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De Turenne Nieuport 11 from the kit Eduard 1/48


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The last steps are the most delicate. Here is the chronologic order in which parts should be assembled:

- rigging

- propeller

- vertical stabilizer

- Lewis gun and its support. About the latter, let's mention that Eduard provides 2 kinds of front support, following the version. On the De Turenne Nieuport 11, thanks to our pics, we know it is the round one that must be used (the one I used for my first build, as JMV, as bughunter). 

It is to mention that bughunter used an aftermarket Lewis gun (from Gaspatch). It is definitely a very nice piece but not so faithful to the original if we take as reference the De Turenne pic:

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But the Eduard one, under condition you improve it a bit, is not really better (for my first build, it is the one I used). I have sent an e-mail to Marc Chassard to have his opinion on this question.

But, imho, the Eduard leg holding the gun is much worse than the gun itself, and that is why I tried to improve it (see my post# 27, p. 2). But studying the docs, and especially the one with De Turenne, it appears that the Eduard leg is not only much too thick, it is also too long, taking reference on the one above (pic n° 6 of the previous post), while it is obvious that, on the De Turenne Nieuport, it is a shorter leg that was used:

 

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Finally, it would be possible (not yet decided) to represent the gun as it is on this last pic, the barrel looking to the sky.

Waiting for Marc's answer about the gun, I will begin the rigging. For the latter, I intend to use the Uschi standard elastic rigging. I explained in the post# 3 the reasons of such a choice. I was though very impressed by the amazing rigging bughunter did for his build, using another option (I asked him which one, but didn't get a reply).

 

Edit a bit later:

 

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Before beginning the rigging job, I made a check on the whole build, and I noticed a detail for which I was not very happy, the collimator:

 

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This version is imho a little better than the first one I made.

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P.S:

1) no reply from Marc up to now about the gun model...

2) I tried to get the best of the De Turenne pic, lightening it a bit and avoiding arrows and labels, here is it:

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I not only suppose that there is no rear handle, like on this other pic:

 

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Anyway, imho, the Gaspatch model evoked above (post# 226) is finally not more faithful to the one we see on this period pic than the Eduard one.

In such conditions, 2 options:

- use the Eduard gun as it is, like on my first build

- modify it to be more faithful to the original as it appears on this pic, at least.

 

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All the period close-ups I could see show that there are no turnbuckles where the cross rigging is attached to the front cabane masts, like we may see fe on the pic below:

 

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I just represented this cross rigging:

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N.B: the propeller has been temporary placed for a nicer pic, it will be definitively glued after the whole rigging job, to make the latter as easier as possible.

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N.B: I am not sure at all this blueprint confirms the 2 wires in question...

 

As I just said, Marc just replied, saying that they were many variations of Lewis gun, and sending me the interesting doc below:

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Pity, imho, none of these variations looks like the gun on the De Turenne period pic...

I have asked Marc about the rigging, I hope he will lighten me...

 

Cheers,   Olivier

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In my previous post, I was wondering if 2 wires, visible on a BW pic, had to be represented.

I made new researches and the conclusion is that, no, they are not present on period pics. I won't post several ones not to unnecessarily burden  this thread, but just one, below:

 

 

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N.B: Marc just confirmed this in an e-mail I just got:

"Bonjour Olivier,

 

Non, ces haubans n'existent pas sur les Nieuport 11/16 d'époque, ni sur le type 17.

Votre photo montre une réplique moderne dont la structure nécessite sans doute l'ajout de ces haubans.

 

Pour information, un hauban supplémentaire joignant l'avant du fuselage au pied des mâts d'entre-plan a été ajouté sur les types 23 tardifs, les types 24, 24 bis et 27, donc uniquement sur les types de Nieuport "de fin de guerre", mais cela ne concerne pas votre montage.

Bien cordialement

Marc"

 

If you don't understand french, he explains that these wires were added on the late 23, 24, 24 bis and 27 of end war, and that this pic shows a modern replica for which, maybe, the structure required them. I thank warmly Marc for his great contribution to this thread, he will have been our "Nieuport expert" all along the build.

 

Ok, so the last rigging job will concern the rear part of the airplane. 

Focus on the tensioners: Eduard provides, in both versions, really not convincing plastic parts (B9). They are too small and too thick (0,37 mm). A demanding model maker won't use them.

On the PE sheet (Profipack set or optional set for WE ed.), they are much better... but, one more time, aren't they a bit too thin (0,1 mm thickness, as usual with PE parts, as mentioned several times in this thread)?
As, luckily, I have 2 PE sets, shouldn't I, like I did for the windscreen, glue together these PE parts 21 to get 0,2 mm thickness tensioners?

Let's try to give an answer:

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Ok, I will go on with the 0,1 mm ones, considering that nothing is sure and that this 0,1 mm thickness is in the error margin. It will remain possible, by painting them, to get them slightly thicker...

 

 

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Now that the question of the tensioners thickness is solved, let's focus on the best strategy with these tiny parts: 

1) Eduard, in the instruction sheet, suggests to glue the tensioners 21 at the step 5 (11 steps in total). I suggest on the contrary to glue them very lately, like I do, because assembled early, it is very probable that you will unstick them (and maybe damage them…) with the many handles to come.

2) Take in consideration that you will have to glue the wires on these tensioners. As I did with the turnbuckles, I suggest to glue the wires while the tensioners are still on their PE sheet sprue.

Now let's take a look at the Eduard PE sprues, in both versions (I recall that they are different, see the post# 4, p. 1). Which one would you use preferably?

 

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N.B: you will need 6 tensioners for the build, while the Profipack provides generously 8 ones, and the WE set 7 ones.

 

Ok, I suppose that, like me, if luckily you have the Profipack set, it is the one you will choose: the tensioners are much more easy to cut (fixed by only 1 point, well placed). If you have the WE one, the method below will be possible but more difficult:

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I suggest to place the parts, that are very small, on a contrasted support, such this yellow acetate sheet (a wink to Juan Manuel...)

 

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Excellent work on the rigging. For the PE, 0.1 mm in 1/48 scale is 4.8 mm in real life so that would seem quite right to me, so a good choice I think.

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5 hours ago, JeroenS said:

Excellent work on the rigging. For the PE, 0.1 mm in 1/48 scale is 4.8 mm in real life so that would seem quite right to me, so a good choice I think.

Thanks a lot, Jeroen. Yes, I think that it is OK for this time with the PE thickness 😉

 

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The next step will be the vertical stabilizer with, here too, 2 stays that will come into the rear hole. I should do this step this afternoon. Notice that, here too, Eduard suggested in the instructions to assemble this vertical stabilizer at the step 5, very early, while it is a very delicate step, the part being glued on a very small area at the rear of the fuselage...

 

Cheers, Olivier

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So, I have a last big step, with the gun and its supports (main and front) Considering that the photo with De Turenne is of quite poor quality, and more that the gun is very particular, found nowhere else, I decide that I will use as reference the gun (and support) of the Navarre pic, very good quality and showing a more "conventional" Lewis gun. Here is the close-up with which I will work:

 

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The Eduard gun will be modified to be as close as possible from this one. I could have ordered one in the Gaspatch range if I had found a very good version, but it is not really the case. In particular, the magazine is much too high (on this aspect, the Eduard is better) and the handle on top of the latter is too thick. On the other hand, the barrels are better than the Eduard ones (gap missing between both on the latter), but this is something I may improve.

 

Tomorrow, I will be at my dental cabinet for another (and last, I hope) emergency dental service, before the deconfinement on Monday. I will try to finish this build on Sunday... 

 

Cheers,  Olivier

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Before working on the gun and its main support, I will focus on the front round support:

 

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N.B: the Profipack support is also softer, and I wonder if I should not modify this part rather than the other one (it will be bent more easily)

 

... but now, I have to go to pro work, this will be for tomorrow...

 

Olivier

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I just measured the largest width on both Eduard PE parts: it is about 0,4 mm on the We edition one and only 0,23 mm on the Profipack one.

This means that, even if bending the latter would be easier, it is much better to use the Profipack part.

Ok, I launch: the first thing is to remove the paint on the latter (I had airbrushed it) by dipping it in a US bath with alcohol (10 s.)

Then I have to unroll completely the part. To avoid the creation of tensions in the metal (even if it is very thin and quite soft), I gently heat it. Small and small, the part is unrolled (not perfectly in the medium part, the hardest).

I then use my Master Tool Photo Etched Part Bender (L) to get the part as flat as possible (unrolling caused small waves, especially in the middle area)

 

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A bench mark is marked at the middle, 16 mm.

 

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1h30 later:

 

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Well, still 2 very important parts, the main gun support and the gun itself, and my build will be over. I was a bit optimistic thinking the latter would be over today, but it will definitely be very soon...

 

Cheers,   Olivier

 

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Focus on the main gun support:

if some of you remember, I said very early in the thread (post# 27, p. 2) that the Eduard part (B5) was really much too thick, too long imho and not faithful to any original one (there are several versions). I had tried to improve it, using as reference this one, with very long double thin arms and a kind of extender joined to a short bipod support:

 

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But it was not a good idea, first because it is very difficult to represent at 1/48, but also because it is definitely not the type we may see on the De Turenne pic, much shorter:

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in fact, the bipod thin base has nearly the same shape but seems much higher, while, on the contrary, there hardly seems to be no extending arm but just a hinge.

 

The "Navarre" gun seems to represent a kind of intermediate option, with a small bipod base (like in the long arms option) but with a single arm round section short extension, combined here (like for the De Turenne pic) to the round front support:

 

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I have to choose between the 2 last options. The last one is tempting for the same reason than for the gun (exposed in the post# 241),  a much better quality pic to use as reference.

So it is what I should do (unless I change my mind...)

 

Cheers,  Olivier

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Thanks a lot, Richie. Yes, very fiddly (I learn an english word). And for a first try, it is not too bad. But, looking back, I think I can do better now that I am a bit more experienced. I will try anyway as soon as possible (full pro working day tomorrow, my progress will be slower from now).

I made the below merciless close-up comparison that will be very useful to get a better support:

 

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Cheers, have a nice evening, and take care,   

 

Olivier

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Merciless indeed, but you're right, and I'm certain the second attempt will be much better! I have the same problem myself sometimes, and although I really don't want to do it all again, I'm usually glad I did afterwards!

 

Ian

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For this 2nd gun main support version, I began to work on the arm, with many corrections to bring (the blue labels show the right values that will be applied, the red ones the bad values on the first version):

 

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P.S: Jeff has sent me an e-mail about the Magic Powder I mentioned several times in the thread, as he could not find it up to now.

It appears that this product has been renamed, it is now called Magicdust 21 Glass Powder, and it is now packaged more conveniently (I had got a simple pouch, that is why I placed it in a syringe with a tip😞

 

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Not expensive, long lasting, a very useful product for the model maker, that may be used with any liquid cyano (not only the anaerobic Colle 21)... It is imho less interesting to use with a gel cyano, but maybe I 'm wrong.

 

Cheers,  Olivier

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