Supermarine S.5 (N 220) AMP - 1/48

[Andrew.S]

My first pre-quarantine build is 1927 Schneider Throphy winner the N 220 S.5 flown by Flt. Lt. Webster, A.F.C. produced by Ukrainian AMP. I bought this kit right after its release on Ebay and started building it immediatelly. This kit is very challenging. Put simply, it has loads of extra plastic seals and burrs as any othter ordinary short run kit has...
I admire R. J. Mitchell's lifework of aircraft constructions and this one just fits in the line leading directly to the Spitfire. (I hope the Ukrainians will continue with other types such as S.4 and S.6...)

Here is just a small peek at the machine:

_{https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/supermarine-s-5/}

 

 

 

 

So the internet search was held for the purpose of gaining valuable study material. Then I started with the wings, which needed loads of grinding to achieve the smoothenes and the sharp trailing edges. I also removed the upper positive ribs and replaced them with a simple dual line of rivets (as seen on the original). I took care of the elevators too. Then I started working on the floats.

But at that moment the progress stopped until now.

 

My friend #Dusan R has just started his own S.5 from AMP and he found out a few mistakes this kit contains. For instance the float's width is smaller in comparison with the drawing and also with the photos. The starboard float struts should be longer than the port ones and there are some other issues with the engine cowling (which will be presented during the build).

 

 

 

That will be all for now with the S.5, thanks for reading and have a good model building time during the lockdown.
Cheers!

 

Andrew

[Shorty84]

Hi Andrew,

 

great to see an build of an S.5. The Schneider racers have some pleasant lines, don't they? Never knew about the assymetric float configuration, what's the reason for it?

You've made a nice start already and it will be interesting to see your verdict on the kit.

 

Cheers

Markus

[Bangor Lad]

A classic form from the Golden Age. Looking forward to seeing this build 

[bentwaters81tfw]

8 hours ago, Shorty84 said:

Hi Andrew,

 

great to see an build of an S.5. The Schneider racers have some pleasant lines, don't they? Never knew about the assymetric float configuration, what's the reason for it?

You've made a nice start already and it will be interesting to see your verdict on the kit.

 

Cheers

Markus

It compensates for engine torque when on the water. The S6B compensated by having a longer float on one side, which also held the fuel.

[Hewy]

I look forward to this andrew ,a kit thats definitely on my to get list

[shortCummins]

I've just received a copy of this kit so I'll be following your build with interest

 

rgds

John(shortCummins)

[corsaircorp]

Really good work !

Correcting these floats will not be an easy task for sure !!

I use to say that Lockdown is not a problem for modellers…

After all we are experts in lockdown… Except at the time of SMW...

I have the old Tesrors kit.

I did'nt pais a look at the floats…

Now I will…

CC 

[DMC]

Best looking of the Supermarine racers....IMHO.

 

Dennis

[bentwaters81tfw]

1 hour ago, corsaircorp said:

Really good work !

Correcting these floats will not be an easy task for sure !!

I use to say that Lockdown is not a problem for modellers…

After all we are experts in lockdown… Except at the time of SMW...

I have the old Testors kit.

I didn't pais a look at the floats…

Now I will…

CC 

I have the Testors kit too. It is of the S6, with floats of equal sizes. The S6B had unequal floats, which were longer. The overall lengths were 29 feet for the 'B' against 26 feet.

[Courageous]

Excellent subject...watching.

 

Stuart

[Planebuilder62]

Dear Andrew

I built a Matchbox Norseman recently that also had floats that were too narrow. I built out the width with thick plastic card on each side and then lots of filler. This kept the sharp ridge on the underside, front to back, and also kept a sharp edge along the length of the float edges. That worked ok as the float sides were flat.

 

For the S5 I suggest glueing longitidinal thick strips along the floats and fill the gap with filler. Trying to wrap layers of plastic card over the floats will I feel be very troublesome.

 

I have one of these on order in 1/72 so I’m following this with interest.

 

BTW what shade of blue and silver will you be using?

 

regards Toby

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

I have the Testors kit too. It is of the S6, with floats of equal sizes. The S6B had unequal floats, which were longer. The overall lengths were 29 feet for the 'B' against 26 feet.

The S6's started out with equal floats of 19'4" August 1929, overall length 26'9"

They were later fitted with longer stbd floats of 20'4" September 1929, overall length 27'9"

After refurbishment to S6A's they had new larger floats of equal 22' length, overall length 28'5"

Both S6B's were fitted with even larger floats of equal 24' length, overall length 28'10"

[Planebuilder62]

Adding strips to the sides of the floats also provides an easy way of making one float longer than the other.

 

regards Toby

[Dave Swindell]

2 minutes ago, Planebuilder62 said:

Adding strips to the sides of the floats also provides an easy way of making one float longer than the other.

This had no effect on the length of the float. The strips were added outside the float chine, extending below the chine level. The primary function of these was to cut down spray from the floats to reduce impingement on the propeller and the subsequent damage to same.

[Dave Swindell]

7 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

The S6B compensated by having a longer float on one side, which also held the fuel.

Not true, see above. Both floats held fuel tanks. Testing was made with assymetric fuel loads, with more in the stbd float to counteract the immersion of the port float due to torque. As the S6's had extended stbd floats, I'd assume this was to retain adequate reserve buoyancy on the stbd side when carrying the assymetric fuel load.

[bentwaters81tfw]

23 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Not true, see above. Both floats held fuel tanks. Testing was made with assymetric fuel loads, with more in the stbd float to counteract the immersion of the port float due to torque. As the S6's had extended stbd floats, I'd assume this was to retain adequate reserve buoyancy on the stbd side when carrying the assymetric fuel load.

I knew someone would come along with all the details.

[Quiet Mike]

Watching with much interest! I also have this kit and glad someone has started a build thred before me 😉

 

We're very lucky to have N248 (an S6A) just a couple of miles away as well.

Supermarine S6A, N248 by Mike, on Flickr

 

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Shaping like a very interesting build!

Good work

[hopkp]

I'll definitely be following this, having recently acquired the AMP kit.

 

In particular I'm looking forward to seeing how you tackle the cockpit, as far as I can see AMP hasn't given the pilot anything to sit on, just a backrest. I've tried to find cockpit pics. online, but haven't had much look so far, the only ones I can find just show the instrument panel.

[Dstream]

Beautiful subject, in your hands this will be a head turner.

 

Just one observation though. The drawing shows non-symmetric floats arrangement, but in the picture below it, it seems to be symmetric.

[Andrew.S]

Thank you all for your support, I am nicely surprised how this thred gained the information stream! Thanks again, I hope some of you will find my build useful, but I have to say that it will have not the same build speed as my other builds, due to the quality of the kit and my laziness

 

1 hour ago, Dstream said:

Beautiful subject, in your hands this will be a head turner.

 

Just one observation though. The drawing shows non-symmetric floats arrangement, but in the picture below it, it seems to be symmetric.

Yes, you are right, asymetric was just the N 219 as far as I know.

2 hours ago, hopkp said:

I'll definitely be following this, having recently acquired the AMP kit.

 

In particular I'm looking forward to seeing how you tackle the cockpit, as far as I can see AMP hasn't given the pilot anything to sit on, just a backrest. I've tried to find cockpit pics. online, but haven't had much look so far, the only ones I can find just show the instrument panel.

I would like to pay more attention on the details in the cockpit, some hints are in the drawing above, but I think there was some build of resin S.5 1/32 on some forum, but I just can't find it now... If someone knew which build I mean, please remind me. There was step by step guide of the build with really brilliant result. But I think internet just damned it forever.

2 hours ago, Moa said:

Shaping like a very interesting build!

Good work

Thanks Moa, good luck with yours, they are exciting!

3 hours ago, Quiet Mike said:

Watching with much interest! I also have this kit and glad someone has started a build thred before me 😉

 

We're very lucky to have N248 (an S6A) just a couple of miles away as well.

 

 

Yees, I have been in the London museum, where the other S.6 is located, and it was a really nice view!

3 hours ago, Planebuilder62 said:

Adding strips to the sides of the floats also provides an easy way of making one float longer than the other.

 

regards Toby

Yes, I will add those, but I think that floats widening is slowly becoming out of the question (I just want this done :D)
I will take a good care of the floats with the details, but the wrong width will be unfortunalety unchanged. For the greater good.

4 hours ago, Planebuilder62 said:

Dear Andrew

I built a Matchbox Norseman recently that also had floats that were too narrow. I built out the width with thick plastic card on each side and then lots of filler. This kept the sharp ridge on the underside, front to back, and also kept a sharp edge along the length of the float edges. That worked ok as the float sides were flat.

 

For the S5 I suggest glueing longitidinal thick strips along the floats and fill the gap with filler. Trying to wrap layers of plastic card over the floats will I feel be very troublesome.

 

I have one of these on order in 1/72 so I’m following this with interest.

 

BTW what shade of blue and silver will you be using?

 

regards Toby

Thanks Toby!
as I wrote above, I am worried that the widening the floats will be hard, when they are glued together now... That was a fault of the fast building and not much thinking about that. Which seems to be fitting to me in these days. But your idea is worth thinking through, maybe I will give it a try

Good luck with your small one, I am not going to buy it therefore it's too small in 1/48

I haven't decided the colour yet, but the blue will be the ordinary Tamiya Acrylic blue (I can't remember the number) and the silver will be maybe the GS C8 Silver, or the Alclad Aluminium. Or something completely different.

6 hours ago, DMC said:

Best looking of the Supermarine racers....IMHO.

 

Dennis

I prefer the S.4, but I think but there is a tiny nuance between their features

 

 

 

Wow, that's  a lot of quotes, sorry for that! (but I am very happy for your interest!)

Edited April 1, 2020 by Andrew.S
grammar

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Dstream said:

Just one observation though. The drawing shows non-symmetric floats arrangement, but in the picture below it, it seems to be symmetric.

Although the floats were assymetric about the centreline, it wasn't by much - The stbd float was 6" further out than the port one, which in 1:48 is 3.2mm.

 

[Fastcat]

Hi Andrew,

                           I think the 1/32 build is probably this one :  Linky

Marsh did the S.4, S.5 and S.6 in 1/32 resin. Haven't been through the whole build but I think he struggled for info on the cockpit.

Anyway some of the links may be useful.

Good luck with the build.

 

Dave

[Andrew.S]

Yes! That's it! Thank you.
 

[Lightpainter]

I bought this kit too... I am not surprised that there are issues, I have only barely recovered from building their Piaggio-Pegna Pc.7. Many issues and 1/50 scale instead of 1/48 scale.

So I will follow this with intrest!