Tiger I E

[dov]

Hallo again

This Tiger I E from Tamiya I built within a few days. Beside the news from Corona. I used Mr. Color 39 and SM 203 special steel. It was a straight uneventful build. Just to get an idea what a Tiger I is actually.

This Tiger should show us one of them before action in Tunesia.

My next kit is the Tiger II from HB.

Before I start a kit with full interior, I build each tank just straight. A little break from my F-15 project.

Happy modelling

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve27752]

Very nice, no unit markings?

[dov]

Well

I choose to make all tanks in a maintenance of ready to delivery mode from factory. After trials....ready to be deployed!

[Badder]

Hi Dov,

It's fairly obvious that you are primarily an 'aircaft modeller' just by looking at those 'panel' lines.😃

I shall refrain from pointing out a couple of issues with the tracks as I don't think you intended to make and paint your Tiger so as to make it look 'as real as possible'.

You'll be pleased to know that all of the Tamiya Tigers are dead easy to build. I can't tell you if that's the case with HB Tigers as I've never made one.

 

Just one tiny tip, for you and anyone else should you ever build another, regarding the lagging on the air pipes (the four tubes you painted a steel colour) If you mark out their lengths on the given tubes, and then put a drip of thin CA at those points it will soak into the fabric and turn it more plastic-like.  TYou can then cut/snip the tubes to length without the ends fraying.

 

Rearguards,

Badder

 

[dov]

Thank you Badder

I was not happy with the solution of the air pipes. I put in CA. Probably too less. The same issue as on rigging material. BTW: What color were original tracks of a Tiger. Since it was a high quality steel, so I assume steel darkened into a shade of grey. Screws may have been browned (in German: brüniert). This is a cheapest and fastest way to protect steel from corrosion. What are actually all the tools on the tank for, beside an ax or shovel. The sticks on the side, at the position of ropes? Tanks are so far away. Now, my Tiger II from HB is basically sprayed in Minium. This is a protective paint for steel, the molecule is from lead and oxygen.

Thank you!

Happy modelling

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, dov said:

BTW: What color were original tracks of a Tiger. Since it was a high quality steel, so I assume steel darkened into a shade of grey. Screws may have been browned (in German: brüniert). This is a cheapest and fastest way to protect steel from corrosion.

 

tracks are Manganese Steel,  something that @Das Abteilung has brought up.

 

in short, seems that Tamiya XF-84 Burnt Iron is a good starting point, but do read the thread,  it's an interesting read, note comments about colour of armour plate etc.

 

HTH

[Kingsman]

Have a look online for pictures of Bovington's Tiger.  Real working, and original, Tiger tracks - with real mud!  Don't be fooled by the spare links on the front: they're fibreglass replicas.  However, spare links were sometimes painted black.

 

IMHO XF-84 is too dark.  The weathered oxidised colour of manganese links in use is more of a coffee brown colour.  Late war German links could be a darker brown, towards dark chocolate, as the manganese content reduced.  The base colour of the new metal and the wear points is difficult to replicate, being somewhere between gold and metallic brown or between brass and bronze.  Any shade of silver or gunmetal it aint!

 

However. most of us default to using silvery shades on wear points to simulate the polished sheen.

[dov]

Hallo

I have to thank you so much for your effort, about the color of tracks of a German Tiger. Today I worked on my Tiger II and got confused with the HB track links, and confused about the color too.

In all museums, if you look at aircraft (this is where I am really at home), you find at so many displayed items anything, but not the real thing. So I looked for a book about tracks:

The author Peter Schwarzmann wrote the book:

Panzerketten : Die Gleisketten der deutschen Kettenfahrzeuge des Zweiten Weltkrieges

In English: Tank chains: The track chains of the German track vehicles of the Second World War. I do not know if you have anything like this in English.

Summary: The material for Tiger II tracks were ‘Ausweichqualität’ or replacement quality. Scrap material was used! Far away from high quality manganese. It was at the beginning, just the beginning of production.

I will read this books next weeks.

And I will make a post about the summary of this book too. I think we should stop myths and stories. I am totally new on the subject tank and I believe just facts. In aircraft modelling we have the same.

So, I am very curios, what the book may tell me!

Happy modelling

[Kingsman]

In theory there was a reverse supply chain for worn tracks to be collected, returned, smelted and re-cast.  It just didn't work out like that.  Other priorities.  On a Tiger you're talking between 3 and 4 tonnes of metal per track IIRC.

 

Germany lost access to Swedish iron ore in 1944, which didn't help.  It had access to iron ore in Germany itself and in Austria, Czechoslovakia and France, and some manganese in France.  4% of world iron ore production in Greater Germany in 1940 plus about 12% in France.  But the mainland European ore gave only about half the iron yield per tonne of Swedish ore.  French supply was also lost in '44 with Czech supply not far behind.  Scrap metal became the major source of steel, and other metals.

 

You can make perfectly effective tank tracks from steel not containing manganese.  They just wear out far more quickly: a few hundred km compared to a few thousand.  Yes, manganese could increase the life as much as 10 times. 

 

The irony here is that the Soviets, who appreciated that tanks are a disposable asset in wartime and built them cheaply, were able to use manganese throughout the war (they had their own) but the Germans - who never really cottoned-on to the disposable nature of tanks until the Pz IVJ and continued to build costly ones - had to do without manganese later in the war.  The interlocking of armour plate joins on later German tanks was a response to the decreasing quality of the weld metal they could make and of the welders doing the work.

[dov]

Hallo

It is very interesting to find somebody who has a deeper insight in the tank production with all details.

Just to say: Me, I am a mechanical engineer. Well, I never was interested in tanks; but started modelling it, since I wanted a break in a/c modelling. My interest is production, steel and mechanical development. Not the weapon. This is a side aspect.

The welding process is the key. To understand: Welding was a young technology. Acetone welding was good established, electric welding on the way. It was a new and young field in research. In all branches of war technology.

For tanks: The increase of thickness made welding more difficult. It is no wonder, that the teething of armor plates had two advantages: Reduced use of jigs, reduced production time, and the risk not to melt the core! The increasing thickness was an insurmountable problem in the standard welding process. Welding alone is too less: The embrittlement of the welding area is very destructive. Low temperature or the vibration of a shot.

The alloy elements needed for steel production were at low availability. The quality of tracks: I suppose everything was used which was at disposal.

Manganese steel is greyish with a brown tint. This is about Mr. Hobby C308 with a black and brown tint.

 

Picture of real manganese steel

 

The reverse production tracks were also used.

·        The interlocking of armor plate joins: Today used in mass production for commercial products, to reduce jigs and transfer time in and out of jigs and to use low quality employes.

 

Thank you & Happy modelling