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P-40K/KittyHawk III in alternative Colors ?


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          Hello everyone... I know I really do tend to ask a lot of questions, sometimes in bursts sometimes randomly. I’m just trying to find as many schemes possible now that I have 3 kits of the P-40K/Kittyhawk III to build. I was just curious if there is any photographic evidence of the P-40K/KittyHawk III in the late war VVS Colors of AMT 7/11/12. I have found this photo of a modified “E” with a 2nd seat and “K” style tail fillet. 

 

https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lendlease/p-40/tapani/p-40k-m-n/34twoseater.htm
 

       Honestly Id be happy to see any photo’s of them in the earlier green black colors of AMT 4 & 6. I know they were delivered in lend-lease colors and schemes. But they must’ve gone through repairs/re-paints at some point ? Maybe @Massimo Tessitori or @Learstang might have more info ?
      I know this is an off shoot of the main question ? But did any KittyHawk III’s the short tailed version with the tail fillet, make it to Australia or New Zealand in the Pacific, I haven't seen any yet ? Maybe Alan @LDSModeller might know ? Ive seen RAAF & RNZAF KH III use in North Africa and maybe possibly Italy ?  Any help or info is gratefully received and acknowledged in advance ? 
 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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Dennis, I personally have not seen any photographs of Soviet P-40s in the black/green paint scheme. I believe that 'P-40EF' was repainted to the two-grey scheme because so much work was done on the conversion to a two-seater, and so much needed to be repainted anyway, that the Soviets just went ahead and repainted the entire aircraft. However, I have definitely not seen every photograph of Soviet P-40s so it is possible that some could have been painted in the early GPW scheme of black/green over blue. That would certainly make a great-looking model, in my opinion.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

     I know this is an off shoot of the main question ? But did any KittyHawk III’s the short tailed version with the tail fillet, make it to Australia or New Zealand in the Pacific, I haven't seen any yet

Hi Dennis,

 

The RNZAF received only a few ( 2-5?) of the Short tail K's and those

afaik  were taken over from USAAF units in the Pacific.

NZ3108 was one such airframe taken over from the 68th PG at Tongatapu, Tonga

October 1942.

Colourwise, I really can't say much, other than it may have been

wearing TLS (Temperate Land Scheme) along with the P40E-1's also

taken over by RNZAF 15 (F) Squadron. )TLS - Dark Earth/Dark Green/Sky (Duck Egg Blue).

An important thing to note, is that these aircraft for the first 6 months wore US Stars,

with an RNZAF Serial Numbers, before changing to RNZAF 14 (F) Squadron taking on

RNZAF Roundels.

 

Regards

 

Alan

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Hello Corsairfourfoxuncle

Would you settle for what appears to be winter distemper paint over the existing camouflage? Here are two photos of 196 IAP P-40 K on Leningrad front during 1943 winter, found here:

p40k_26.jpg

 

p40k-1943.jpg

The pilot on the photos is Aleksey Stefanovich Parfenov with five aerial victories to his credit.

There is another photo of 196 IAP pilots on front of P-40 here which, given the same position of rudder, trimmer and propeller blades as on the two photos above, had been probably taken during the same photo season:

 

368587-main.jpg?617325576

 

As expected, there are no red stars on upper surfaces. If there is no AM decals available, one can easily draw and print them at home. Cheers

Jure

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6 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Would you settle for what appears to be winter distemper paint over the existing camouflage? Here are two photos of 196 IAP P-40 K on Leningrad front during 1943 winter

Thank you Jure, this definitely is on my to do list. I’ve always wanted/needed a VVS P-40 in both summer and winter camouflage. would this be the silver distemper I've read about ? It doesn't seem to be white, seems a bit more grey than I’d think for white ? 

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Yes, it does look a bit grey to me, too. Still, I am leaning towards a MT-7 distemper, which came into use during 1942-43 winter and was of off-white/very light gray colour anyway. Also, original paint showing through distemper and weathering should probably be taken into account. Cheers

Jure

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Gents

 

Just something to be aware off the Russians received 112 Short tailed K models (Both K-1 and K-5 models), yet received 342 E-1's with a Fin Fillet. I won't say the 2 Seat conversion shown isn't a K model, but alot of the two seat conversions were either E or E-1 aircraft (Plus calling a K-1/K-5 an EF after conversion would be unusual). The aircraft would have been delivered in TLS, and were mostly flown in that finish (quite a number of wrecks from around this period show TLS finish), until winter set in, were various forms of winter Camouflage was known to have been worn. After winter I have no idea what finish they would be in, would love to see more K/M and N model photos for Post Winter 1943 and 1944 (only ones I've seen are finished in the delivery schemes with some additional marking such as white rudders etc)

 

The RNZAF aircraft - I've only ever found 2, one crashed before receiving a RNZAF serial, the other became NZ3108 as stated above, none went to the RAAF

 

Buz

Edited by Buz
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16 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

would this be the silver distemper I've read about ?

It's not distemper, that was the white paint,  which wore badly, but AFAIK, Silver, as in aluminium paint.

 

Aluminium paint photographs in a distinctive way,  in that it has a soft shine, as a way to describe it.

look at the rear vertical canopy frame, and the base of the prop blades (overspray)

p40k_26.jpg&key=b90be6f2388107cc1dcad160

 

Winter camo was only used in the winters of 41/42 and 42/43 as well.  

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/winter/winter.html

 

one recent discovery

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la5/la5/piercedheart/piercedheart..html

 

piercedheart.jpg

note the shine of the aluminium finish

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235029145-russian-p-400-color-scheme-question/

 

photo-alum-vmf.jpg&key=696fd9ef9d947f8e0

 

 

spacer.png

 

 

White paint, as opposed to distempter,  was used as well

Quote

Besides MK-7 and similar washable paints, it looks that nitro white paint was occasionally utilized.

The finish of the first plane is clearly not MK-7 or similar distempers: it is uniform and glossy.

The second plane has clearly a nose painted with silver.

Nitro paint could have been chosen for a parade plane, or to avoid the loss of speed, or for the lack of MK-7.

mig3vnukovo.jpg

 

the Authentic Decals sheet P-40 in the Russian Sky has red 26/Z Rodinu as an option

22501_1_atd-48-60_1.jpg

 

 

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Hello

Thank you for your observation, Buz. I was aware of E-1s also being modified with fillets, but I have no idea that the type was also sent to Soviet Union. So, what were the external differences between enlarged fin Es and Ks? For a while I thought that one was lack of external rear view mirror on the Es, but than I found photos of the former with a mirror on the top of the windscreen and photos of the latter without it. I am asking because I have the old Revell (repacked Vista) P-40 K kit on the bench.

Troy, I am not ruling out aluminium as a colour of the Red 26. Probably old news to you but, due to various factors, the same photo may look very different. For example, the same photo of MiG-3 fighters as above, found here:

03795.jpg

 

And it is not only internet where such wide variations of the same thing could be found. I have a book in which a beautiful full page version of the above photo is printed, which leaves no doubt that most of MiG fighters in the line had had partial or complete white repaint on upper surfaces. Yet in the other book the same photo looks like the one above. So, at least to my eye, the colour of the P-40 K from my previous post looks closer to thin layer of MK-7 distemper than to aluminium repaint. Cheers

Jure

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I am with Troy here, I think that's silver lacquer indeed not white, it was used as winter camo in the SU rather often.

That's why the brightness changes so much over the different angles, that's a typical effect of silver paint.

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9 hours ago, Buz said:

The RNZAF aircraft - I've only ever found 2, one crashed before receiving a RNZAF serial, the other became NZ3108 as stated above, none went to the RAAF

 

 

I think you have confused the Short Tail P 40K  no serial and crash, with one of three P 40E-1's that were

destroyed  before receiving an RNZAF serial 

Serial 25100/ BuerNo. 41-25100 (RAF serial ET 424)

          25103/ BuerNo. 41-25103 (RAF serial ET 427}

          25137/ BuerNo. 41-25137 (RAF serial ET 461)

 

P40K-1 Serial 45958/ BuerNo. 42-45598 - ended up being a condemned airframe - quite possibly a hangar queen

for either USAAF or RNZAF?

 

NZ3108 did crash on take off 23 June 1943, and SOC (written off)

 

There were around 7 different P 40's that never received RNZAF serials (i.e.NZ30/31**)

 

Regards

 

Alan

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Hi Alan

 

Always interesting to discuss aircraft and fates. I was tracking 41-25100, 25103, 25137, as well as 42-45958 however didn't have the later as a hangar queen but had her parted out after a Take off accident in Jan 1943 when the engine failed (Pilot was one of the FLT Cmdr's - If you PM me I'll pass some details of what I have), later condemned on US records 16 Oct 1943 (an administrative write off date, I have quite a few aircraft written off on the same day throughout the Pacific Area, including Hawaii).

 

Buz

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