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1/350 HMS Kent County Class Cruiser 1941


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Gidday Rob, I'm no expert but if I was about to do the boot topping I think I'd have gone for 3mm. But I'm a firm believer of "quit while you're ahead" and not spoil what you've already done. But then again, if it bothers you being 2mm it could hit you in the face every time you see it. Confusing? I think it will come down to how difficult it would be to deepen it (if that's what you want) against the chances of spoiling a very good paint job. Ultimately your decision I'm afraid.¬†ūüėÄ Regards, Jeff.

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Your cutters are looking ' Proper Job ' as they do say down here ....

 

Your paint jobby makes her look ethereal 

 

Boot topping :hmmm: 2mm = 700mm /28"

                                3mm=  1050mm/41"

 

I reckon 2mm looks/sounds OK

 

Stay safe

 

Kev

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2 hours ago, robgizlu said:

What do you think  - Stick with 2mm topping or go for 3mm (with lots more yummy masking:shrug:)??

Hi Rob,

I'm no expert.  But from just eye balling the few pic's I can find of RN capital ships in dry dock, I think the 3mm topping would look more accurate if (like beefy said) you're going to display the ship on pedestals.  Sorry :(

e.g. spacer.pngspacer.png

 

John

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There doesn't seem to be much visual difference between the hull and anti fouling colours in the last photo (Howe?) look along the forefoot in the sunshine.

Tom

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5 hours ago, JohnWS said:

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Wow, that picture, and @FlyingSpanner's assessment, certainly suggest a much thicker black band. I know very little about the subject but wondered whether the black band differs, depending on the potential displacement difference of the actual vessel itself? i.e. bigger vessels, greater range? I'm probably talking rubbish!

 

Terry

 

 

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Gidday All, bear in mind the photos above are of battleships of 3-4 times the displacement of HMS Kent.

I understood that the purpose of boot topping was to 'hide' any oil stains on the hull while in a harbour, not necessarily to mark the upper and lower limits of the water-line, when the ship is standard or full load displacement. So there could be variations between ships of the same type and size. But I could be wrong. HTH. Regards, Jeff.

Edited by ArnoldAmbrose
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The British boot topping composition was a more adept corrosion inhibitor (than our other paints). I keep hearing Americans schooling me that it was simply a beautification stripe but that contradicts primary source British evidence.

 

British period documents prescribe its use at the heavily oxidised waterline where corrosion is most aggressive and indeed the boot topping was not to be omitted even on light type camouflage schemes which were to be painted over the top of the boot topping right down to the waterline. Naturally therefore, we can deduce that the British boot topping composition was not an ordinary black paint but a special and rather expensive concoction used only where it was observed to make a real difference to corrosion.

 

The boot topping itself would be painted on to span the heavy and light load waterline draft marks for that ship with a bit of comfort room either side, so yes, the depth will vary from ship type to ship type. A fully fuelled, provisioned, crewed and armed battleship will sit rather lower in the water than an empty one. Generally I think we can safely say that British boot toppings tend to be wider than most first think. :)

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Northstar but a post on their FB site that it took 3 weeks for a package to reach their border, so the delays are just silly. It takes 2 months to get to Oz pre Covid. 

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1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

British period documents prescribe its use at the heavily oxidised waterline where corrosion is most aggressive

We were still using a specialised "wind & wave" paint on a strip approx 2 metres deep above the antifouling on container ships well into the 90's. This paint was supposedly more resistant to the harsher environment encountered in this region of the hull, and as suggested, was much more expensive. It wasn't really noticable on our ships though, as it was the same colour as the upper hull, there was a subtle difference when new but that soon wore off.

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Thanks to all who have commented.  The broad consensus is clearly "Deeper/wider"  boot topping is more appropriate.  I looked at as many pics as I could find and it's certainly apparent that pre-war the boot topping frequently rose well above the waterline - during the war - it's often not visible on camouflaged ships as per the intent to take Camo down to waterline.  The danger of making it too deep on a model is that you lose the proportions with red anti-fouling 9if that makes sense).  lesson learned - ask first - do second.  

 

So here's the 3mm version (more masking tape on order :whistle:)

 

DSCF9437

 

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.....and it just looks "righter".  BTW - y'all know I'm a fully paid up fan member for Colourcoats, I've masked+++ with impunity and not encountered a single episode of paint lifting :D

 

I ordered this from my newest latest greatest supplier https://www.scalelinkfretcetera.co.uk/

 

DSCF9429

 

They are to be commended - the three times I've ordered from them - the pieces have arrived the following day.  They deserve to be better known.

Reading norman Ough's book I discovered that these pieces between the masts are ventilators - logical really.  They had mesh vent openings, thus the above

 

DSCF9434

 

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You can also see "Bob's Buckles" embedded in the deck awaiting the funnel stays.

 

Once again - Thanks everyone for really helpful - input, insight and comment :clap2:

Rob

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3 hours ago, robgizlu said:

... So here's the 3mm version .....and it just looks "righter". ...

Agreed!  It does look more in scale.

 

Overall, she's coming along nicely.  :worthy:  I'm learning a lot.  I've even ordered some Micro Master parts based on your experience. :giggle:

 

John

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnWS said:

I've even ordered some Micro Master parts based on your experience. :giggle:

John

 

 

John - I don't think you'll be disapointed. However, reading and seeing Norman Ough's work where he made everything from scratch - paper wood etc - makes me feel slightly unworthy - however that was his life.  You come very close with your work - my patience just runs thin when a build really extends.  The instant gratification of adding the Micromaster highly detailed parts fits just neatly for me :whistle:

Rob

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8 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The British boot topping composition was a more adept corrosion inhibitor (than our other paints). I keep hearing Americans schooling me that it was simply a beautification stripe but that contradicts primary source British evidence.

 

British period documents prescribe its use at the heavily oxidised waterline where corrosion is most aggressive and indeed the boot topping was not to be omitted even on light type camouflage schemes which were to be painted over the top of the boot topping right down to the waterline. Naturally therefore, we can deduce that the British boot topping composition was not an ordinary black paint but a special and rather expensive concoction used only where it was observed to make a real difference to corrosion.

 

The boot topping itself would be painted on to span the heavy and light load waterline draft marks for that ship with a bit of comfort room either side, so yes, the depth will vary from ship type to ship type. A fully fuelled, provisioned, crewed and armed battleship will sit rather lower in the water than an empty one. Generally I think we can safely say that British boot toppings tend to be wider than most first think.

Exemple of typical corrosion / abrasion :

 

Screenshot-2020-05-28-13-01-47-889.jpg

 

 

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Rob:

 

Are you sure that the three squat, square vents on the AA gun deck between the stacks were fitted with wire mesh screens around their base? I believe that these vents had slightly curved horizontally mounted clamshell-type louvres that would open and close as required to allow venting (each consisted of a two horizontal louvres--one opened upwards, the other downwards). I've never discerned any screens in the photos I've seen.  Here is a picture of HMS Suffolk from the IWM with the vents in the open position, and with crew members huddle around them--presumably for warmth. On the far right, you can see the top and bottom louvres opened slightly. In the center, the louvres are opened more widely. I have seen better pictures of these vents elsewhere, but these are the best ones immediately at hand. LMK if you need more detailed views.

 

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Anyhow, hope this helps! And keep up the great work!!!

 

Best,

 

Mike E.

Edited by michaele
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Mike - thanks for that - great pic and one I've not seen before, and it's pretty compelling

 

I took the prod from this Norman Ough diagram - with the sort of ventilator supplied with Kent being closest to that depicted middleish left 

 

scan234232309 (2)

 

They'll be coming off.

Shame really as the mesh rather tarted up otherwise featurless pieces :weep:

Rob

 

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I was researching Tribal Class Colour schemes this morning when bizarrely I stumbled across these pics...

 

5e7af4ce66961127bc61ab49_WEdMAIN

 

HMSC-Regina-Canadian-Navy-Facebook-October-18-2019-e1573228796887

 

HMCS Regina in a commemorative scheme for the75th anniversary of the Battle of The Atlantic.  

Here's a link https://www.capnews.ca/news/covid19-hmcs-regina-cfb-esquimalt

They've clearly bought into Jamie's revision of B15 :winkgrin:

Fascinating to see "historical" colurs on modern lines.  I think she looks magnificent.

 

So back to reality and the fairly rapid progress over the last 2 weeks is likely to hit the buffers as my trip to the Norwegian Fjords has come to an end and it's back to the Mud wrestling tomorrow.

 

Railings.  And thanks to that kind soul who posted on my Ithuriel thread explaining that the easy way to curve photo etch was to roll it whilst pressing into a rubber.  I can't find the thread but it's the single best piece of advice I 've had in the recent past - THANKS!

 

DSCF9440

 

One minor disapointemt is the catapult.  Kent's differed from Cornwall/Berwicks and so there's no photoetch help here.  The kit offering is OK but it would have been nice to have done one in etch (perhaps - Peter Hall will include if he does the Kent PE for WEM?) :unsure:

 

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I spent the rest of the day cleaning up the revamped 3mm boot topping and Camouflage.

 

I tried this AK interactive "airbrush stencil mask" to show some very subtle weathering on the bow hull sides and the anti-fouling.  The pics don't really do the reality justice.  It's an easier and more convenient method than the salt method - spraying very slightly lightened paint over the base colour.  The Weathering brief here is that Kent had just come out of refit so would not be very beat up or weathered - that would result after a couple of Arctice convoys!

 

DSCF9447

 

DSCF9446

 

I've done a very minor mount of rust staining  from the anchor openings (?Hawsers).  I'm careful lest the enamel based "Rust effects" damage the Colourcoats BUT the diffusion works better;  before I apply several coats of Klear tp begin weathering in earnest

 

DSCF9452

 

Here's the hull now ready for Gloss "Klear" coats and proof if needed that 3mm boot topping works Better!! :footy:

DSCF9449

 

DSCF9450

 

As ever - thanks for looking 

Rob

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The deck railings have came out very nice¬†and the checker plate on the bow has worked a treat really¬†striking camo scheme on that modern ship¬†¬†ūüĎć

When you say you were looking at Tribal schemes is that because those Big Boy's have been around again  :whistle:

 

Stay Safe

 

beefy

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1 hour ago, robgizlu said:

... HMCS Regina in a commemorative scheme for the75th anniversary of the Battle of The Atlantic. ...

... Fascinating to see "historical" colurs on modern lines.  I think she looks magnificent. ...

I really like that scheme, as well.

 

The RCAF has had some pretty awesome paint schemes on their demo jets over the years.  It's was nice to see that the RCN now has their own custom scheme to be proud of. :speak_cool:

 

John

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17 hours ago, robgizlu said:

anchor openings (?Hawsers)

Gidday Rob, hawse pipes. Hawsers are heavy rope, for towing (towing hawser), tying the ship to the wharf (berthing hawsers or berthing lines) etc. HTH.

 

HMS Kent is looking very good, those PE guard rails enhance the model considerably.

Regards, Jeff.

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On 19/06/2020 at 08:31, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Speaking purely for myself, I was the polar opposite and from long before I ever knew Colourcoats existed. My airbrush wasn't so much stripped to its component parts at the end of every acrylic paint job but usually half way through as well.  It used to drive me up the wall especially since I had been a fairly happy early 1990s Humbrol enamel user prior to being told by some berks at a local model club that I really needed to get up to date and change to acrylics which, having lost a child's confidence but had not yet realised my own milage was worth a million times more to me than anyone elses' for my own purposes, I sheepishly did.

 

White spirit is of limited use for airbrush cleaning as it's too long an average molecule length really. That's also why it takes a geological age to evaporate off and let the paint dry.

 

I'm convinced it's white spirit use which has gained enamels the bad smell/slow drying/generally inconvenient reputation it has.

Thanks Jamie.  I think perhaps you're right about the white spirit giving enamels the bad name.  I should buy some decent thinners rather than using B&Q's finest!  But then I might also find it easier if I bought some of your paints as well - all of my enamels are fairly old Humbrol

 

On 19/06/2020 at 09:37, robgizlu said:

Thanks Guys - always appreciate the nice things you say :blush:

 

Thanks Chewbacca.  Jamie mentioned producing masks and I had half an idea to send him my Tamyia masking tape "originals".  This was an idea however, that failed to survive first contact. I had to redo several sections and what began as order turned into pragmatic chaos :lol:  The trick if there is one is to gauge where the lines begin and end and transfer by guestimation from imperfect source material.  Do it - judge it doesn't look right and then redo it :phew:  One more plug for Jamie's paints is that the opacity allows for single oversprays to "redo".

 

As to enamels and cleaning airbrushes, After spraying I squirt a little bit of white spirit into the cup and use a cotton bud at both ends to "clean" off all the dried paint and firm residue.  Then put soome kitchen roll over the nozzle and "blow-back" - empty that "dirty" white spirit into a kitchen platic tub of cat-litter sitting below my desk (I spray exxcess paint into this with minimal fumes).  Put some more white spirit into the cup and blow threw onto kitchen roll until clear.  I occasionally spray some Liquid reamer threw and take the needle out altogether to wipe and draw some reamer threw the "bare" nozzle onto kitchen roll.  I do all the same with acrylics but need to use three times as much reamer and airbrush cleaner and take 3 times as long.  I'm then still surprised by how much gunk I still get out if I "tamp" the needles threw the nozzle against a kitchen towel using reamer.  Because the acrylic dries so quicly and sludges, this is why it's such a chore.

As to enamel drying time - I can mask and recoat within 3 hours if I'm careful, using Colourcoats naptha thinner.  The only thing I miss using Colourcoats are dropper bottles.  As it is I stir the paint with a stirrer - use that to "drop" globs into a little plastic cup that we get at the end of Braun Thermometer Thermoscan "probe covers" and drop naptha in using a glass pipette dropper (few pence from EBay).  Mixing different colours is slightly less precise than with dropper bottles because it's harder to regulate "Glob" size - if that all makes sense.

 

And BTW - you mentioned previously about doing Kent in an earlier version - there's a wood deck here going begging that I don't need that's yours - PM your address if you're interested.

 

I bought the DVD for £1.71 plus postage as a trial.  I've just bought the set :winkgrin:.

Hi RGL

I cheated - I used the HMS Cornwall deck which perversely has the plated Foc'sle.  I bought my diamond plate that you've seen cut out above from Fretcetera https://www.scalelinkfretcetera.co.uk/product-category/frets/anti-skid-any-scale/ abd I'm pateintly waiting for Northstar to send me a better anti-skid represenation (2 months to date!!!!!).  I now have 2 County class kits so I'm building Berwick alongside which will be waterline.

 

Thanks Mike

Just bought the set :D

 

Rob

Thanks Rob.  I must apologise, you must think me incredibly rude for not acknowledging your offer of the deck.  I've not been into maritime for about 3 weeks as I've been concentrating on my 1/48 Wasp "near scratchbuild" over in aircraft.  If the deck is still available then yes please - I'll drop you a PM.

 

Definitely agree that your 3mm boot topping is the way to go.¬† It's looking great.¬†ūüĎć

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Hi Chewbacca

No worries - I don't think you are at all rude - it's yours - PM your address and I'll drop it in the post in the next week.

And Thanks

Rob

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1 hour ago, robgizlu said:

Hi Chewbacca

No worries - I don't think you are at all rude - it's yours - PM your address and I'll drop it in the post in the next week.

And Thanks

Rob

Thanks Rob.  You have PM.

 

Forgot to say earlier - totally agree your thoughts on the Norman Ough book.  Absolutely fabulous what he achieved from scratch.  But then a few years ago I was asked to repair a 1/96 shipbuilder's model of the Leander class frigate HMS DANAE and was shocked to find that the vast majority of it was made from wood.

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Nice progress and lots of useful informations you provide.

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