Another Phantom STGB Chat - Poll open.

[Bertie McBoatface]

25 minutes ago, Gidge said:

 

Everyone forgets to fair in the value of their time.  How many hours are you going to spend total on a kit like that 10? 20? 30?

 

Now compare that to spending the equivalent time at the pub, on the golf course, shooting range, out to dinner,  on a race track, weekend getaway, strip clubs etc. Compared to other hobbies and past times the $/hr figure works out pretty cheap once you put the investment in the start up costs. 

 

Then there's the value of your enjoyment. It's worth spending the extra money on a nice kit you'll enjoy working with. Why waste time fighting a lesser kit? 

 

The one exception is for those out there who enjoy the challenge of getting top results from older/cheaper/inaccurate kits.

Exactly right, mate. By which I mean that’s what I think. Lol. 
 

I like an old kit from time to time too, the monogram 1/48s from my youthful days still thrill me. The latest Tamiya offerings are just brilliantly engineered. They have joints that I can’t find a minute after I’ve dry fitted them! I give them 95/100 because I remain able to cock them up in some small way but they are generally idiot proof now. 
 

it’s a brilliant hobby ain’t it?

[Gidge]

21 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Exactly right, mate. By which I mean that’s what I think. Lol. 
 

I like an old kit from time to time too, the monogram 1/48s from my youthful days still thrill me. The latest Tamiya offerings are just brilliantly engineered. They have joints that I can’t find a minute after I’ve dry fitted them! I give them 95/100 because I remain able to cock them up in some small way but they are generally idiot proof now. 
 

it’s a brilliant hobby ain’t it?

I'm yet to try one of their new kits since returning to the hobby but I'm definitely looking forward to it.  Probably looking at a Tomcat or P38 depending on what's available towards the tail end of the Phantom I'll be doing for this grip build. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Gidge
Typo

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, Gidge said:

I'm yet to try one of their new kits since returning to the hobby but I'm definitely looking forward to it.  Probably looking at a Tomcat or P38 depending on what's available towards the tail end of the Phantom I'll be doing for this grip build. 

 

I've done the Tomcat and it was amazing. Highly recommended!

[trickyrich]

My comment was more about the cost of the model there..... and actually after looking at prices it's not a cheap model at all in most countries. It is a shame in that way the entry fee to build an awesome model is quite prohibitive (and intimidating) for a lot of people.

 

As a model goes, I agree, it's a lot of model for the money and you do get absolute quality for that money too (same for the F-14's I have 3 of those). Give me a chance I'd probably spend almost that much again on extra AM bits to tart it up!! .....oh dear.

 

I long ago stopped looking at how much I spend on a model let along on AM extras......... probably out of fear that SHMBO might find out!!   Says the clown who will shortly have 2 1/32nd Viggins in the stash!!!

 

And you're right, I like most of use here would rather spend that sort of money on or addiction rather than Seeing it up against a wall on a Saturday night.

[Gidge]

The set up costs to build the first model are a killer. When your either new to the hobby or lapsed for decades and don't quite know what you need you don't know enough to tell if the advice you're getting is good or bad. So all your purchases are going to be somewhat of a dice role. 

[Ray_W]

8 minutes ago, Gidge said:

So all your purchases are going to be somewhat of a dice role. 

 

That's the truth, not so much in kits but rather the gear, paints, fillers, chemicals I have bought that I do not use. I have now gravitated to a few items that really work for me.

 

As to the Tamiya F-4B, I am really looking forward to getting into this, irrespective of the cost. It's an event. Worth every cent. Like Rich @trickyrich I ending up spending far too much on aftermarket anyway. This time around I am committed to what's in the box, OK I have ordered Danny Cormans DACO book 🙄.

 

Looking forward to that starting gun.

 

Ray  

[trickyrich]

2 hours ago, Ray_W said:

 

That's the truth, not so much in kits but rather the gear, paints, fillers, chemicals I have bought that I do not use. I have now gravitated to a few items that really work for me.

 

As to the Tamiya F-4B, I am really looking forward to getting into this, irrespective of the cost. It's an event. Worth every cent. Like Rich @trickyrich I ending up spending far too much on aftermarket anyway. This time around I am committed to what's in the box, OK I have ordered Danny Cormans DACO book 🙄.

 

Looking forward to that starting gun.

 

Ray  

 

well Ray.....  

 

• they don't supply seatbelts, so you'll need some AM ones
• the wheels.... well they aren't weighted so don't quite look right so some AM ones
• Exhausts are ok....but AM resin ones are always sooo much nicer....

... go on there's some nice AM bits there that will look great on it... plus you have the book!!  

 

[Ray_W]

1 minute ago, trickyrich said:

go on there's some nice AM bits there that will look great on it

Don't tempt me Rich. I made the mistake of looking at the Quinta Studios stuff as linked on The Rumourmonger.  

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/quintamodellingstudio/posts/1455344634822161

 

I will need to be strong. 

 

Ray. 

[trickyrich]

Oh I forgot about the Quinta Studio stuff...and they're doing a set for this one!!!! 

 

Oh dear, I can see some spending coming up!!!! 

 

I mean for such a beautifully detailed model like this one you just have to have the best cockpit upgrade available!!! I bet you succumb!!!  

[Bertie McBoatface]

I read a book about the Battle of Trafalgar the other day. The fleets saw each other in the morning and cleared for battle. Then, all preparations and planning done, they had to wait for hours until the light winds brought them together to combat. They spent the time writing letters, chatting with their mates, checking their kit was all ready, anything to pass the time until the action started.

 

I think this Topic has exactly gone like that. We too are writing/chatting with our mates, checking our kit, waiting for battle to commence!

 

 

 

 

 

[Gidge]

59 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

I read a book about the Battle of Trafalgar the other day. The fleets saw each other in the morning and cleared for battle. Then, all preparations and planning done, they had to wait for hours until the light winds brought them together to combat. They spent the time writing letters, chatting with their mates, checking their kit was all ready, anything to pass the time until the action started.

 

I think this Topic has exactly gone like that. We too are writing/chatting with our mates, checking our kit, waiting for battle to commence!

 

One thing we've been talking about is the price of the Tamiya kit and I've thought a lot about that overnight. I could write reams on the subject but I'd end up in a TLDR situation so I'll restrict myself to one observation. Yesterday I bought a Toblerone ice cream on a stick from the ice cream truck. It was £2.00 and worth every penny as it tasted brilliant. It wasn't food, and I wasn't hungry anyway so it was pure entertainment. It wasn't necessary to my survival in any way. In fact it was slightly damaging as I'm supposed to be on a diet and dairy can give me the runs. Lol! The lolly gave me the most basic sort of physical, pleasure; the taste and temperature and texture were fabulous. It took two minutes to eat. One pound per minute. Sixty pounds per hour. (Yes, I could eat thirty of the little darlings!)

 

You see where I'm headed? The Tamiya kit will occupy me for maybe a hundred hours and will please my senses and my intellect and my emotions. All being well, I'll enjoy the thing in my display cabinet for a year. And I'll have a blast sharing my experiences with it in our GB. And that's why I don't mind the price of modelling so much. Even the high end kits are, to me, great value for money.

 

Please note that I'm not addressing the issue of low priced kits verses high priced ones, just the more straightforward one of the price of our marvellous hobby. 

 

 

 

 

Good analogy. Been motivating me to get my act together and finish my current project.

[Gidge]

Looks like between Quinta and Red Fox it looks like there's a good range of Phantom variants and scales covered in 32 and 48 scale.

 

https://quinta-studio.com/en/category/a/search/?query=F-4

 

https://www.rfstudio.hu/termekek?kategoria=mind&szuro=&kereses=F-4

[trickyrich]

2 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

I read a book about the Battle of Trafalgar the other day. The fleets saw each other in the morning and cleared for battle. Then, all preparations and planning done, they had to wait for hours until the light winds brought them together to combat. They spent the time writing letters, chatting with their mates, checking their kit was all ready, anything to pass the time until the action started.

 

I think this Topic has exactly gone like that. We too are writing/chatting with our mates, checking our kit, waiting for battle to commence!

 

One thing we've been talking about is the price of the Tamiya kit and I've thought a lot about that overnight. I could write reams on the subject but I'd end up in a TLDR situation so I'll restrict myself to one observation. Yesterday I bought a Toblerone ice cream on a stick from the ice cream truck. It was £2.00 and worth every penny as it tasted brilliant. It wasn't food, and I wasn't hungry anyway so it was pure entertainment. It wasn't necessary to my survival in any way. In fact it was slightly damaging as I'm supposed to be on a diet and dairy can give me the runs. Lol! The lolly gave me the most basic sort of physical, pleasure; the taste and temperature and texture were fabulous. It took two minutes to eat. One pound per minute. Sixty pounds per hour. (Yes, I could eat thirty of the little darlings!)

 

You see where I'm headed? The Tamiya kit will occupy me for maybe a hundred hours and will please my senses and my intellect and my emotions. All being well, I'll enjoy the thing in my display cabinet for a year. And I'll have a blast sharing my experiences with it in our GB. And that's why I don't mind the price of modelling so much. Even the high end kits are, to me, great value for money.

 

Please note that I'm not addressing the issue of low priced kits verses high priced ones, just the more straightforward one of the price of our marvellous hobby. 

 

I do actually know what you mean!  Which is prob why I'm spending  small fortune on a pair of 1/32nd Viggens! You are right there is this strange thing that gives us such huge pleasures with so simple things!

 

But it is a shame that in some cases the entry fee for such pleasures is so high for most people! I know there will be a day soo...ish (hopefully not that soon) where I will not be in a position to spend what i do on my addition. In the meantime I tell SHMBO that I'm buy and planning for my retirement when I won't be able to buy as much!   It's working so far....... but I'm bound to be sprung soon!!!! 

[helios16v]

5 hours ago, trickyrich said:

Oh I forgot about the Quinta Studio stuff...and they're doing a set for this one!!!! 

 

Oh dear, I can see some spending coming up!!!! 

 

I mean for such a beautifully detailed model like this one you just have to have the best cockpit upgrade available!!! I bet you succumb!!!  

 

At least most AM comes in smaller boxes making them easier to sneak past the war cabinet......as long as you don't order too much in one swing in your case.  

[helios16v]

I've got a few tempting options, no idea what scale I'm going to settle on.....let alone model.  Current front runners are probably a 72nd JASDF F-4EJ Kai or a 48th USN F-4J.  Still plenty of time to change my mind a couple dozen times though.  

 

But first I need to get the F-100 and pair of F-16s out of the gate...they haven't even been started yet as they are awaiting bench space currently occupied by a Mustang Mk.1a.

[Bertie McBoatface]

I'm happy to report that my new desk has arrived giving me a couple of weeks to populate it with all my 'stuff' before kick off. And the Hasegawa PH-4 has arrived too. I've been so busy with building the desk and other jobs that I haven't even opened the suspiciously small box. Perhaps I will wait until 00.01 on the 21st.

 

 

 

 

 

Hahahahahaha.

[helios16v]

Not a chance.  Curiosity will get the better of you well before then I suspect. 

 

I know boxes don't stay sealed around my place.  Hell, even model boxes don't stay sealed.  Usually first thing I do when a kit arrives is I'll open it, put the decals in a ziploc bag, and check all the clear bits for damage incase I need to contact the seller for replacements (for new kits anyways).  It's a lot easier to deal with that shortly after purchase than it is months (or even years) later.

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, helios16v said:

Curiosity will get the better of you well before then I suspect.

 

Didn't you see me laughing? Of course I've peeped. For a 1990 kit, it looks most impressive. Very fine engraved surface details, thank goodness. (I was afraid it might have raised detail.) Now into the wardrobe with it for three weeks.

[Gene K]

11 hours ago, trickyrich said:

• the wheels.... well they aren't weighted so don't quite look right so some AM ones

Do tires used in high speed, heavy weight carefully controlled carrier crashes ... er, landings, really show bulges?  

 

Here's a quote from a discussion of Phantom tires:

 

Note the considerable pressure differences: for the USN aircraft, the shipboard pressure for the nose gear tyres is 300 psi (350 psi for the F-4J), and 475 psi for the main gear tyres (350 psi for the wider tyres on the F-4J); in comparison, for the F-4C/D/E used by the USAF, the nose gear tyre pressure maxes out at 180 psi, and the main gear tyre pressure maxes out at 280 psi on all USAF F-4 variants and those derived from them (which included the F-4EJ used by the JASDF and the F-4F used by the Federal German Luftwaffe).

 

Considering the high tire pressure in the skinny F-4B tires, I think you can save your money on "weighted tires". 

 

BTW, which AM company offers these?

 

Gene K

 

[helios16v]

35 minutes ago, Gene K said:

Do tires used in high speed, heavy weight carefully controlled carrier crashes ... er, landings, really show bulges?  

 

Here's a quote from a discussion of Phantom tires:

 

 

 

 

Considering the high tire pressure in the skinny F-4B tires, I think you can save your money on "weighted tires". 

 

BTW, which AM company offers these?

 

Gene K

 

 

Part of it will depend if the bird is currently on deployment (on board ship) or back home.  We had different tire pressures when we were onboard ship versus home station.  Running carrier pressure on shore increases the chance of lock up and increased risk of tire explosion in the event of a brake overheat (we utilized nitrogen to reduce the expansion).  We'd pressure them up prior to the flight out the the ship, then would bleed them down before the first flight after returning ashore.  On board the ship the brakes do very little actual stopping...only aircraft movement about the deck, be it hooked to the tractor or taxiing.  But yeah, the bulged effect is significantly reduced on ship deployed A/C.  They are certainly not the drag radials some of the USAF Phantoms looked like they were running at times.

*disclaimer*  My experience is around the EA-6B, but I would be surprised if USN Phantoms had different specs in regards to shipboard vs. land pressures.

[Bertie McBoatface]

In my experience high pressure tyres were/are still flat at the bottom, slightly, but not bulged at the sides. Just file a little flat spot. Easies.

[Retired Bob]

1 hour ago, Gene K said:

BTW, which AM company offers these?

Eduard make a set for the Academy F-4B, I borrowed a set out of an Academy kit to have a look, much nicer than the Tamiya kit wheels and not too bulgy as high pressure tyres/tires should be, nicer wheel hub detail and tyre/tire logos and of course a set of paint masks.   (My 3 kits arrived today, still smiling)

[Retired Bob]

9 hours ago, trickyrich said:

But it is a shame that in some cases the entry fee for such pleasures is so high for most people! I know there will be a day soo...ish (hopefully not that soon) where I will not be in a position to spend what i do on my addition. In the meantime I tell SHMBO that I'm buy and planning for my retirement when I won't be able to buy as much!   It's working so far....... but I'm bound to be sprung soon!!!! 

A word of caution Rich if I may, I did exactly the same, bought loads of kits and AM for my retirement but, while I have a large stash it's funny how it's the new kit that are the ones you want to make and SWMBO then looks at all the kits that you HAD to get for your retirement and seriously questions why you need to buy more kits when you haven't built ALL those other ones.  Just sayin, 

[trickyrich]

come on guys!!! I'm trying to keep the AM market alive here...... and feed my addictions!! 

 

For me kit tyres are like kit exhaust cans, some are good and some well........... Most of the time there is no side wall detail at all and they just never seem to be quite right size wise. Detail issues the same with the exhaust cans. Both of these I replaced on the Tamiya F-14 (will do in the AMK one as well). You spend big money on one of these beasts you want/expect to have the best detail, so things that take it to 11 are a must.

 

The "weighted wheels" comment was more a general one for all models, kit supplied ones 90% of the time are pretty much crap, there are some good. But thrown them beside some nice AM ones and it's chalk & cheese! Even the really good supplied ones are still pretty average...... and don't get me started on those rubbish rubber ones!

 

I haven't gotten up close and personnel yet with the new Tamiya beast..... am trying to resist, but the exhaust cans look better than the F-14's were, the wheels.... I'll have to wait and see. Bang seats are a no brainer here, no seat belts or detail.... just decls! Plus I need the earlier MB Mk.5's for aircraft I'm building, the kit is Mk.7's if i'm not mistaken. The cockpit, I still need to have a good look at, after a quick look over the other day I'd say it could do with some improvement, here the Zoukei-Mura ones a perfect! I used the kit supplied cockpit decals and plenty of decal softener and they'll end up looking like 3D printed ones, they're that good...... as for the rest of the decals, in the F-4E, are crap!

 

Fingers crossed Quinta gets that new F-4B cockpit out intake for this GB!!

 

1 hour ago, Retired Bob said:

A word of caution Rich if I may, I did exactly the same, bought loads of kits and AM for my retirement but, while I have a large stash it's funny how it's the new kit that are the ones you want to make and SWMBO then looks at all the kits that you HAD to get for your retirement and seriously questions why you need to buy more kits when you haven't built ALL those other ones.  Just sayin, 

I sort of know what you mean...... my way around it is I have a small stash cull every so often of old stuff I know I won't build or lost interest in. I get extra brownie points for that........ even though I end up replacing  with more than i parted with! 

[helios16v]

Net gain.  That sounds like a winning plan!