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robgizlu

1/350 HMS Kent County Class Cruiser 1941

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Let the whistle blow on this build - I've been accumulating pieces for some months.  There's still not a dedicated etch set though White Ensign Models have heavily hinted.

There are however, sets for HMS Cornwall that she shared most characteristics with.

This Family of 13 Cruisers were built in the 1920's under the limits of The Washington Naval Treaty 1922, with an upper weight limit of 10,000 tons.

HMS Kent was launched in 1926 and spent the pre war years largely on the China Station.  She diiffered from others such as HMS Berwick and Cornwall with never having a seaplane hangar built due to weight limitation.

A major refi tin 1937/8 saw her fitted with a Walrus capable Catapult and Trumpeter present her largely in this guise with a minor upgrade seeing 6-7 20mm Oerlikons fitted in 1941, being encompassed.

1941/2 saw her operate out of Scapa Flow and largely take part in Arctic convoy duties.

She is well represented in photographs from that time period - largely from the Imperial war Musuem Collection, and is portrayed in Camouflage typical of that period.

References will include the following - but if anyone can direct me to further - I'd be indebted

 

DSCF9218_edited-1

 

The kit box features attracive cover art and is suitably voluminous.

 

DSCF9219

 

Aftermarket goodies iclude most of the following with more to come (Sadly Micromaster.co.nz operatiosn are currently suspended due to CV19 Lockdown)

 

DSCF9222

 

Kit instructions are B&W line drawn

 

2020-04-03_102955

 

2020-04-03_103125

 

With an attractive and broadly helpful Colour profile though I'm well aware of Trumpeter's lack of accuracy with suggested colour schemes!

 

DSCF9217_edited-1

 

There is an excellent on line resource WW2 Cruisers and Battleships with some extremely attractive Colour profiles from Mr Eric Leon.  I have permsiion from Mike at the site to share the 1941 profile.  Please check the site out for other very interesting schemes including those for HMS Kent before and after 1941.  I am very grateful to the site and Mr Leon

 

HMS Kent World-War site

 

HMS Kent large

 

I'm broadly happy that she is painted in 507c (very light) with MS1 (darkest) mid hull patches that that are themselves surrounded by B5/15 (lightish in some of the original photos).  She has unequicovally dark painted decks that I take to be the Sovereign equivalent of NARN 2

 

The only real issue for me is what colour is portrayed at bow and stern.  It's darker than the B15 but lighter than deck or MS1.  This leaves MS2, 507A or possibly MS3?  Mr Leon opts for MS2 though this has very little contrast with MS1

Any thoughts Jamie or Richard?

Here are the original pictures...all gratefully attributed to and with sincere Thanks to the Imperial War Museum Collection

 

 

HMS KENT, BRITISH KENT CLASS CRUISER. 3 NOVEMBER 1941, AT ANCHOR IN SCAPA FLOW.

 

AERIAL VIEWS OF HMS KENT. 28 OCTOBER 1941, SCAPA FLOW.

 

HMS KENT, BRITISH KENT CLASS CRUISER. 3 NOVEMBER 1941, AT ANCHOR IN SCAPA FLOW.

 

febaed0539f785c62ca6c66d4663ec08

 

ON BOARD HMS MALAYA. OCTOBER 1941.

 

HMS_Kent_rear-turret-hockey

 

And aren't they beautiful pictures!

 

My feeling is that bow and stern is Not MS2 but most likely 507C and possibly MS3 which would give the greatest contrast with the mid hull MS1/B5.

 

So here's what the Hull looks like

 

DSCF9216

 

I applaud the protective wrapping that Trumpeter use 

 

And to get an idea of size there's little HMS Anchusa next to it (Still 1/350)

 

DSCF9223

 

DSCF9224

 

The model will be mounted on plinths - and I anticipate no obvious build problems or need to scratch along the way.  The Micromaster parts will suitably "pimp" it up.

Weathering will be light to moderate.

The Hull painting will come first which is why I'm keen to get a paint plan in my mind.

As ever thanks for looking

Rob

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The above is how Alan Raven's Warship Perspectives Volume 1 portrays the ship, albeit the colour representation is better in Raven's with the 507C appearing bluish and MS2 at the bow and stern being a more neutral grey rather than a green as above.

 

NARN29rgb_a91fe543-ce9e-46a4-8b89-4e534dNARN22rgb_bea43574-1b61-4a7a-af2d-13640bNARN28rgb_3ee1fe43-5df2-4d8b-8751-4f81bbRN07_5caa0865-48c0-4b20-a39d-d79b3854d42 on the port bow seems to hang together ok?

 

The photographs in B&W don't show a huge difference in tone between the paint on either side of the bow versus the panels claiming as being B5, however they are slightly darker which MS3 isn't, so that would imply an inversion of the paints (i.e. B5 would need to be on the bow and the lighter MS3 would need to be that diagonal line from the port side of A&B turrets going down and aft.

 

Unless Richard knows better (he might not be around so much right now) I'd probably go with the above/Alan Raven's (note there are slight differences on the middle funnel between Raven and Leon's portrayal. Both may be correct at certain times - I don't know - I haven't checked).

 

 

 

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Thanks Jamie - so if  I'm reading that correctly,  Raven feels the bow colour is definitely MS2 NOT 507A OR MS3?

 

Thanks+++

Rob

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Hmm thought you said you were going to finish some builds first before starting this  Kettle Black and all that

 

Just saying  :whistle: but will still be watching over your shoulder to see what tips I can get for Cornwall :popcorn:

 

beefy

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I look forward to following this.  My KENT is sitting in the cupboard and is about 3rd or 4th in line so probably 12-15 months away.

 

If you don't mind me asking, because I haven't bought any aftermarket for it yet nor even done the research to find out what's out there, would you be so kind as to publish a list of those goodies you show in that 3rd photo?  

 

Thanks

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3 hours ago, beefy66 said:

Hmm thought you said you were going to finish some builds first before starting this  Kettle Black and all that

 

Just saying  :whistle: but will still be watching over your shoulder to see what tips I can get for Cornwall :popcorn:

 

beefy

Nonne magnus pueris et aufugit  ;)

Rob

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Rob have you see this photo the darker forward strip that runs from turret a looks like it might be darker again than MS1

 

spacer.png

 

and compared to another hope this does not confuse but it might just be a light angle thing but it does stand out as being a darker shade again

 

spacer.png

 

beefy

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20 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I look forward to following this.  My KENT is sitting in the cupboard and is about 3rd or 4th in line so probably 12-15 months away.

 

If you don't mind me asking, because I haven't bought any aftermarket for it yet nor even done the research to find out what's out there, would you be so kind as to publish a list of those goodies you show in that 3rd photo?  

 

Thanks

Chewbacca - there's a thing to ask a Nerd!!! :nerd:

 

1) Eduard HMS Cornwall Update set.  White Ensign models have one that might well be more useful - I've been waiting for a WEM HMS Kent edition

2) Micromaster goodies:

     -  Royal Navy Large Mushroom vents

     -  Royal Navy Small Mushrrom vents

     -  Royal Navy  HACS MkIV GB with Tyoe 285 Radar x4 - (I'm not certain Cornwall had this - I can check if you like)

     -  Royal navy 10 x 5ft Carley Floats

     -  Royal Navy 16ft Sailing dinghes

     -  Royal Navy 27ft Whalers x 2

     -  Royal Navy 25ft Motor Cutters x2

     -  Royal Navy Quad Vickers 0.5in x 4

     -  Royal Navy 20mm Oerlikons (Cornwall probably did not have them)

     -  Royal Navy 8" MkVIIIMk1 turrets x 4 (Superb!!!!)

     -  Royal Navy 4" 45QF MkXVI twin mounts x 4 (Again superb)

3)  Infini resin anchor chain (From Sovereign Hobbies - hideously lovely and expensive)

4)  Unbranded metal barrels - Ebay  China

5)  Brass pedestals

6)  Flyhawk RN Ladders & Searchlights

7)  Mk1 Design Royal Navy Radar set

8/  Black Cat models :

      -  2Pdr MkVIII octuple Pom Pom

      -  Cable Reels

      -  Carley Floats 12x6ft

 

Personally I still need from Micromaster

      -  Royal Navy Searchlights

      -  Flotanets

      -  Royal Navy 32ft Cutters

      -  Royal Navy 42ft Motor launch

      -  Royal Navy Mk1 Depth charge rails (for 6)

 

There are 35 ft Motor boats done on Shapeways and Splintermats that are overly expensive and underly detailed that I hope Micromaster will "take back"

And for the moment that's pretty much it!  Though that's taken 5-6/12 to process 

When you see the quality and detail on the Micromaster offerings you'll be won over!!

HTH

Rob

 

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32 minutes ago, beefy66 said:

Rob have you see this photo the darker forward strip that runs from turret a looks like it might be darker again than MS1

 

spacer.png

 

and compared to another hope this does not confuse but it might just be a light angle thing but it does stand out as being a darker shade again

 

spacer.png

 

beefy

Thanks Beefy but that pic depicts Kent at a later date when the the camo divisions remained the same but the colours changed.  Jamie is right IMHO - The "black" remains MS1, some of the other divisions were lightened.

(I do love all this colour debate!!!  Makes me feel like an Armour modeller again :lol::whistle:)

Rob 

 

(Just having come back inside from the Matthews Famille "4 o'clock wine club meeting ;):lol:")

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Posted (edited)

Blimey,

 

You have a lot on the go Rob! Love the subject and looking forward to see what you do with her.

 

 

Guy

Edited by Gisbod

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1 minute ago, Gisbod said:

You have a lot on the go Rob! Love the subject and looking forward what you do with her.

See I,am not the only one that noticed    :whistle:

 

beefy

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robgizlu wrote "Royal Navy  HACS MkIV GB with Tyoe 285 Radar x4 - (I'm not certain Cornwall had this ..."  Cornwall was fitted with two HACS Mk I in her mid-1930s modernisation; I've seen no reference to her being fitted with any more modern system.  Similarly, I haven't seen anything saying she was ever fitted with AR RDF (radar) Type 285.  The well-known photo of the ship sinking appears to show a smooth top surface to the port HA.DCT (ie no RDF aerial), although that is surprising since she was under air attack, so the cover should have been open!

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4 hours ago, robgizlu said:

1) Eduard HMS cornwall Update set.  White Ensign models have one that might well be more useful - I've been waiting for a WEM HMS Kent edition

2) Micromaster goodies:

     -  Royal Navy Large Mushroom vents

     -  Royal Navy Small Mushrrom vents

     -  Royal Navy  HACS MkIV GB with Tyoe 285 Radar x4 - (I'm not certain Cornwall had this - I can check if you like)

     -  Royal navy 10 x 5ft Carley Floats

     -  Royal Navy 16ft Sailing dinghes

     -  Royal Navy 27ft Whlaers x 2

     -  Royal Navy 25ft Motor Cutters x2

     -  Royal Navy Quad Vickers 0.5in x 4

     -  Royal Navy 20mm Oerlikons (Cornwall probably did not have them)

     -  Royal Navy 8" MkVIIIMk1 turrets x 4 (Superb!!!!)

     -  Royal Navy 4" 45QF MkXVI twin mounts x 4 (Again superb)

3)  Infini resin anchor chain (From Sovereign Hobbies - hideously lovely and expensive)

4)  Unbranded metal barrels - Ebay  China

5)  Brass pedestals

6)  Flyhawk RN Ladders & Searchlights

7)  Mk1 Design Royal Navy Radar set

8/  Black Cat models :

      -  2Pdr MkVIII octuple Pom Pom

      -  Cable Reels

      -  Carley Floats 12x6ft

 

Personally I still need from Micromaster

      -  Royal Navy Searchlights

      -  Flotanets

      -  Royal Navy 32ft Cutters

      -  Royal Navy 42ft Motor launch

      -  Royal Navy Mk1 Depth charge rails (for 6)

 

So an out of the box build then  . . . . .:hmmm::shrug:

 

I'm in :popcorn:

 

Kev

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On 03/04/2020 at 17:59, robgizlu said:

Chewbacca - there's a thing to ask a Nerd!!! :nerd:

 

1) Eduard HMS Cornwall Update set.  White Ensign models have one that might well be more useful - I've been waiting for a WEM HMS Kent edition

2) Micromaster goodies:

     -  Royal Navy Large Mushroom vents

     -  Royal Navy Small Mushrrom vents

     -  Royal Navy  HACS MkIV GB with Tyoe 285 Radar x4 - (I'm not certain Cornwall had this - I can check if you like)

     -  Royal navy 10 x 5ft Carley Floats

     -  Royal Navy 16ft Sailing dinghes

     -  Royal Navy 27ft Whalers x 2

     -  Royal Navy 25ft Motor Cutters x2

     -  Royal Navy Quad Vickers 0.5in x 4

     -  Royal Navy 20mm Oerlikons (Cornwall probably did not have them)

     -  Royal Navy 8" MkVIIIMk1 turrets x 4 (Superb!!!!)

     -  Royal Navy 4" 45QF MkXVI twin mounts x 4 (Again superb)

3)  Infini resin anchor chain (From Sovereign Hobbies - hideously lovely and expensive)

4)  Unbranded metal barrels - Ebay  China

5)  Brass pedestals

6)  Flyhawk RN Ladders & Searchlights

7)  Mk1 Design Royal Navy Radar set

8/  Black Cat models :

      -  2Pdr MkVIII octuple Pom Pom

      -  Cable Reels

      -  Carley Floats 12x6ft

 

Personally I still need from Micromaster

      -  Royal Navy Searchlights

      -  Flotanets

      -  Royal Navy 32ft Cutters

      -  Royal Navy 42ft Motor launch

      -  Royal Navy Mk1 Depth charge rails (for 6)

 

There are 35 ft Motor boats done on Shapeways and Splintermats that are overly expensive and underly detailed that I hope Micromaster will "take back"

And for the moment that's pretty much it!  Though that's taken 5-6/12 to process 

When you see the quality and detail on the Micromaster offerings you'll be won over!!

HTH

Rob

 

Thanks Rob, that's incredibly helpful.  I've never used Micromaster resin offerings before so look forward to giving them a try

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Are you going to dare to tell us the total cost of that little lot Rob!

 

Some lovely goodies.

 

Guy

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Posted (edited)

Rob,

 

As Jamie has hinted, I have had other distractions over the past week, so sorry to be slow responding. Whilst agreeing that we have MS1 at one end of the scale and probably 507C at the other, my immediate reactions are:

 

a. I would not base anything on those pretty drawings of Kent on the WW2 Cruisers site. (China Station colours wrong; the commentary about the scheme when torpedoed wrong; photos show Kent was in fact in the new scheme in November 1942; and in the final image B30 is shown as an olive green whereas it was in fact a blue-grey.)

 

b. Whilst I agree with Jamie that the tonal scale MS1, MS2, B5, 507C does "hang together" and is certainly a possibility, I have a niggling doubt. Overall a palette consisting mainly of MS1, MS2, B5 with the small amount of 507C would result in something with a very dark general appearance. (MS2 was slightly darker than Home Fleet grey (507A)). I am finding it hard to reconcile such a theoretical overall general darkness with what we see in the various photos.  

 

I will do some digging in the copies of the various files I have to see if I can find anything concrete.

 

Best wishes,

 

Richard 

Edited by dickrd

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Posted (edited)
On 4/3/2020 at 10:38 PM, longshanks said:

 

So an out of the box build then  . . . . .:hmmm::shrug:

 

I'm in :popcorn:

 

Kev

Course it is.  Just more than one box.

 

Definitely looking forward to seeing this one come together.

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU

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Posted (edited)

I can find just one reference to just one colour on Kent.....

 

HMS Kent was Leamington Job 71. The request was made by the Admiralty on 16th August 1941 for “a design similar to that supplied for HMS Cumberland” (Job 62) and required by 1st September.  This must have been provided even faster as on 25th August the Admiralty tells Leamington as follows:

 

Kent

 

I suspect that overall we have a palette MS1, B5, MS4, 507C on Kent late 1941 - early 1942. We have found this to be a fairly common palette on large ships (battleships and cruisers) then.

 

("Blue", in the context of a 1942 report on B5, is mentioned as being on Cumberland.)

Edited by dickrd

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On 4/5/2020 at 5:55 PM, dickrd said:

I can find just one reference to just one colour on Kent.....

 

I suspect that overall we have a palette MS1, B5, MS4, 507C on Kent late 1941 - early 1942. We have found this to be a fairly common palette on large ships (battleships and cruisers) then.

 

Dear Richard,

 

Thank you for this. I hope things are going ok...

 

Based on the above, I have partially coloured in a partially drawn sketch of HMS Kent. Enough of it is there to get the gist of things, and I shall finish it when time permits.  This is all I could manage today amongst other duties.

 

Here is HMS Kent as drawn in by Eric Leon (Raven's differs in detail on the stacks mainly) - MS2 on the extreme port bow, 507C aft of that, MS1 aft of that and B5 aft of that.

ecb568d9-b654-4ee6-b41e-4eb1518c3717.png

 

That correspondence to Y-B states that MS4A on the port bow was substituted for MS4, so, which patch was it?

 

1) If we take the wording in its more literal sense, we can change out the MS2 panels for MS4. This looks quite nice, but I think tonally we have an issue with the MS4 being significantly lighter than B5, yet the photos appear to be the other way around.

522234ee-2144-40b6-b9ab-08c166d36e82.png

 

2) If we maintain the colour palette MS1, B5, MS4 and 507C we have another option which keeps the tonal progression from dark to light correct. It doesn't feel right to me.

ce766127-d098-4631-bc39-8a00b2c85be1.png

 

3) If upon reappraising the photographs above we feel that the appearance of HMS Kent is rather drab, then we are left with the possibility that 507C isn't actually there, and those areas are what was painted MS4 on the port bow. I have reverted the extreme bow and stern back to MS2 in order to be darker than B5. What do we think of a wholly MS&B paint scheme?

53e3e766-2696-444f-8615-cbe19d3e9a07.png

 

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2 hours ago, dickrd said:

I can find just one reference to just one colour on Kent.....

 

HMS Kent was Leamington Job 71. The request was made by the Admiralty on 16th August 1941 for “a design similar to that supplied for HMS Cumberland” (Job 62) and required by 1st September.  This must have been provided even faster as on 25th August the Admiralty tells Leamington as follows:

 

Kent

 

I suspect that overall we have a palette MS1, B5, MS4, 507C on Kent late 1941 - early 1942. We have found this to be a fairly common palette on large ships (battleships and cruisers) then.

 

("Blue", in the context of a 1942 report on B5, is mentioned as being on Cumberland.)

Wow - That is pretty compelling Richard.  However I din't see MS4 coming!!

Comparing shades on the tins between MS4 and 507C I'm struggling to reconcile that with the contrast between colours on the original pics, where the other colour demarcations seem tonally congruent (if that makes sense)

I've gone back to the HMS Ithuriel pic which is good quality (showing Port bow) and we are pretty certain is MS3 (With 507A and MS4) and that still seems "light" compared to the actual wartime photographs.

Rob

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