Troy Smith Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Luka said: the wheel cover looks pretty dark even in the full sun, and it has an even darker patch near the lower front. In fact, the tones look very similar to the uppersurface camo, Could this maybe be some field-applied wraparound camouflage? I've never seen this on a Hurricane before. apparent tone could just be exposure and film stock. this looks very similar. the lower edge patch is oil I've mentioned this many times, and when you see this, it all becomes obvious, merlins leak a lot of oil, it is blown back by airflow, and then goes over the doors, the stain is starting here once you know what it is, then you see it all the time. HTH 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 16 hours ago, Ed Russell said: 3. The wind howled through the openings, threatening to wash me from the canvas sling that I sat on. There was nowhere to put my feet which flapped in the gale. No rear seat then. I wonder what the "sling" looked like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 26 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: apparent tone could just be exposure and film stock. this looks very similar. Thanks for posting that, more sources that indicate the same anomaly are always handy. It seems that there's often a difference in appearance between wartime photos from certain countries; there would surely not be a global distribution of a same standard film at that time. 26 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: once you know what it is, then you see it all the time. Yep, I started to notice after Graham just pointed it out. After many modeling years, I learn something new every day about stuff that I took for granted and/or simply never wondered about. As for weird colour shades on photos; the film used here had a tendency to show certain shades of yellow much darker than in real life. Black and white photography making life yet another bit harder for future modelers since the 1940s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Orso said: No rear seat then. I wonder what the "sling" looked like In Soviet Russia you don't sit in a plane, there is just a plane around you.. 🙃 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Orso said: No rear seat then. I wonder what the "sling" looked like Maybe like an Il-2 one? Step 7 in the Tamiya instructions https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/6/7/6/143676-22-instructions.pdf Perhaps someone could look at the one in Belgrade for a better picture. There is a walkaround but not that bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Ed Russell said: Perhaps someone could look at the one in Belgrade for a better picture. There is a walkaround but not that bit. I found two pics of the gunner's position of the Belgrade Il2. There are some red things visible one of which may have been an attachment point, but apparently the sling itself is not installed; http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Ilyushin/Il-2/Walkround/Serbia/18%20Gunner%20Cockpit%20Port.jpg http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Ilyushin/Il-2/Walkround/Serbia/19%20Gunner%20Cockpit%20Port1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 One pic of the Il-2 gunner's sling, not very sharp though. From one of the only two flying Il-2's (with the blue spinner, late version I believe); http://www.modelarovo.cz/wp-content/gallery/11102018sturmovik/sturmovik016.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Okay, how's this - from "Il-2 Type 3 and Il-10/B-33 In Detail" by Frantisek Koran and Michal Ovcacik, here (in the top left corner, where it says, "Gunner's cockpit details") is a very good drawing showing the gunner's sling seat in the Il-2 type 3 (or whatever you want to call it - the strap is what's of interest, not debates about official nomenclature): John Edited March 28, 2020 by John Thompson 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Hi, I made a small page on this subject a lot of years ago. http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lendlease/hurricane/hurricane2seat/plator/2seat in service/2seathurricane.htm It doesn't add much, but in my opinion the white plane on the background of the photo is another two-seater trainer hurricane, it shows the same shape of the back of the first one. Regards Massimo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 With the big hole in the floor it must have some safety belts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, Orso said: With the big hole in the floor it must have some safety belts as well. Why would you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoZG Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 3/27/2020 at 2:23 PM, Troy Smith said: HTH Hi Troy, what is this under this Hurricane's wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 hours ago, MarkoZG said: Hi Troy, what is this under this Hurricane's wing? Small bomb carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Ed Russell said: Why would you think that? The post where the observer said that he sat with hes feet flapping in the wind as there was no floor. Wouldn't it be hard to to avoid falling out when the plane manoeuvred? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Orso said: The post where the observer said that he sat with hes feet flapping in the wind as there was no floor. Wouldn't it be hard to to avoid falling out when the plane manoeuvred? Common sense dictates there should have been some form of restraint but the cavalier Russian approach to the value of human life says why would you bother. I have re-read my thumbnail dipped in tar notes and I see a scrawled note of "harness". Without having the original to hand I can't do better than speculate that there might have been a restraint between the observers "harness" and the airframe. The Swordfish and its ilk used some thing similar. May I re-iterate this is speculation based on one word translated on the fly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Yes. Even if they didn't care about the life of the observer they probably would be interested in the observations he would make. The observation Hurricane would be something different to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 3/27/2020 at 2:57 PM, Orso said: No rear seat then. I wonder what the "sling" looked like A Russian friend of mine has ridden in the back seat of an IL-2. His words: "I want to tell you that it is very (VERY) noisy, and in horizontal flight the exhaust gases falls heavily into the partly open gunner cockpit. Yes, the main problem is not even noise - I constantly felt this smell of burning from the exhaust, I don't know how WW2 crews flew for a long time, but then there was a war and no one thought about it...in any case, they had no choice. Back cockpit is very cramped there and I’m very uncomfortable with my height of 180 cm, because there is also a radio station (the tail gunner was also a radio operator on this plane" He also said the sling seat was uncomfortable. Here's one of his photos of the sling. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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