Marklo Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) Conceived as an anti Zeppelin The PB 31E was designed to carry a crew of 5 with two Lewis guns and a fixed 1 1/2 pounder gun, it was intended to be able to patrol for up to 18 hours and wait for passing airships. The PB is for Pemberton Billing the designer who sold his interests in the company to the other directors who promptly changed the name to Supermarine. So this is the first design by the company responsible for the Spitfire. The name Supermarine came from a wonderful piece of logic; if a ship that was under the water was a submarine then a plane that was on top of the water would be Supermarine hence the name . Thankfully Supermarine eventually found some good designers and the rest is as they say history. Givrn my rather large Wip (about 9 builds) this may be a slow burner and I’m still not sure if it may be at (or past) my modelling skills. But I think it’s a wonderfully wacky airplane so will press on. Edited November 11, 2020 by Marklo 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Well, at least it's a slab sider but oh dear, struts and rigging! If you're resolved to start it I'm sure we can all resolve to watch... Regards, Adrian 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltcarBoB Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Looks like it would struggle to catch itself never mind a Zeppelin 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AltcarBoB said: Looks like it would struggle to catch itself never mind a Zeppelin Apparently it maxed out at 60mph and took 60 minutes to get to 10,000 feet. They also forgot that while zeppelins moved fairly slowly they could climb way faster by dropping ballast or drop down by venting gas. So yes there are many reasons why we didn’t see squadrons of PB31Es but it does have a number of advanced features, enclosed cockpit, engine nacelles etc. Now my single biggest issue (apart from all the struts) is getting two Anzani 10 cylinders in 1/48, I hate making radial engines and was hoping there would be an aftermarket set (copperstate do one in 1/32) but no joy in 1/48. At this point I’m thinking if I make a half cylinder and then use sculpey/milliput to mold the 40 halves I will need. I could go for resin but tbh given my overall health I probably don’t want to start messing about with more solvents especially carcinogenic ones. My other thought was that seeing how LeRhone/Clerget/Siemens’s halsk engines were all just copies/Licensed built that maybe there was another more mainstream engine that was like the Anzani but I’m not having much success there either. Suggestions welcome. Edited March 27, 2020 by Marklo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Mike Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 The Night Hawk! You're a braver man than me! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 45 minutes ago, Quiet Mike said: The Night Hawk! You're a braver man than me! Brave/ foolhardy only time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Seems you have got soft spot for quadruplanes more recently. Watching with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty84 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Man, that design is really bonkers. 18hs endurance? I hope they intended to have a toilet on board (although I dare to think how they got rid of the "waste"). Hope they didn't intend patrolling over larger cities for a longer period Regarding the engines, are two resin Le Rhone 9J not an option? They look reasonably similar to the Anzani. Cheers Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonners Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I suppose this proves the old saying “If it looks right, it will fly right”! I’ve seen photos previously and thought that the designer must have tolerant management. Perhaps the crew could cultivate a few tomato plants to while away all that patrol time? This is very ambitious! It will be very interesting to see how you go about getting four wings and the forest if struts to line up and stay rigid. Go for it. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 15 hours ago, Patrik said: Seems you have got soft spot for quadruplanes more recently. Yes I’m even considering an FK 10 11 hours ago, Shorty84 said: Man, that design is really bonkers. 18hs endurance? I hope they intended to have a toilet on board No mention of a wc but apparently there was a bed for a second pilot. 11 hours ago, Shorty84 said: Regarding the engines, are two resin Le Rhone 9J not an option? They look reasonably similar to the Anzani. The Anzani was a ten cylinder rotary I’d always know I was a cylinder short:) 3 hours ago, Jonners said: I suppose this proves the old saying “If it looks right, it will fly right” Yes and this looks so wrong ( which is why I like it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jonners said: This is very ambitious! It will be very interesting to see how you go about getting four wings and the forest if struts to line up and stay rigid. I’m thinking hollow struts with a single 1mm brass rod going through the middle of each set, maybe molded shells. Or maybe flattened brass tube. Hmm may try the same approach on the Wight. Edited March 28, 2020 by Marklo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Start of the fuselage. As the fuselage isn’t a simple as it looks . With curved sides and curved upper and lower decks. I’ll make a wooden firm and use it to assemble the fuselage around. Next step will be to stick plan and elevations of the fuselage on and trim the block with my jigsaw. Edited March 28, 2020 by Marklo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riksbar Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Quote Looks like it would struggle to catch itself never mind a Zeppelin I don’t know about catching a Zeppelin, it looks better suited to catch a pigeon! Watching with interest👍🏾 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, Riksbar said: I don’t know about catching a Zeppelin, it looks better suited to catch a pigeon! Frankly I’m not even sure it could catch a cold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Hi, according to my copy of War Planes of the First World War, Fighters Vol 3, the Anzanis were radials, not rotaries, so there might be more choices available for you to use. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) It’s the 10 cylinders that’s unusual there just doesn’t seem to be another single bank 10 cylinder out there. I have scratch built a leRhone 9 cylinder before so two Anzani’s aren’t beyond the bounds of reality. I just won’t enjoy making them that much. Strange I hate making wheels and engines but I like rigging and making propellors. Just me I guess My leRhone benefitted largely from the fact the cowl covers it up Will need more detail for the Anzanis as they will be bare accept for the exhaust manifold. The cylinders are spruce wound with fine wire which I found tenuous in the extreme. Might be more entertaining to make one good cylinder then mold the rest off it. Edited March 28, 2020 by Marklo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I was always told that you couldn't have a 10 cylinder radial or presumably rotary because directly opposed cylinders would lock. So presumably these were not symmetrical about some nominal line? But in that case what about vibration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Teuchter said: Hi, according to my copy of War Planes of the First World War, Fighters Vol 3, the Anzanis were radials, not rotaries, so there might be more choices available for you to use. That’s my main reference too. It also says 9 cylinder but there is no nine cylinder Anzani also if you look closely at the photos there are ten cylinders. Not the end of the world, will eventually figure out a solution. Just looking at the Anzani engine web page and noticed that the cylinders are staggered, making the engine even more unlike other engines. looks like you’re right Graham and the engine is effectively two 5 cylinder stages. Edited March 28, 2020 by Marklo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matti64 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 I'm not sure, as I can't think where I read it butI think I've heard of a single row Canton Une radial with an even number of cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 Actually now that you mention it I can’t think of a single one. Mainstream radials are 9, ABC did 3 cylinders. Siemens Halsey were 11. But having researched a little bit more it looks as if the Anzani is 2 x 5 rather than a flat 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 Time for some serious power tools. Well by black and decker. Next post If I survive the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) Not at the bench much today. This has been my weapon of choice. Power washing my sleepers preparetry To repainting them. Basically if it didn’t move it got power washed if it moved it got power washed till it didn’t then it got power washed. Since I was outdoors I also sawed my fuselage form. Edited March 30, 2020 by Marklo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malpaso Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 There’s a photo of a 10 cylinder Anzani in the Wikipedia entry. It looks like the twin rows are only slightly offset, especially compared to later twin row radials. I guess the number and Anzani displacement was small enough to allow cylinders between each other. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anzani_10_nmaf.jpg#mw-jump-to-license According to the write up it was used on some Caudron types so maybe there’s a model version available somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, malpaso said: used on some Caudron types so maybe there’s a model version available somewhere? So far I’ve only been able to find a 1/32 one. I’ll scratch a pair if I have to I just need to come up with an easier method of making the cylinders than winding wire around spruce. Edited March 30, 2020 by Marklo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Started and abandoned in March I’m going to actively pursue this one ( no pun intended) as part of the interceptor GB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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