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Spitfire PR XI - options for building one in 1/48?


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Hey all

 

For a while I've had an urge to build a Spitfire PR XI.  I'm sure I've seen a thread on here about building one from currently available kits in 1/48 scale, and I'm sure there was/is a thread with tons of PR Spit photos, but I cannot find the thread via the search function (probably because I'm useless).

 

I'd like to build one that looks like PL965, as I like the look of that variant.  I'm not too keen on the later Griffon powered variant that Airfix did a kit of.

 

So, as summer is approaching (and hoping some kind of, even just a little, normality will return), and it's the 80th anniversary of the Battle of Britain (not that PR XI's flew during the BoB) I thought I'd start on trying to move this idea forwards...

 

Anyone here know what kit I could start with (I think Eduard's Mk VIII has been mentioned in the thread I saw?), and what to buy or what to do to the base kit to turn it into a PR XI?

 

I think I read somewhere, besides cameras (which I think there's a resin kit for) the wings are the biggest issue, with filling of panel lines and scribing of new panel lines and some lumps/bumps adding/removing?

 

Could I, to make life really simple, cross-kit an Airfix PR XIX with an Eduard Mk VIII?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by RobL
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various ways to skin this cat, depending on budget, methods, skills etc.

 

Since I am actually getting something useful done,  if you google

 

"britmodeller spitfire pr xi 1/48"   I get a load of hits,  which will give you various recipes. 

 

25 minutes ago, RobL said:

the wings are the biggest issue, with filling of panel lines and scribing of new panel lines and some lumps/bumps adding/removing?

 

Starting from nothing,  I'd suggest using a Airfix PR XIX,  as that has all the right PR bits  as in the wings and fuselage cameras OOB, and adding a new nose Merlin nose and radiators,  cut back the tail fin, add standard rudder  add standard canopy and door, eliminate pressurisation bulkhead inside and deeper chin on nose ( for bigger oil tank)

That's about it.  

 

If you are frugal, you could cross kit with an Eduard VIII and use the leftovers to make a high back XIV c....

 

But, have a read of the various threads.    I have spare PR XIX kits if you can't find one ;) 

 

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I am thinking about doing a 1/48 scale PR Mk.XI myself before too long. Possibly for the forthcoming Spitfire STGB.

 

My initial plan was to convert the Airfix XIX, replacing the Griffon engine with a Merlin. However, I have since acquired an Eduard Mk.VIII for use as base kit. In addition I have various conversion kits and upgrade kits for both the XI and XIX.

 

You are right that there was a build thread not long ago, possibly last year. I also had it bookmarked. But now I cannot find it.

 

Nils

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3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Since I am actually getting something useful done,  if you google "britmodeller spitfire pr xi 1/48"   I get a load of hits,  which will give you various recipes. 
 

It gave me this:

 

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Thanks guys.

 

Looking at Jim Kiker's thread I could probably use the Airfix XIX, just chop off the nose section and replace that with the Eduard VIII nose section, and (not knowing what parts come with the Airfix kit) use the Eduard VIII rudder, clear parts for the canopy, and prop also?  Or even easier, just put the Airfix wings on the Eduard VIII and add in any missing holes/panels for cameras?  Seems very easy to do, surely it can't be that easy (would just have to source an aftermarket deeper chin part)?

 

And...

 

...I found the thread with all the photos and details that I had read previously, should have used Google first instead of the search function on here -

 

Edited by RobL
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Perhaps you could fix the typo in the topic title? It says PR.IX now... 

 

Interestingly enough, when you check Scalemates there is an orphan reference to an AZmodels PR.XI 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/az-model-az4847-supermarine-spitfire-pr-mkxi--100554

 

Edited by alt-92
handled
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23 minutes ago, RobL said:

Or even easier, just put the Airfix wings on the Eduard VIII and add in any missing holes/panels for cameras?  Seems very easy to do, surely it can't be that easy (would just have to source an aftermarket deeper chin part)?

it's  getting the bits to fit,  and the Eduard kit is riveted, the Airifx is not.   But, yes, that could work as well.     Again, the leftover will give a highback XIVc

 

11 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Interestingly enough, when you check Scalemates there is an orphan reference to an AZmodels PR.XI 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/az-model-az4847-supermarine-spitfire-pr-mkxi--100554

 

 IIRC this is a boxing of the Occidental Mk.IX,  with some conversion bit's.

the Occidental IX,  also reboxed by Italeri,  has some faults, so along with unavailability,  better off starting with the above in IMO.

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Ah, yes.  I'd have to either fill the rivets on the Eduard parts or rivet the Airfix parts, the former being an easy job with perfect plastic putty.  If I am just using the Airfix wings I might be inclined to not rivet them at all and leave it all as is.

 

Panel line quality I guess would also be a factor, especially if I grafted on the Eduard VIII nose.

 

Guess I'll have to see when/if I actually get around to buying both kits, at the worst I'll have a XIX and VIII...

 

At least I now know, again, where to start.

Edited by RobL
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Crosskitting the Eduard Mk.VIII with the Airfix Mk.XIX in some way would be the way to go. Exactly which parts to take from which kit would be the individual modeller's choice. There are various options. As well as aftermarket conversion and upgrade sets.

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Lucky are we 1/72 modelers who have the Paragon PRXI conversion set to graft on a  Mk VIII kit- the panel lines are pretty easy to fill and what bumps there are present are easy to remove. Personally, if I were contemplating a 1/48 PR XI, I would look to see if there is a conversion set for the deeper cowling, canopy/windscreen, and fuel pump blister fairings; if you wanted to do one with the underwing camera blisters, you would have to make them if the conversion set doesn't have them. I would rather do that then remove and replace the nose, radiators, and fin/rudder on the Airfix PRXIX and crosskitting with a suitable Mk VIII kit. You pays your money and you takes your choice, as they say!

 

Guess Eduard didn't feel it was worth the expense of tooling the necessary PRXI parts to add to their basic Mk VIII kits in either 1/72 or 1/48 scales, as they would have had to make new upper and  lower wings; IIRC the way they engineered the lower cowling, all they needed there was to put a deeper one and the fuel pump fairing blisters on a sprue, along with the underwing camera blisters for the low tactical recon sorties. Good luck on your project, in any case!

Mike

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2 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Guess Eduard didn't feel it was worth the expense of tooling the necessary PRXI parts to add to their basic Mk VIII kits in either 1/72 or 1/48 scales, as they would have had to make new upper and  lower wings;

they would have needed new fuselage halves as well, the PR windscreen, and camera port.   And PR XI are nearly all PRU blue,  and  your options are...RAF,  though there is the SEAC option, USAAF (with a few in NMF) and post war, Denmark and Norway...  from memory.

5 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Personally, if I were contemplating a 1/48 PR XI, I would look to see if there is a conversion set for the deeper cowling, canopy/windscreen, and fuel pump blister fairings; if you wanted to do one with the underwing camera blisters, you would have to make them if the conversion set doesn't have them. I would rather do that then remove and replace the nose, radiators, and fin/rudder on the Airfix PRXIX and crosskitting with a suitable Mk VIII kit. You pays your money and you takes your choice, as they say!

There is. Quickboost. 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/QB48192

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/QB48146

for the Hasegawa kit, but from what there is they should fit others.  And they cost £10

but does not provide a canopy.

 

BUT the PR wing is quite different,  and unless you start with a wing with separate cannon hatches, and really like filling panel lines.... In this I'm thinking of an Eduard wing with fine detail and rivets galore and fixed cannon blisters...   1/48th being 50% bigger than 1/72 these things start to matter..

 

The hardest bit is the nose swap,  the rest is easy.  For the nose,  I'd consider cutting in the fuel tank,  as that would make for an easier filling job and avoid losing engine fastener detail.

 

If you had a suitable 4 blade prop, it might be possible to use the spare side engine panels from the ICM Spitfire (they are a spare) and the spare upper cowling and lower cowling parts duplicated in every  Eduard kit to make a Merlin nose, and cut back the fin.

Note.  And I found this surprising, the rear rudder part of the XIV/XIX is THE SAME as the broad point rudder of the VIII/IX/XVI.... but as both the ICM and Eduard kit come with both there are spare of those easily available.

You could probably cut down the radiators as well.   

 

 

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Good points, all Troy-  I was thinking, but didn't express my thoughts clearly enough, that if Eduard had wanted to do a PR XI in either scale, they could have done so with some engineering forethought on their Mk VIII kits. The radio hatch could have been done as a separate part- one with a  camera port, and one without, or with a flashed-over camera port in the fuselage halves. The belly staggered camera ports could have been done the same way, with flashed-over camera ports with the clear camera windows on the same sprue as the other clear parts, including the PR windscreen and hood. The deeper lower cowling and optional underwing camera blisters could have been on a sprue with the bowser wing fuel tank vents. The wings would be the  deal breaker. The ideal but most expensive route would be new upper and lower wings with all of the armament blisters and case ejection chutes filled, as well as the correct panel lines, which they did for their Fw-190A kits. Another possibility would have been to mold the Mk VIII/IX wings with separate panels where the cannon fairings were located on the upper wings, along with a diagram showing which panel lines needed to be filled and/or scribed on the upper and lower wings, much like some Fujimi and Hasegawa kits. 

 

Me, I don't have a problem with filling and rescribing panel lines; others might abhor that, but have no problem making a deeper lower cowling from scratch; others, as I have seen in  amazement, are able to do unbelievable cross-kitting and splicing together fuselage sections with ease.  I guess it all boils down to if a  modeler wants a version of any airplane badly enough, he/she will do whatever it takes to build one- each depending more or less upon the skills the builder possesses as to how the job is gone about or to what extent  a model is converted to achieve the desired end. There's definitely more than one way to skin a cat or a PR XI!

Mike

 

That being said, doing a 1/72 Hurricane Mk V from the existing kits and resin bits is soooo much easier! 😜

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Alleycat did a PRXI conversion for the Tamiya IX in 1/32 scale. I built one a few years ago.  The instructions included diagrams on what needed to be re-scribed on the wing and the fuselage. If you think they might be helpful I can dig them out and post them here. 

 

Carl

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6 hours ago, FG2Si said:

Alleycat did a PRXI conversion for the Tamiya IX in 1/32 scale. I built one a few years ago.  The instructions included diagrams on what needed to be re-scribed on the wing and the fuselage. If you think they might be helpful I can dig them out and post them here. 

 

Please do. Any information would be useful.

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9 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Good points, all Troy-  I was thinking, but didn't express my thoughts clearly enough, that if Eduard had wanted to do a PR XI in either scale, they could have done so with some engineering forethought on their Mk VIII kits. The radio hatch could have been done as a separate part- one with a  camera port, and one without, or with a flashed-over camera port in the fuselage halves. The belly staggered camera ports could have been done the same way, with flashed-over camera ports with the clear camera windows on the same sprue as the other clear parts, including the PR windscreen and hood. The deeper lower cowling and optional underwing camera blisters could have been on a sprue with the bowser wing fuel tank vents. The wings would be the  deal breaker. The ideal but most expensive route would be new upper and lower wings with all of the armament blisters and case ejection chutes filled, as well as the correct panel lines, which they did for their Fw-190A kits. Another possibility would have been to mold the Mk VIII/IX wings with separate panels where the cannon fairings were located on the upper wings, along with a diagram showing which panel lines needed to be filled and/or scribed on the upper and lower wings, much like some Fujimi and Hasegawa kits. 

 

Me, I don't have a problem with filling and rescribing panel lines; others might abhor that, but have no problem making a deeper lower cowling from scratch; others, as I have seen in  amazement, are able to do unbelievable cross-kitting and splicing together fuselage sections with ease.  I guess it all boils down to if a  modeler wants a version of any airplane badly enough, he/she will do whatever it takes to build one- each depending more or less upon the skills the builder possesses as to how the job is gone about or to what extent  a model is converted to achieve the desired end. There's definitely more than one way to skin a cat or a PR XI!

Mike

 

That being said, doing a 1/72 Hurricane Mk V from the existing kits and resin bits is soooo much easier! 😜

 

Designing a fuselage to allow for both Mk.VIII and PR.XI is not only a matter of having some camera ports: the PR windcreen follows the original Spitfire pattern at its lower frame and this was changed with the introduction of the internally armoured windscreen. Eduard correctly moulded their Mk.VIII fuselage with the shape of the armoured windcreen lower frame.

The only way to allow for both options in a kit is to mould the fuselage without this area and mould within the clear part the section of the fuselage where the windscreen fits.

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8 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Designing a fuselage to allow for both Mk.VIII and PR.XI is not only a matter of having some camera ports: the PR windcreen follows the original Spitfire pattern at its lower frame and this was changed with the introduction of the internally armoured windscreen. Eduard correctly moulded their Mk.VIII fuselage with the shape of the armoured windcreen lower frame.

The only way to allow for both options in a kit is to mould the fuselage without this area and mould within the clear part the section of the fuselage where the windscreen fits.

Yep- forgot all about that, Giorgio; thanks for catching this  and your suggestion for the best way to allow for that option on the fuselage tooling is right on the money! Bravissimo!

Mike

 

Now, if they will just do it! I can't think of too many   Spitfire types  more beautiful  than a PR XI with invasion stripes!

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5 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Yep- forgot all about that, Giorgio; thanks for catching this  and your suggestion for the best way to allow for that option on the fuselage tooling is right on the money! Bravissimo!

Mike

 

Now, if they will just do it! I can't think of too many   Spitfire types  more beautiful  than a PR XI with invasion stripes!

 

Well, I can think of one... a PR.XIX with invasion stripes 😁

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4 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Well, I can think of one... a PR.XIX with invasion stripes 😁

Oboy- you got me there! That makes two beautiful PR Spits!

Mike

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I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc. etc... however to me the XIX is the best looking Spitfire, as blends the grace of the classic high-back elliptic wing design with the more aggressive look of the Griffon engined variants. The lack of guns and the rounder windscreen make this even more elegant.. and the non-pressurized subvariant is IMHO even better.

Of course it's only a matter of taste, many will prefer the original look of the early variants, others may find the two-stage Merlin engined variants as the most pleasing while some may even prefer the very late and more aggressive looking Mk.22/24 or maybe even the Seafire 47. To me the XIX strikes the perfect balance of the various features seen on the many Spitfire variants, but I will not object to the preferences of others, as all Spitfires are beautiful machines. Ok, maybe the 47 is a bit less so.. 😁😁😁

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I have 2 copies of the Airfix Spifire FR 46/47 and a few months ago I got the Airfix Spitfire F22/24.

one of the reasons I like the 47 over the 46 is the option of camera ports (although no cameras )

the MK 24 should be listed as an FR 24 as it has camera ports ,too (guess what mark I'm building)

the Trumpeter  MK 14 Spiteful kit has a camera port and a camera. so yes I am including it.

so as you can tell I like Spitfires with guns as well as cameras.

 

 I Thank all of you for your help and interest.

 

stay safe - don't catch that damn coronavirus !

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Hi All!

     I have done 2, both with the ICM Spitfire. Though not as nice as the Eduard kit, it does look like a Spitfire. To camo the narrow upper fuselage, make sure you open the canopy. Back to the PR.XI.

     The first conversion I filled in the wing(s) (I also did a PR.X at the same time). I had an Airwaves conversion set and used that. The second one I tried to use the Airfix PR.19 wing on the ICM fuselage, but it was more work than it was worth. I then filled in the lines of the ICM wing. Knowing I would do a second PR.XI, I had copied the resin bits.  The hardest part was getting a PR windscreen!

     I would love to use an Eduard Spitfire for every build, but I do not have the budget for it, so the use of the ICM kit.

     I have built 16+ ICM kits, so if anyone needs help with the build, shoot me an e-mail at :

bad at cfl dot rr dot com

 

Bruce

 

PS I cannot insert an image

 

 

Edited by Bruce Archer
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Can't really add to the technical side of things, but as to any colour you like as long as it's blue, then this might be of interest...

 

https://www.3040100.com.ar/spitfire-en-la-aviacion-argentina/

 

and as a bonus, there's a Hurricane in there too.

 

Maybe some of our Argentinian members have more? Perhaps @Uncle Uncool will drop in?!

 

Trevor

 

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On 05/04/2020 at 23:21, Troy Smith said:

USAAF (with a few in NMF)

 

1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

but as to any colour you like as long as it's blue,

 

8033938131_e1d8157f4b_o.jpgSupermarine Spitfire PR.XI, PA892, USAAF by SDASM Archives, on Flickr

 

 

I have dim memories of seeing this or similar in color, but it escapes me at the mo...

 

 

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