To Die" (Bryan Cox), stated that on take off

he would tap the toe brake as the main gear retracted to stop the spinning wheels/tires

shredding the liner. If such training were given to pilots, the liner was obviously considered

an important part of the aircraft's equipment.

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Scott Hemsley]

Thanks gentlemen. I guess I'll be fabricating 1 set of 72nd wheel well liners, then.  Needless to say, Alan … those photos you posted earlier, will be my primary reference, but it's those two photos of your P-40E build, that really shows the finished liner to good advantage.

 

Scott

[LDSModeller]

4 minutes ago, Scott Hemsley said:

I guess I'll be fabricating 1 set of 72nd wheel well liners, then.

Hi Scott,

 

Happy to help.

 

If it's any help these two photos hopefully will help further?

 

I measured the edges N/S/E/W, to the roof of well, and then cut a slightly longer skirt

from pre-painted Serviette/Paper napkin, which I cut tabs onto to fold under when the wing top was

finally glued on.

 

When dry cut out a circular section to sit on top and glued the whole thing together

and there you have a wheel well liner

 

Hope that helps?

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Scott Hemsley]

Thanks for the additional photos & explanation of your method., Alan   Gives me a starting point next time I find a few minutes at the table and considering the current global situation … that's not hard.  :-)

 

Scott 

[BS_w]

16 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said:

That it does, Allen.  Many thanks!

It raises another question, though.  Was the well liner always fitted or was it sometimes discarded 'in the field' by ground crews?

 

 

Scott

the "wheel pocket" protects the roller aileron and flap controls bearings and the pulleys from mud and dust thrown by the wheels. Can you imagine if a aileron could be wedged in flight? The pilot will not be very happy.
that's why these pockets were essential, so I think that was never removed.

[Work In Progress]

19 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

An RNZAF P40 Pilot in his book "Too Young To Die" (Bryan Cox), stated that on take off

he would tap the toe brake as the main gear retracted to stop the spinning wheels/tires

shredding the liner. If such training were given to pilots, the liner was obviously considered

an important part of the aircraft's equipment.

To be honest that is standard training on EVERY aircraft with a retractable undercarriage, except for the very few which automatically brake the wheels for you as part of the retraction sequence

[72modeler]

18 hours ago, Scott Hemsley said:

Thanks for the additional photos & explanation of your method., Alan   Gives me a starting point next time I find a few minutes at the table and considering the current global situation … that's not hard.  🙂

 

Scott 

Scott,

You can also use aluminum foil, and if you wrinkle it up slightly and then flatten it back out, it makes a very realistic liner, but the tissue is also an excellent substitute. Both materials also make very good control column boots and expended shell casing bags, BTW!

Mike

[LDSModeller]

6 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

To be honest that is standard training on EVERY aircraft with a retractable undercarriage, except for the very few which automatically brake the wheels for you as part of the retraction sequence

Yes, but the fact that he mentions it specifically for the wheel liners is

the point.

BTW as a young cadet on a familiarization flight in a Fokker Friendship,

I personally watched  the main gear, wheels still spinning go, up into the wheel wells

and main doors close.

(pilot may have/probably braked them after the main door closed admittedly)

[Blimpyboy]

53 minutes ago, LDSModeller said:

Yes, but the fact that he mentions it specifically for the wheel liners is

the point.

BTW as a young cadet on a familiarization flight in a Fokker Friendship,

I personally watched  the main gear, wheels still spinning go, up into the wheel wells

and main doors close.

(pilot may have/probably braked them after the main door closed admittedly)

 

I recall watching the undercarriage of DHC-4 Caribous go into their wells with the wheels still spinning furiously!

 

DHC-6s do it too.

 

One thing I’ve always wondered: why did the original P-40s have a canvas pocket in the wheel well instead of having a sealed metal box?

The vast majority of the airframe was already metal - was it a specific structural, weight/balance or economic issue?

[BS_w]

1 hour ago, Blimpyboy said:

 

One thing I’ve always wondered: why did the original P-40s have a canvas pocket in the wheel well instead of having a sealed metal box?

The vast majority of the airframe was already metal - was it a specific structural, weight/balance or economic issue?

I think that the wheel pocket was made of waterproof cotton duck because it was not a structural part and the canvas was not expensive like strategic materials (metal) and skilled worker time

[dogsbody]

Cheaper and easier to replace.

 

 

 

Chris

[Scott Hemsley]

Thanks for the tissue suggestion, 72modeler.

 

Since the Kittyhawk's close to the final priming prior to getting some colour on it, I've had to modify Alan's method somewhat.  Using some very thin sheet (.040 thou?) I created a collar for the wheel well then laid down a 'floor' with the same sheet.  Essentially, the end result was something that looked like it was molded that way - all smooth.  Using your suggestion of overlaying that with tissue made a world of difference in appearance. 

 

Thanks …  and thanks to all who've replied.  I learned a few things about the Kittyhawk landing gear, with this build.  Just think … I've got 3 more (Kittyhawk III/IV and a P-40K) where I can eventually apply all this new-found knowledge.  🙂

 

Scott