Robert Stanford Tuck new questions ?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

       Im starting to organize my Robert Stanford Tuck info for my planned builds. The builds will include Two Mk.I spitfires coded GR*P and FZ*L. A Hurricane Mk.I coded DT*A, and a Spitfire Mk.Vb coded RS*T. Im currently planning on building the Mk.Vb as I have decals and kit. Im looking for any photo’s of Tucks planes or him, anything i can use to glean info for future work. The only three photo’s I have of the Mk.Vb are the three of the plane after his crash. If anyone has photo’s of this plane prior to the last flight, I would be grateful if you shared them. If you send them via P/M or Email I guarantee i wont share them without your permission. They would be strictly for personal use. Any help would be grateful and I give thanks in advanced. 
 

Dennis

Edited July 2, 2020 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Going to give this a quick kick to the top. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

     Hoping anyone has some info on R.S.Tuck ? Im hoping to find any existing photo’s of five of his planes. Since I am starting with his Mk.Vb the one crashed in occupied France. It is coded RS*T and production #BL336. This is the most important right now however his other planes were. 
 

Spitfire Mk.I FZ*L K9906 65 Sq., 

Spitfire Mk.I GR*P N3249 92 Sq. (East India),

Hurricane Mk.I DT*A V6555, 257 Sq. (Burma),

and Hurricane Mk.IIc FM*A Z3152 257 Sq. (Burma). 
 

Im Hoping someone has something on any of these aircraft, or on Tuck himself in there files ? 
 

Dennis

[mhaselden]

This might help:

 

 

Photo was taken at Paris in 1940, I believe.  Stanford-Tuck is in the middle with Allan Wright to photo right.  The Spitfire is a 92 Sqn bird, GR-U, which shows some useful details for your attempt to build GR-P.  Note the black port wing underside with Type A1 roundel, the silver-painted underside to the cowling with the individual aircraft letter ('U' in this case).  The fuselage roundel appears to be quite large with a narrow yellow surround.  Also note the rather thin-looking fin flash.  

 

And here's an artist's impression (take it for what it's worth) which aligns with many of the features we see in the above photo:

 

 

Hope this helps a little.  

Edited March 24, 2020 by mhaselden

[Dave Swindell]

8 minutes ago, mhaselden said:

The Spitfire is a 92 Sqn bird, GR-J

Judging by the letter under the spinner, it would be GR-U?

[mhaselden]

1 minute ago, Dave Swindell said:

Judging by the letter under the spinner, it would be GR-U?

 

Yeah...you're right  Thanks for the correction.  Clearly I was being brain-dead when I rapidly scribbled my reply - I knew it was GR-U from having seen it in a few books ("Spitfire Aces" and a book I have about 92 Sqn in the BoB).  I'll amend my previous post. 

[Peter Roberts]

Just curious - any reason for wanting a photo of the VB pre-crash? Wouldn't the photos of the plane post crash be okay?

 

PR

[mhaselden]

Here's one of the crash which shows interesting detail of Stanford-Tuck's "scoreboard":

 

[mhaselden]

And here's another (albeit not the best quality) from the series taken in Paris, with GR-U clearly visible:

 

[Smithy]

When Tuck flew to Paris on the 16th May leading Blue Section and back on the 17th, he was flying T (source his logbook).

 

He didn't regularly fly a U coded 92 machine until July and possibly June if N9434 was coded U and which @NG899 discussed in a thread last year. The problem is that Tuck's logbook swaps back and forth using codes for a period and then serials. He flew N9434 from the 7th June until the 25th June when he went on leave. When he returned to operations on the 3rd July he flies U almost constantly. I agree with NG899's idea that N9434 and U were very probably the same machine.

[mhaselden]

I was simply providing the photos to show the marking style of 92 Sqn Spitfires during the period when they were GR codes.

[Troy Smith]

10 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hurricane Mk.I DT*A V6555, 257 Sq. (Burma),

This one is 'famous' but I've never seen a photo. 

 

I had a look at asisbiz, 

The well know photos are of Tuck in V6864,

 

 

 

Note the Hurricane Rotol prop on V7137.

 

close up showing Burma flag

 

V6555 has been discussed here before.  I'll see if I can find that.

 

This I have no memory of seeing before

 

Hurricane I RAF 257Sqn landing at Martlesham Heath 1940-IWM CH1673

 

this is the profile from The Hawker Hurricane. famous aircraft, their history and how to model them No.4

 

which does list a reference photo, I'd be inclined to believe that V6555 had Hurricane Rotol though.

 

EDIT

http://hsgalleries.com/hurricanedt_1.htm

 

interesting article,  though I don't believe V6555 had a DH prop. 

one interesting detail

Quote

The final Hurricane is the Mk IIc, FM o A – Z3152. During 1941, 257SQN codes were changed from the well-known DT. It is thought that only one photo is available of this aircraft. Unfortunately, I did not receive permission to include it in this article. 

 

which implies there is a photo.

[mhaselden]

A few Hurricane cockpit close-up shots:

 

 

 

 

And another view of the airframe, although it's not V6555:

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

7 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

Just curious - any reason for wanting a photo of the VB pre-crash? Wouldn't the photos of the plane post crash be okay?

 

PR

     Hello Peter normally Id say yes however Ive found a bit if a problem with the few post crash photos that I can find. They show the plane from both rear quarters, not directly side views or front quarters photo’s. The reason Im really looking for any photo’s is that i have seen an later photo of the Vb. It is supposedly Tucks plane taken post crash dismantled in a german depot. Problem is it has the kill tally board on the Starboard nose just forward of the cockpit ? Every photo I can find shows the kill tally either port forward of cockpit or No kill tally on RS*T ? Thus the confusion ? Was the kill tally board on both sides of the nose, or was it on only one side ? If only one side, which port/starboard, or was it neither ? Thus my need to find photo’s to confirm or deny existence of the starboard kill tally ? 
 

Dennis

[silberpferd]

Beside the pictures of Hurricane V6864, there is also a short movie made at the same time (starting at 1:07)

 

Laurent

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Many thanks to everyone for the help, and photo’s. 
 

Dennis

[Peter Roberts]

 

Dennis, I can understand the confusion. I produced decals for this plane many years ago and had the same problem interpreting the score board. Then another more experienced modeller pointed out that, in some photos of his crashed plane, it appears the Germans have removed the panel with the score board, and replaced it back to front, giving the appearance that the score board is also on the starboard side. I believe the scoreboard is on the port side only.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

     Hmmm I was thinking that as well @Peter Roberts... I was looking for confirmation, and I think you may just have given it to me. Here is the photo in question. 

It does appear that they set the panel on top and it overhangs the SB side giving the impression of both sides having scoreboards. That will be the route I take then, port side scoreboard only.

 

Dennis

[NG899]

Hi Dennis,

 

I know this doesn't answer your question but, for clarification, the photo of P9434 GR-U with the three pilots shows 92 Sqn's Blue Section, L-R - P/O Bob Holland, Flt/Lt Robert Stanford Tuck, P/O Allan Wright. It was taken at RAF circa 7 June at Hornchurch / Northolt. The GR-U which was in Paris (N3290) had been shot down and replaced by this aircraft which Tuck flew a lot from 7 June to 11 July. I'm super-detailing the Airfix 24th scale Spitfire, within reason, as P9434, to be finished by November. There are lots of watch-outs with Spitfires at this time, and 92 Sqn's fuselage roundel proportions are on of them (as are 610 Sqn's). PM me with your email address for some info which may help you. Let me just say that most colour profile and painting illustrations of GR-P N3249 are wrong! Check our decals for GR-P at www.fundekals.com and you'll see what I mean. 

 

If I'm delayed replying, apologies - in the middle of business continuity management for you know what.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

        Hello everyone... Im back with more question’s about R.S.Tuck ? He was in 92 Squadron for the Battle of France. Several sources claim he was still with 92 until at least mid-September when he went to 257 Squadron.
A) Is this correct, and if yes was he still flying a Spitfire coded GR*P ? B) The first GR*P N3249 was lost in France if Ive read correctly ? C) If not which plane was he most likely to have used ? The current Airfix 1/72 Mk.I Spitfire cones with GR*U so it would only be a simple switch of code letter to do. Id like to build it for the upcoming Battle of Britain group build. 
 

Dennis

Edited July 2, 2020 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Smithy]

4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

        Hello everyone... Im back with more question’s about R.S.Tuck ? He was in 92 Squadron for the Battle of France. Several sources claim he was still with 92 until at least mid-September when he went to 257 Squadron.
A) Is this correct, and if yes was he still flying a Spitfire coded GR*P ? B) The first GR*P N3249 was lost in France if Ive read correctly ? C) If not which plane was he most likely to have used ? The current Airfix 1/72 Mk.I Spitfire cones with GR*U so it would only be a simple switch of code letter to do. Id like to build it for the upcoming Battle of Britain group build. 
 

Dennis

 

Hi Dennis,

 

A ) Tuck was with 92 until ordered away to command 257 by signal on Wednesday 28th August. Tuck was actually in hospital on this day after getting into trouble with Dornier on the 25th. That day he was in QJ-Y (Y3268). Before this he had flown Z3040 (QJ-Z) a lot although not entirely exclusively.

 

B ) No N3249 was destroyed when it failed to return from an ops with 602 Sqn in 1941

 

C ) If you want one from the official BoB period then Z3040 as I mention above would suit the bill. If you want a GR coded machine then as I mentioned earlier in this thread N9434 was almost certainly coded GR-U.

 

HTH,

 

Tim

[NG899]

Oops.

N3249 was with 610 Sqn when lost. 

P9434 was almost certainly GR-U from late May when it was delivered to the Sqn on the day it’s predecessor as U was lost - N3290.

 

To clarify above comments in this thread, from all the evidence it seems fairly certain N3248 was GR-L, not N3192; and that N3268 was GR-Y, later QJ-Y, as Tuck’s log book confirms. It’s not unknown for ORB entries to not quite tally. 
 

Hope that helps.

 

Nick
 

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   If you are doing aircraft he flew here is an extract from a interview that i found on the net in 2007 

 

CUNNINGHAM: Did you ever fly a twin-engined fighter such as the 'Whirlwind?

TUCK: Yes, I flew the Whirlwind. And of course I flew De Havilland Mosquitoes also, but not in combat. I never used them in combat, but I flew them for the hell of it, because I liked them.

 

pm sent also 

 

  cheers

   jerry

Edited July 2, 2020 by brewerjerry

[dogsbody]

From the IWM:

 

Squadron Leader R R 'Bob' Stanford Tuck, commanding No. 257 Squadron, in the cockpit of his Hawker Hurricane at Martlesham Heath, November 1940.

 

Squadron Leader R R Stanford Tuck, Commanding Officer of No. 257 Squadron RAF, in his Hawker Hurricane Mark I, V6864 'DT-A', prepares to lead a section of Hurricanes to their take-off point, in the snow at Coltishall, Norfolk.

 

 

 

Chris

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

   If you are doing aircraft he flew here is an extract from a interview that i found on the net in 2007 

 

CUNNINGHAM: Did you ever fly a twin-engined fighter such as the 'Whirlwind?

TUCK: Yes, I flew the Whirlwind. And of course I flew De Havilland Mosquitoes also, but not in combat. I never used them in combat, but I flew them for the hell of it, because I liked them.

 

pm sent also 

 

  cheers

   jerry

I will be reading that asap, thank you Jerry for sending it. 

 

3 hours ago, NG899 said:

Oops.

N3249 was with 610 Sqn when lost. 

P9434 was almost certainly GR-U from late May when it was delivered to the Sqn on the day it’s predecessor as U was lost - N3290.

 

To clarify above comments in this thread, from all the evidence it seems fairly certain N3248 was GR-L, not N3192; and that N3268 was GR-Y, later QJ-Y, as Tuck’s log book confirms. It’s not unknown for ORB entries to not quite tally. 
 

Hope that helps.

 

Nick
 

Thanks Nick all the info will help in the end. 

 

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

From the IWM:

 

Squadron Leader R R 'Bob' Stanford Tuck, commanding No. 257 Squadron, in the cockpit of his Hawker Hurricane at Martlesham Heath, November 1940.

 

Squadron Leader R R Stanford Tuck, Commanding Officer of No. 257 Squadron RAF, in his Hawker Hurricane Mark I, V6864 'DT-A', prepares to lead a section of Hurricanes to their take-off point, in the snow at Coltishall, Norfolk.

 

 

 

Chris

Thanks Chris... Now Im real confused here, what are the official dates for the Battle of Britain ? Ive always thought July to October, with the Blitz continuing through at least January of 41. I know there were channel raids on shipping, before the bulk of the battle started in July. There were also cross channel raids continuously through 1944. But the primary dates are where I'm confused ? If he took over 257 in September wouldn't that qualify as part of the Battle ?  Ive read that those markings don't qualify as they're in November. Im still planning on a Spitfire Mk.I but for future reference it would be nice to know.