Odd 4th Armoured Division Sherman camouflage

[KRK4m]

Looking for some OD+Earth Brown No.5 camouflaged US Army M4 Shermans from Northern Europe in 1944-45 I just found the strangely camouflaged M4 Shermans from (as said) 4th Armoured Division.

One is portrayed by Heller 1/72 kit (#49892, 56892 and 79892)

 

 

and another (maybe it's another interpretation of the same vehicle - I can't see the serial number precisely) by EasyModel as # 36253 

http://www.easymodel.net/index.php/Index/ProductDetail/id/421.html

AFAIK the Earth Yellow No.6 (~FS30257) is not listed as being the complementary camo colour for the Northern Europe - correct me if I'm wrong. IMHO the two-coloured US tank schemes there consisted of OD No.9 (~FS33070) plus either Earth Brown No.5 (~FS30099) or Black (~FS37038). 

Mind that this division landed in France in July 1944 (some 5 weeks after the D-day) and had never fought in any tropical or desert environment. So what do you think about it?

Cheers

Michael

Edited March 17, 2020 by KRK4m

[M3talpig]

On 17/03/2020 at 09:10, KRK4m said:

Looking for some OD+Earth Brown No.5 camouflaged US Army M4 Shermans from Northern Europe in 1944-45 I just found the strangely camouflaged M4 Shermans from (as said) 4th Armoured Division.

One is portrayed by Heller 1/72 kit (#49892, 56892 and 79892)

 

 

and another (maybe it's another interpretation of the same vehicle - I can't see the serial number precisely) by EasyModel as # 36253 

http://www.easymodel.net/index.php/Index/ProductDetail/id/421.html

AFAIK the Earth Yellow No.6 (~FS30257) is not listed as being the complementary camo colour for the Northern Europe - correct me if I'm wrong. IMHO the two-coloured US tank schemes there consisted of OD No.9 (~FS33070) plus either Earth Brown No.5 (~FS30099) or Black (~FS37038). 

Mind that this division landed in France in July 1944 (some 5 weeks after the D-day) and had never fought in any tropical or desert environment. So what do you think about it?

Cheers

Michael

I see Hurricane at the top there...did a fair bit of research on her as i was doing my Sherman there are some nice photo's of her.

She landed at Utah on the 9th of June 1944 from an LST as the pictures show she was fitted for wading but never needed them and shortly after landing the wading equipment was removed

At some point between June and August she was repainted with earth (possibly black as Steve Zaloga stated he found evidence that 2nd where issued with black and a regimented scheme) over olive paint which was the 2nd armoured divisions norm for all there tanks and on the 16th August she had a full engine refit.

The repaint retained her name but eliminated the turret markings and the load masters info on the hull sides and also the air recognition star in favour of an air recog orange panel which was draped over the stowage.

Tracks where T51 not the T48 shown in the diagram and she had a convoy horn mounted in a bump guard on the glacis

She also had stowage handle welded to the upper turret sides towards the bustle.

What her fate was i couldn't find out but as the average life expectancy of the Sherman at this stage of the war was very short i would think she was knocked out at some point. 

An interesting subject and i actually ended up modeling a Sherman called Buffalo so this info was never used by me, but should i do another Sherman it will be Hurricane.

Not what you where after just thought it was interesting.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by M3talpig

[KRK4m]

Frankly speaking at the very moment (as there are no opinions about the sandy one) I'm also considering the Hurricane, as she is well documented vehicle (and not plain OD overall that I try to avoid at any cost). Do you mean the scheme as provided by Tamiya 1/35 kit faultless?

Cheers

Michael

[M3talpig]

14 minutes ago, KRK4m said:

Frankly speaking at the very moment (as there are no opinions about the sandy one) I'm also considering the Hurricane, as she is well documented vehicle (and not plain OD overall that I try to avoid at any cost). Do you mean the scheme as provided by Tamiya 1/35 kit faultless?

Cheers

Michael

Having done a fair bit of reading i would consider the Tamiya kits decal choice fine if your doing her as she appeared on the day she landed but overall there are a few problems with the Tamiya kit ...if i remember correctly the real Hurricane was an Alco manufactured Sherman so there would have been some differences with transmission housing and others things. If your doing the camo version then the only decal you will need is the Hurricane name as all the other markings were painted out. I believe there is still some argument over whether she was black over olive or earth over olive, As i edited my post above to state Steve Zaloga seems to think it was actually black not earth but i guess it as with a lot of things Sherman related open to interpretation.

 

Regards Steve

[M3talpig]

Also i found this while digging around on youtube and saved it to my favourites..... 

 

[KRK4m]

Actually I'm the Braille scale man and the kit I have to use is the Heller one mentioned above. Ultimately my modest WW2 US tank collection will be created by M3 Lee, M3 Stuart, M4 Sherman and M24 Chaffee. And as I try to avoid plain OD vehicles at any cost I'd like to build the Lee with Tunisian mud splashes, the Stuart with No.6 Earth Yellow areas, the M24 with black ones and the M4 with No.8 Earth Red. But if even Hurricane was overpainted with black, there are also some suspicions that several M24s from 117th Cavalry Recce (Forces of Valor 80075 1;32 model) sported No.8 Earth Red in 1945.

Cheers

Michael 

Edited March 23, 2020 by KRK4m

[JackG]

Came across this by chance, while searching for something completely unrelated:

 

 

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

[KRK4m]

Although M4A4 variant itself is a little bit out of my interest, the photo is great.

But back to the 8th Battalion M4 yesterday I came across the picture used by worldwide AFV guru Steven J. Zaloga for the cover of his "Modelling the US Army M4 (75mm) Sherman medium tank" book 

https://tankandafvnews.com/2016/04/11/steven-zaloga-afv-model-gallery/#jp-carousel-6904

And as this tank (actually the model built by Steven himself) is captioned as "M4 of 8th Tank Battalion 4th Armored Division in France 1944" I must call my general question being definitely answered.

The only problems remaining are the registration numbers - my Eyeball Mk.I (made in 1956) scanners are unable to read the last digits. 

So if anybody of you has the book mentioned above or the EasyModel M4  https://aliexpress.ru/item/32836639446.html  (existing also as Trumpeter 36253) help me please.

On Steven's model I can see only 3022... and 303.7..S on the Chinese toy.

Cheers

Michael 

 

[JackG]

USA 3039798 S

 

http://panzer100slopedarmor.blogspot.com/2012/10/m4-sherman-avranches-1944.html

 

There is also USA 3039164 S found on a colour plate in the Osprey book showing a Sherman 3/4 rear view.   Can be viewed here around page 26:

https://issuu.com/marioalfonso79/docs/vanguard_26_-_the_sherman_tank_in_u

 

regards,

Jack

[KRK4m]

Bingo, Jack - that's what I was looking for!

Early Baldwin- or Pullman-built M4 from NWE, camouflaged with Earth Yellow patches over the OD.

Great thanks for these links.

If we survived the COVID pandemy you'll see it within the RFI somewhere in May/June I hope ....

Cheers

Michael