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BlueNosers352nd

US Interior Green - Gunze or Tamiya

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I know this can be like opening a can of worms, but in the Tamiya or Mr Color (not Aqueous) lines, has anyone seen a good Interior Green, either in a available color or a mixing ratio?  At this point, it would be for a F6F-3.

 

I do see a recommendation to mix of XF-3 (Yellow) and XF-5 (Green). 

 

Or, as I have been out of the loop for quite a few years..........any good conversion charts for Tamiya or Gunze Mr Color (not Aqueous)

 

No Vallejo or Mission Models recommendations please, I wanna burn down my house every time I try those.


Thanks!

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Here are some conversion charts, but I can't vouch for their accuracy. I pretty much mix a lot of my colors to a set of the appropriate country's color chips.  You can always make your own, using black, green, grey, and blue to get a close match to FS34151, which is the FS equivalent for U.S. interior green. IIRC, the real thing was tinted zinc chromate primer to which black was added to get the required shade; government inspectors allowed a lot of leeway, and in addition, some aircraft manufacturers used their own "equivalent" for interior green that  they they purchased from various paint suppliers like DuPont, Berryhill Bros., Testors, etc. Bell and Curtiss had their "own" version of interior green that was not a match to the FS/ANA color. (For the life of me, I don't know how @Dana Bell came to know so much on the subject!) I hope this helps.

Mike

 

https://www.ipmsnymburk.com/tamiya mixing/FSTamiya.pdf

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_fs.htm

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_tamiya.htm

 

 

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If you want a simple out-of-the-bottle solution, Gunze Interior Green is the way to go.

 

If you want or don't mind some subtle variation, Tamiya XF-4 Yellow Green mixed with pretty much any darker Tamiya green will give you a good result if you're not afraid of the ambiguities inherent in artistic interpretation.  Their recommendation to use XF-5 works well, but I've had good results mixing up "Interior Green" with XF-4 plus Olive Green, RAF Dark Green, etc.  For something like Curtiss' distinctly brownish IG, I've used Tamiya Olive Drab and/or Field Drab mixed with XF-4.  

 

 

 

Not to open a can of worms, but are you sure the F6F-3 you wish to model didn't have a Bronze Green cockpit? :devil:

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Gunze has an Interior Green (C-27) in the RAF run of colors (C21-C32) and a Zinc Chromate Type 1 (C-351). I've been using C-27 for RAF aircraft and C-351 for US aircraft interior green. BTW, C352 is Chromate Yellow Primer.

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11 minutes ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

Not to open a can of worms, but are you sure the F6F-3 you wish to model didn't have a Bronze Green cockpit? :devil:

That is a good question......I was just assuming.  My F6F References are not that good.  This is the one I am doing, but I really don't know any details other than one picture I've found and it only shows the pilot in the cockpit and the nose art.  I believe it is VF-38

49516704036_1bde01f19b_c.jpg

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

Not to open a can of worms, but are you sure the F6F-3 you wish to model didn't have a Bronze Green cockpit?

See the attached link for some information on Hellcat cockpit colors- depending upon the BuNo of your subject, which I was not able to discover, it could be bronze or interior green. F6F-3 BuNo's were 04775-04958, so if the information in the IPMS Stockholm article is correct, then F6F-3's with serials 04775-04875 would most likely have had  bronze green cockpits, but I think because your subject is in tri-scheme, my personal uneducated opinion is that its BuNo is past that. That being said, unless the actual BuNo can be discovered and is within the first 100 or so, I would tend to go with interior green. Hope this helps a little.

Mike 

 

https://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/05/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part3.htm

 

Edited by 72modeler
corrected spelling

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2 hours ago, dnl42 said:

Gunze has an Interior Green (C-27) in the RAF run of colors (C21-C32) and a Zinc Chromate Type 1 (C-351). I've been using C-27 for RAF aircraft and C-351 for US aircraft interior green. BTW, C352 is Chromate Yellow Primer.

I just bought a jar of C-27, thinking it was American Interior Green. It actually looks more similar to yellow zinc chromate and doesn't at all jibe with my conception of British Interior Grey-Green. I added some black to the bottle and think it will do nicely for P-40 cockpits.

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3 hours ago, Seawinder said:

I just bought a jar of C-27, thinking it was American Interior Green. It actually looks more similar to yellow zinc chromate and doesn't at all jibe with my conception of British Interior Grey-Green. I added some black to the bottle and think it will do nicely for P-40 cockpits.

I too have C-27 and concur with Seawinder. Any similarity between C-27 and RAF Grey-Green stops at the word "green" in the label.  Try a test swatch of C-27 to see if it is too yellow-green for you, then darken it some if so.

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10 hours ago, BlueNosers352nd said:

That is a good question......I was just assuming.  My F6F References are not that good.  This is the one I am doing, but I really don't know any details other than one picture I've found and it only shows the pilot in the cockpit and the nose art.  I believe it is VF-38

49516704036_1bde01f19b_c.jpg

 

8 hours ago, 72modeler said:

See the attached link for some information on Hellcat cockpit colors- depending upon the BuNo of your subject, which I was not able to discover, it could be bronze or interior green. F6F-3 BuNo's were 04775-04958, so if the information in the IPMS Stockholm article is correct, then F6F-3's with serials 04775-04875 would most likely have had  bronze green cockpits, but I think because your subject is in tri-scheme, my personal uneducated opinion is that its BuNo is past that. That being said, unless the actual BuNo can be discovered and is within the first 100 or so, I would tend to go with interior green. Hope this helps a little.

Mike 

 

https://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/05/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part3.htm

Ah-- I built Lolly from the 1/72 Weekend Edition boxing.  I'm pretty sure I used Gunze Interior Green for that build so I agree with you both.

 

It's a cool scheme, quite an attractive oddball with that white spine and fin and the nose art, rare for Hellcats. 

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I can vouch for the Tamiya mixes of XF-3 (Yellow) and XF-5 (Green) 2/1. This is shown above the lid of Mr. Hobby U.S. Interior Green

 

002-jpg.551087

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I have 3 different Interior Greens, the Mig and Lifecolor are both labelled FS34151 and the Hobby Coloraturas is labelled U.S Armay & Navy Aircraft WWII.

The Lifecolor is lighter than the other two. The Hobby Color is semi-gloss. I prefer the Mig as I like the way it goes down and it's matt like the Lifecolor.

As far as the variation in shades goes, by the time they interiors are weathered and layered for highlights and shadows along with the variations in the paint shades used on the real aircraft, it's maybe not that important.

 

 

spacer.png

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I like the Mig coverage & colour, it's just the weird smell that puts me off :blink:

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1 hour ago, rifraf said:

I have 3 different Interior Greens, the Mig and Lifecolor are both labelled FS34151 and the Hobby Coloraturas is labelled U.S Armay & Navy Aircraft WWII.

The Lifecolor is lighter than the other two. The Hobby Color is semi-gloss. I prefer the Mig as I like the way it goes down and it's matt like the Lifecolor.

As far as the variation in shades goes, by the time they interiors are weathered and layered for highlights and shadows along with the variations in the paint shades used on the real aircraft, it's maybe not that important.

 

 

 

 

IMHO Lifecolor's Interior Green has little to do with the US colour, is more of a grey-green than a proper yellow-green. At the same time it works quite well for British cockpits, it's just a bit too dark. I often use this as a basis for the colour I use in my model of WW2 British aircraft.

 

PS: Welcome to the forum !

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I had some luck adding 1 part XF1 Black to 9 parts XF4 Chromate Yellow for a chromate green. I added more Black and got interior green, and a bit more suddenly gave me a dull dark green. I was out of dull dark green at the time and decided to experiment. May be a coincidence but it’s in my tool box now. 
 

Tim

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4 hours ago, Greenshirt said:

I had some luck adding 1 part XF1 Black to 9 parts XF4 Chromate Yellow for a chromate green. I added more Black and got interior green, and a bit more suddenly gave me a dull dark green. I was out of dull dark green at the time and decided to experiment. May be a coincidence but it’s in my tool box now. 
 

Tim

I'm with you, Greenshirt. I generally mix my own US Interior Green(s) the same way, except I use Testors enamels. It actually emulates what various manufacturers did during the war; there wasn't a set color standard at least until late.

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16 hours ago, Greenshirt said:

I had some luck adding 1 part XF1 Black to 9 parts XF4 Chromate Yellow for a chromate green. I added more Black and got interior green, and a bit more suddenly gave me a dull dark green. I was out of dull dark green at the time and decided to experiment. May be a coincidence but it’s in my tool box now. 
 

Tim

Add a little dark blue to that mix and you can nail dull dark/bronze green!

Mike

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Posted (edited)

I've read a lot over the years where people state this is how it was done, yet never

produced any Bone Fide evidence to back up their opinions (let alone to actually see

the colours they are purporting to be actual)

 

This photo is from the Curtiss P40M/N E&M manual July 1943, which gives

the ratios of a particular ingredient  for "Cockpit Green" (a Yellow Green)

note the amount of carbon black, compared to 100 gallons of Zinc Chromate Primer,

is between 0.1-0.4 lbs, and those two are not the only colours or ingredients

- note my attempt to in the photo try and illustrate using albeit smaller amounts

with Humbrol paints

P40K+Build+Cockpit+Green.jpg

 

Note the difference in using the 0.1lbs Carbon Black (or similar) to the Dark colour with 0.4 lbs (almost a

Bronze Green)

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited by LDSModeller

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8 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

I've read a lot over the years where people state this is how it was done, yet never

produced any Bone Fide evidence to back up their opinions (let alone to actually see

the colours they are purporting to be actual)

Not quite sure what point you're making. As far as I'm concerned, none of the readily available bottled/canned "Interior Greens" look that great to me. I think I can get closer to what I see in photographs by mixing yellow z.c. and black to taste, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that different manufacturers used different shades.

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1 hour ago, Seawinder said:

Not quite sure what point you're making

Who says I'm out to make a point - just my observations over the years

1 hour ago, Seawinder said:

As far as I'm concerned, none of the readily available bottled/canned "Interior Greens" look that great to me

Yes, I tend to agree that they are very generic

 

1 hour ago, Seawinder said:

I think I can get closer to what I see in photographs by mixing yellow z.c. and black to taste,

That can work too - depending on the aircraft type

 

With respect to P 40's, especially my reference to the M/N models (probably covers K's too)

the colours are not just Zinc Chromate & Carbon black.

The actual recipe in the above document gives 4 Ingredients, which doesn't make your generic

Green Chromate paint when mixed (nothing remote in colour).

Just recently (as in this year) I have been privileged to see the interior cockpit colour of a Former RNZAF P40N

which had the same/similar colour to the darker shade in my post above as in applied by Curtiss 

 

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On 17/03/2020 at 01:33, fubar57 said:

I can vouch for the Tamiya mixes of XF-3 (Yellow) and XF-5 (Green) 2/1. This is shown above the lid of Mr. Hobby U.S. Interior Green

 

002-jpg.551087

I'll do the mix for my Dauntless ,,, thanks for the tip.

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I’ve always used Humbrol Matt 31 for interiors.

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I was doing a google search earlier for this very question and have since made a mix using other tamiya colours that I have and only just stumbled across this! Damn!

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On 16/03/2020 at 15:33, Seawinder said:

I just bought a jar of C-27, thinking it was American Interior Green. It actually looks more similar to yellow zinc chromate and doesn't at all jibe with my conception of British Interior Grey-Green. I added some black to the bottle and think it will do nicely for P-40 cockpits.

 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but Gunze British Interior Grey Green is C364. It's in the box set of interior colours. The US interior green in that set is C351 which, to my eye, is a dead ringer for Gunze Aqueous H58 US interior green. FWIW.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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