Sukhoi Su-17 Type R (1949)

[Flankerman]

The latest from A&A Models growing range of obscure Soviet aircraft - the 1949 Sukhoi Su-17 Type 'R' :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-17_(1949)

 

Box art....

 

 

Fuselage and port fin insert.....

 

 

Wings, tailplanes and upper wing fences....

 

 

Engine, wheels, cockpit etc...

 

 

Two decal sheets, open or closed canopy and etched fret. Not shown are the self-adhesive masks for the wheels and canopy.

 

 

Painting guide - keyed to Humbrol enamels.....

 

 

The plastic parts are well moulded in light grey plastic with fine engraved panel detail.

 

This is a very comprehensive package which includes self-adhesive masks for the canopy and wheels plus etched-brass parts for the ejection seat belts and undercarriage struts.

 

I already have a Type R in my collection - from Legato...

 

 

But this new kit from A&A is in a totally different league..... and I can't wait to get it started...

 

Ken

[Flankerman]

I've started....

 

Being a typical short-run kit, all the components have large sprue gates and all parts have to be 'cleaned up' and 'fettled' before assembly...

 

The nosewheel bay is made up from four parts, the mainwheel bay from five.......

 

 

The cockpit (which doubles as the intake trunk) has eight parts (not including the etched seatbelts)....

 

 

The jetpipe is in two halves - with a turbine face and two-part central cone.....

 

 

All the sub-assemblies (minus the ejection seat) ready to fit(?) inside the fuselage...

 

Note that the nosewheel bay is attached to the cockpit rear bulkhead).

 

 

Ken

 

 

 

[Flankerman]

Meanwhile......

 

The intake/cockpit, main wheel bays and jetpipe are installed into the starboard fuselage half...

 

 

The port fuselage half was (with difficulty and lots of clamping) cemented in place ......... it was only when the cement had set and the clamps were removed

that I discovered that the intake splitter was not aligned vertically and the nosewheel bay was offset.......

 

So I took the drastic action of splitting the fuselage halves apart - and 3 rounds and lots of fettling later, I finally beat it into submission......

 

 

There were still visible joint lines along the spine - and bottom of the fuselage... requiring filler.....

 

 

But, once sanded down, the joints look OK-ish....

 

 

Onto the wings - they are moulded in upper and lower halves - with the lower as an insert to give a sharp trailing edge....

 

Guess what? - the lower insert needes thinning down to eliminate the inevitable 'step' ......

 

 

They say it's character building.........

 

Stay Safe...

 

Ken

 

[RidgeRunner]

Very nice, Ken. I'm always up for something different ..... in the modelling sense, of course!

 

Martin

 

 

[Aardvark]

On 4/4/2020 at 2:08 PM, Flankerman said:

Sukhoi Su-17 Type 'R' :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-17_(1949)

It would be interesting to put it next to this British project:

but Armstrong Withworth AW 58 project in my opinion no one does?

 

(Resource photo official Facebook page The Aviation Historian magazine)

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[corsaircorp]

Soooo !!

This is from the Su-17 is coming ??

I did'nt knew of this one, Generally, I like the Sukhoi design !

Well done Sir !!

CC

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, corsaircorp said:

This is from the Su-17 is coming ??

AW.58 can perhaps be called a good illustration of the same aerodynamic solutions implemented at the same time in different countries.  At the same time, if You's look at the cutaway key* of the design, then the Su-17 (R)

and A.W.58 are different planes.  As an example, the design of the channels inside the air intake, in the Su-17 (R) the design of the channel as in the MiG-15/17/19/21, Su-7/9/17 and in the A.W.58 as Gloster Pioneer. Also Su-17(R) have jet engine close to wing center section but A.W.58 have jet engine to tail.

But aerodynamic scheme Su-17(R) & A.W.58.

very close.

 

But at the same time, we cannot exclude industrial espionage from either side.

🤗

 

 

B.R.

Serge

 

_______________

* - ofcource due to possible problems with copyright, I can’t place a cutaway key 

Armstrong Withworth A.W. 58

in this topic, but you's can find it in article about A.W.58 here:

(as no strange, I found only this free picture cover magazine in internet.)

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Aardvark

[corsaircorp]

Here it is !!

That thread sparked the envy to start my OEZ 1/48 Fishpot !!

And then Serge show the Airacobra...

I have 2 resplendant soviet markings for them !!

But, I must stay calm and finish my Yaks before !!

Sincerely.

CC

[Flankerman]

A little progress.......

 

Wings and tailplanes attached.....

 

 

 

Unlike the A.W. 58, the Type R was actually built - but never flown due to politics - which led to Sukhoi OKB being deactivated.

 

Ken

[Flankerman]

The Type R has three chordwise fences on each upper wing - and A&A provide them in plastic.

 

They are very thin (almost scale thickness) and very delicate - but have large flow gates that must be carefully removed and cleaned up.

 

There are engraved lines on the wing surface showing where they go - but they are just butt-joined - although, mercifully, they went on OK...

 

 

What you might call 'Wing Fenced'.......

 

Ken

[Tim R-T-C]

Fascinating aircraft, I love the early Soviet jets. Nice work so far 😁

[qn30jEkPz7]

On 17/05/2020 at 12:15, Aardvark said:

It would be interesting to put it next to this British project:

but Armstrong Withworth AW 58 project in my opinion no one does?

 

(Resource photo official Facebook page The Aviation Historian magazine)

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Do you have a link to that page at all? Another one to add to my to-do list

[Aardvark]

12 hours ago, Flankerman said:

but never flown due to politics - which led to Sukhoi OKB being deactivated.

Based on the information available to date, there was a combination of several reasons.

 

When the Su-17 (R) was built, it had the following problems:

- jet engine Lulka TR-3 was actually not brought and also have a problem with stability work;

- was not tested

ejection seat;

- ejection cockpit also tested only as model on aerodynamic tube.

Thus, to test an airplane with an unstable engine, without a stable means of rescue with a high sweep wing, whose behavior is unknown, all this created a high risk for the test pilot.

At that time, the Sukhoi design bureau was unsuccessful with the Su-15 (P), Su-9/11, the Su-12 was unclaimed, the four-engine Su-10 bomber with its crazy design remained only as a project,

little series was only prop engine training bomber UTB-2....in general, for Sukhoi design bureau

things were bad. In addition, the TR-3 engine Lulka required to run airfield equipment and did not have the ability to run autonomously.

Naturally, they demanded that Lulka modify the engine.

At the same time, the country was actually in ruins after one of the most bloody wars of the 20th century, except for the Sukhoi Design Bureau, also work Design Bureau Lavochkin, Yakovlev, Mikoyan, Antonov, Tupolev, ILjushin, Alekseev, Mill, Bartini, Kamov, Myasischev, Baade, Tcibin, Bisnovat, Kondratev...in serial production of only fighters there were 3 types - MiG-15, La-15 and Yak-23....also was atomic program, missile program, strategic bomber program, e.t.c......end don't forget USSR was  in ruins! What economy can it stand?  Naturally, it was necessary to reduce costs and close those design bureaus whose projects were unsuccessful for various reasons .... as you read above, Sukhoi was among them!

Therefore it's clear  economic.

Sukhoi OKB being deactivated.

Sukhoi was became deputy Tupolev, as in the 30s.

 

Su-17(R) go to LII, but remember he had engine problems! 

At the same time, the installation of a modernized engine required modernization of the design, which could be performed only in the Sukhoi Design Bureau, which was already gone!

As a result, the Su-17 (R) went to scrap! Could it be otherwise?  I think no!  Because the TR-3 engine was also installed on Ilyushin IL-30, which also did not take off due to problems with the engine.

Moreover, the further development of the TR-3 -  AL-5 also proved to be an unsuccessful engine that destroyed the Mikoyan I-350 and Lavochkin La-190.

 

Thus, the bet on an unfinished engine and economic reasons led to such a sad result.

 

4 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

Do you have a link to that page at all?

See PM.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Flankerman]

Thanks for the interesting history lesson Aardvark....

 

Ken

[Aardvark]

7 hours ago, Flankerman said:

Thanks for the interesting history lesson Aardvark....

But this not the whole story.  You probably want to know where the rumors about the "political" reasons for the liquidation of the Sukhoi Design Bureau came from?

Usually, political reasons mean the following reasons: "Stalin did not like Sukhoi"!

Why? 

The most widespread version is that after the death of Petlyakov in a plane crash, Stalin called Sukhoi to him and suggested that he lead Petlyakov Design Bureau and engage in Pe-2.  Sukhoi did not immediately give a positive answer and asked for time to think for a day after the conversation.  Stalin allegedly agreed, and after Sukhoi* left, he said: "Look how legible he is! I wanted to think!"  After that, Myasishchev was appointed to engage in Pe-2, and by 1945 he had made the Soviet Mosquito - Pe-2I / Pe-2M .... which by that time was no longer needed, and besides, the VK-107 engine was bad.

Such a version is present in Yakovlev's book, “The Purpose of Life,” which allegedly was present during the conversation.

But literally in March, an article about this story was published in one of the Russian magazines.

As a preface.  In those days, the Kremlin kept a journal of registration of visitors to Stalin, which recorded who came to him, when he came to him and how long the visit lasted.  Naturally, transcripts of the conversations were conducted, but they were not published, and the "Journal of the registration of visitors to Stalin during the war years" was published.

And according to the visitor registration magazine, Sukhoi was with Stalin during the war only twice in 1942 and in 1943, and in 1942 he was with Stalin when Petlyakov was still alive, and in 1943 he was with Stalin when Pe-2 was already engaged  Myasishchev! 

It was easy to check, because it is enough to compare the dates of Sukhoi’s visits to Stalin and the dates of Petlyakov’s life as well as Myasishchev’s appointment.

In addition, it is allegedly known that during the Sukhoi’s visit to Stalin the Sukhoi Su-6 attack aircraft was discussed, which was never put into production, but Sukhoi received the Goverment Stalin Premium  for Su-6! 

That is, Stalin did not like Sukhoi so much that he gave him the Government  Stalin's Premium for a plane that did not fight and was built in 1-2 copies!

😁😁😁

Nevertheless, the story of "Sukhoi’s reverie" has a real basis!

 

This basis was described in a recent series of articles on the pre-war fighter contest in the USSR published in several issues of "Aviation and Cosmonautics"magazine.

 

As all know, in pre-war year Sukhoi work on high altitude fighter Su-1/3 with turbocharger. But in order to produce airplanes in series, a mass production plant is needed on a mass scale. But all the aircraft factories in Moscow and nearby were loaded with aircraft of other designers, therefore, for serial Su-1 / Su-3, a plant is allocated to Kharkov. It's about 1000 km from Moscow. 

You won’t go round-trip every day, so many Sukhoi Design Bureau employees need to move from Moscow to Kharkov.  In fact, from the country capital to the province.

The situation is aggravated by the fact that when moving, you need to vacate state apartments in Moscow!  No, in Kharkov, of course, the state will also allocate state apartments for free .... but we remember - the province! 

And for half a year there has been a "bureaucratic 

war" for apartments in Moscow, that is, the question is being solved so that apartments in Moscow would remain the property of those who will work in Kharkov! 

Of course, the launch of the Su-1 / Su-3 series will not be bent ..... for a second (!) 1940 ... a big war in a year (of course, no one knew the exact date, but everyone knew that there would be a war ...  the air was electrified by this, my grandfather told me)....there is an emergency rearmament of the army, new fighters are needed, because the massive I-16 is already outdated in all respects .....employees of the Sukhoi Design Bureau for half a year share apartments in Moscow ....No, from the point of view of today, I understand them ....

 

It is possible that this very story, many times twisted, served as the basis for the story of "Sukhoi's thoughtfulness" ....

 

In total, from the time of the release of the Su-2 before the war, in Sukhoi Design Bureau until its closure, in addition to projects, they were built and tested Su-1/3, Su-5, Su-6, Su-7, Su-8, Su-9/11, Su-12, Su-15(P), Su-17(R), UTB-2...but until UTB-2 no one aircraft no was in series...any series, no mass series(!) .....and all this jazz

it cost a lot of money for the USSR...it would seem that there are enough reasons for hatred for 10 life sentences in the Gulag, 

but the "bloody tyrant" Stalin awards the Sukhoi Government  Stalin Premium  and only sends him to work for Tupolev....

 

Of course, this is just my summary of four journal articles from memory, so there may be inaccuracies, but the general plot today is like that.  Perhaps he will be with others with the advent of new research, but whether they lie will radically change what is stated in these articles.

 

Now you's know the latest Russian historical research, in my short summary.

_____________

* - but Sukhoi worked a bit on the Pe-2.  After the disaster in which Petlyakov died, his design bureau was periodically led by Putilov and after Isakson

until Myasischev.  Isakson was a helicopter designer (by the way, he wrote a reference book, "Soviet Helicopter Engineering")

since the flight characteristics of the Pe-2 became worse, Sukhoi was appointed to help one of the designers (I don’t remember, in my opinion, Isakson).

Sukhoi approached this task with responsibility and seconded his staff so that they would give recommendations on restoring the characteristics of the Pe-2 to the pre-war level.

Therefore, Sukhoi also contributed to the improvement of the Pe-2 during the war.

 

 

 B.R.

Serge

 

[Flankerman]

Primered.......

 

 

.... ready for the silver overall....

 

 

Ken

[Flankerman]

Following a final rub-down of the grey primer, I sprayed the whole model using a rattle can of Halfords 'Aluminium'.

 

The front end was polished to highlight the detachable nose section and the decals (six red stars) applied.......

 

 

The whole lot weas sealed in using a rattle can of Games Workshop 'Purity Seal' - a great satin acrylic varnish.....

 

 

All it needs now is the addition of the wingtip navigation lights and the undercarriage........

 

 

.... which I am dreading..........

 

 

The whole levered-suspension maingear is very weak - there is a very poor location at the top of the leg inside the wheel well (almost non-existant)

- and there are no locating tabs for the front fork, nor the trailing links - they are just supposed to butt-join to the legs...  

 

Just look at the raised 'dimple' at middle top - that's supposed the be the mainwheel axle !!!

 

If the wheels were at right-angles to the leg - and the axles were longer - it would be slightly stronger - but the strain on those trailing joints is going to be problematic.

 

I'm beginning to lose the will to finish it.......

 

Ken

 

 

[alt-92]

No idea what's in the toolbox, or if you're so inclined, but would some small-diameter brass tubing be an option here?

At the least, you could solder that to give it some more 'beef'.