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Another Phantom STGB Chat - Poll open.


DaveJL

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Hi all

I am a newbie that has just returned to modelling after fifty years I have just earned my spurs on a couple of 1/72 phantoms (892 sqdn and  PTF sqdn and now have a couple of British 1/48’s in my stash that I would like to improve my skills on. Group builds are new to me what is involved with a group build ?  Is there a time line for starting and completion ? Is it to late to be included ?

 

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3 hours ago, Greg B said:

You must have the same issue as me…

 

liking it so far, getting to a stage of lots of sub assemblies where the priming can start. About to commence the pylons so you can guess how far in the sub assemblies I am.

So will the 25% rule be in effect?  How is that judged?

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3 hours ago, trickyrich said:

oh well.....you can always buy another one! :D

I have…….

1 hour ago, Gidge said:

So will the 25% rule be in effect?  How is that judged?

I think I’ll be past that. Even with my slow speed.

 

1 hour ago, Tony G said:

Hi all

I am a newbie that has just returned to modelling after fifty years I have just earned my spurs on a couple of 1/72 phantoms (892 sqdn and  PTF sqdn and now have a couple of British 1/48’s in my stash that I would like to improve my skills on. Group builds are new to me what is involved with a group build ?  Is there a time line for starting and completion ? Is it to late to be included ?

 

 

As per the dates at the top, start at midnight, finish by midnight. Rules are pinned up somewhere. ;) Completed kits have a beauty contest.

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Please could I be included in the group build I would be building

1/48 Hasegawa FG1 Phantom - Royal Navy or / and a Revell 1:48 British Phantom FGR 1 / 2  either yellow bird or PTF

Hopefully including fibre optic lighting and reheat.

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43 minutes ago, Tony G said:

Please could I be included in the group build I would be building

1/48 Hasegawa FG1 Phantom - Royal Navy or / and a Revell 1:48 British Phantom FGR 1 / 2  either yellow bird or PTF

Hopefully including fibre optic lighting and reheat.

 you're more than welcome to join the fun.

 

As mentioned, keep an eye out for the start of the GB, then start a thread and join the fun.

 

I love the idea of the fibre optics!!!   That Phantom looks amazing.....awesome job!!! :thumbsup:

 

 

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I might be interested in having a go at this but not being an expert I'll ask the hive mind I'd like to do a 1/48 Vietnam Australian air force job my dad was an RAF armourer and worked on them in Malaysia during the war.

Also what Mr color codes would I need I have Googled the camo colours which I think would be two greens and tan with a grey belly but my search for the greens comes up with the same mr color code.

 

Dave

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10 minutes ago, Bbdave said:

I might be interested in having a go at this but not being an expert I'll ask the hive mind I'd like to do a 1/48 Vietnam Australian air force job my dad was an RAF armourer and worked on them in Malaysia during the war.

Also what Mr color codes would I need I have Googled the camo colours which I think would be two greens and tan with a grey belly but my search for the greens comes up with the same mr color code.

 

Dave

 

Match up using the FS numbers.  The colors are the same as applied to the USAF birds during Vietnam.  I did a search for Mr. Color + the respective FS number and got back different Mr. Color paints (C-303 & C-309 for the greens).

https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-4/f-4_profile02.shtml

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14 minutes ago, helios16v said:

 

Match up using the FS numbers.  The colors are the same as applied to the USAF birds during Vietnam.  I did a search for Mr. Color + the respective FS number and got back different Mr. Color paints (C-303 & C-309 for the greens).

https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-4/f-4_profile02.shtml

Thanks I must a dodgy conversion app. both the fs greens came up with the same green.

 

Dave

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3 hours ago, Bbdave said:

I might be interested in having a go at this but not being an expert I'll ask the hive mind I'd like to do a 1/48 Vietnam Australian air force job my dad was an RAF armourer and worked on them in Malaysia during the war.

Also what Mr color codes would I need I have Googled the camo colours which I think would be two greens and tan with a grey belly but my search for the greens comes up with the same mr color code.

 

Dave

 

Talk to trickyrich. He was working on one. I was looking into doing one recently and did some preliminary research. 

 

The RAAF Phantoms were leased F4-E early production models with standard SEA (South East Asia?) Cammo patterns. Most photos has the early short cannon shroud but some had the later extended one so they must have been upgraded at some point. Their museum example at Point Cook has the updated cannon shroud though it's a different aircraft that was gifted to the museum (no original RAAF Phantoms survive) 

 

There are not that many F4-E kit options out there but there are 3 standout kits in the main 3 scales. 

 

I'd say the Zoukei Mura in 1:48 is your best bet. These kits are the benchmark for long nose Phantoms in any scale (until Tamiya do an E version of their new kit) 

https://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/products/sws48_10_f4e-early.html

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/zoukei-mura-sws48-10-f-4e-phantom-ii--1180315

 

Finemoulds make one in 1:72 that a guy is building somewhere in the WIP threads that also looks nice

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/finemolds-fp41-f-4e-early-vietnam-war--1310486

 

Both of those are made on very recent tooling and are excellent quality. 

 

Tamiya also did one in 1:32 scale based on 90s tooling so it's not made with generationally older technology. But 90s Tamiya kits are still pretty good and the finished builds look pretty nice

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-60310-mcdonnell-douglas-f-4e-phantom-ii--131015

 

Your other challenge is RAAF aftermarket decals. Generally speaking they don't have the best reputation for quality as there's a small market for them. However because the only difference is numbering and roundels you may be smarter to buy paint masks and paint the Australian markings instead.

https://shop.maketar.com/

 

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7 hours ago, Bbdave said:

I might be interested in having a go at this but not being an expert I'll ask the hive mind I'd like to do a 1/48 Vietnam Australian air force job my dad was an RAF armourer and worked on them in Malaysia during the war.

Also what Mr color codes would I need I have Googled the camo colours which I think would be two greens and tan with a grey belly but my search for the greens comes up with the same mr color code.

 

Dave

 

I had actually started one of these for the ANZAC GB, but unfortunately some dodgy ZM decals sort of killed it right towards the end on the build!!  :crying: But I will revive it at a later stage as I so want one in my collection.

 

 

You gotta go 1/48th to do this wonderful beast justice!!! :thumbsup:

 

The ZM kit has everything you need to build an RAAF operated F-4E, from the initial "straight from the factory" aircraft to the ones that were sent back with all the additional modifications that were done.  New seats, kit ones don't have seat belts, and tyres are really the only extras you need for her. Unfortunately a pricy choice and a little bit hard to find.

 

The Hasegawa one would work but i haven't worked out what bits you need to change to make one....well the ones straight from the factory. Plus the kit is getting on a bit so you can throw plenty of AM stuff on her to tart her up nicely.

 

The others in 1/48th.......hmmmm

 

Colour was the standard USAF SEA colours: Tan FS.30219, Medium Green FS.34102, Dark Green FS.34079, with Light Grey FS.36622 undersurfaces. They were only in use for a short time and were in really good condition paint wise.  If using the ZM n=model, the detail is just so nice and fine I'd really recommended using Lacquer based paint to make the most of it! AK's Real Colours does a nice set of the 4 colours, I used them for mine.

 

Markings....hmmm a bit hit-n-miss with quality. The Maketar roundel masks are the way to go, I have a set for the re-furb of mine. The Novascale RAAF F-4E Phantom decals (I have a set of those as well for all the other decals I need, which is not that many for a RAAF bird), are not too bad compared to some of their other releases!! I would avoid the Hawkeye Models ones (I used originally), they're not great quality wise and a right pain to use.

 

I'd ditch the ZM decals for the (ie gazillions of ) stencilling , I'm not the first to have had issues with them, better to get yourself the Speed Hunter Decals  for the Phantom's stencils. The ZM ones "silvered" badly, even on gloss with setting solution, then later just fell off!

 

Stores wise 99% of all the photos out there only show them with drop tanks and AIM-7 Sparrows fitted plus empty Triple Ejector Racks fitted sometimes.

 

Plus this is a great site for info on the aircraft plus some good photos as well.

 

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a69.htm

 

You have to build one...in any scale, a must for any Phantom collection........ not that I'm bias in any way!!! :D Let me know if you need anything else, have squirrelled away lots of useless info! 

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26 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

The ZM ones "silvered" badly, even on gloss with setting solution, then later just fell off!

 

Hi Rich,

I have been using Tamiya Decal Adhesive (Softener Type) of late and been very impressed. It may of actually got those ZM stencils to perform. I have not given it a go with Tamiya decals (which I try to avoid) but will be on my Tamiya F-4B in this GB. I'll do a test run on my next build which will be Tamiya's G-6 with kit markings seeing I am in Bf-109 mode at the moment,

Ray 

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52 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

 

I had actually started one of these for the ANZAC GB, but unfortunately some dodgy ZM decals sort of killed it right towards the end on the build!!  :crying: But I will revive it at a later stage as I so want one in my collection.

 

 

You gotta go 1/48th to do this wonderful beast justice!!! :thumbsup:

 

The ZM kit has everything you need to build an RAAF operated F-4E, from the initial "straight from the factory" aircraft to the ones that were sent back with all the additional modifications that were done.  New seats, kit ones don't have seat belts, and tyres are really the only extras you need for her. Unfortunately a pricy choice and a little bit hard to find.

 

The Hasegawa one would work but i haven't worked out what bits you need to change to make one....well the ones straight from the factory. Plus the kit is getting on a bit so you can throw plenty of AM stuff on her to tart her up nicely.

 

The others in 1/48th.......hmmmm

 

Colour was the standard USAF SEA colours: Tan FS.30219, Medium Green FS.34102, Dark Green FS.34079, with Light Grey FS.36622 undersurfaces. They were only in use for a short time and were in really good condition paint wise.  If using the ZM n=model, the detail is just so nice and fine I'd really recommended using Lacquer based paint to make the most of it! AK's Real Colours does a nice set of the 4 colours, I used them for mine.

 

Markings....hmmm a bit hit-n-miss with quality. The Maketar roundel masks are the way to go, I have a set for the re-furb of mine. The Novascale RAAF F-4E Phantom decals (I have a set of those as well for all the other decals I need, which is not that many for a RAAF bird), are not too bad compared to some of their other releases!! I would avoid the Hawkeye Models ones (I used originally), they're not great quality wise and a right pain to use.

 

I'd ditch the ZM decals for the (ie gazillions of ) stencilling , I'm not the first to have had issues with them, better to get yourself the Speed Hunter Decals  for the Phantom's stencils. The ZM ones "silvered" badly, even on gloss with setting solution, then later just fell off!

 

Stores wise 99% of all the photos out there only show them with drop tanks and AIM-7 Sparrows fitted plus empty Triple Ejector Racks fitted sometimes.

 

Plus this is a great site for info on the aircraft plus some good photos as well.

 

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a69.htm

 

You have to build one...in any scale, a must for any Phantom collection........ not that I'm bias in any way!!! :D Let me know if you need anything else, have squirrelled away lots of useless info! 

 

Thank you, that's a pricey kit I'm not sure if I could do it justice but I guess it is a quality product that goes together well I'll have to have a think specially as there are extras to buy.

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, Bbdave said:

 

Thank you, that's a pricey kit I'm not sure if I could do it justice but I guess it is a quality product that goes together well I'll have to have a think specially as there are extras to buy.

 

Dave

 

That's the wrong way to think. If you don't work on better kits you'll never progress to the point where you can do them justice. If you by cheap poorly made kits you'll value them accordingly and put the appropriate amount of time and effort into them. Working on nice high quality kits THAT YOU VALUE changes your mentality and the amount of effort you put into them. That's how you find the motivation to go the extra mine with the extra time and effort to get the better result. 

Plus better made kits higher quality kits are easier to get better results with. You spend less time fighting the limitations of the kit and manufacturing imperfections which means you have to make less compromises. This means also means less grunt work and more time on the fun parts.


You've got to back yourself! No guts, no glory! If you never push yourself you'll never get there. If there's a really nice kit you want to make, buy it and get stuck in. No worrying about "not being worthy". Believe in yourself and put the work in. That's how you become worthy!

Edited by Gidge
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2 hours ago, Ray_W said:

 

Hi Rich,

I have been using Tamiya Decal Adhesive (Softener Type) of late and been very impressed. It may of actually got those ZM stencils to perform. I have not given it a go with Tamiya decals (which I try to avoid) but will be on my Tamiya F-4B in this GB. I'll do a test run on my next build which will be Tamiya's G-6 with kit markings seeing I am in Bf-109 mode at the moment,

Ray 

I'll have to give it a try Ray, thanks.

 

I think it may have been a bad batch of decals, on a couple of other forums, plus talking with some of my other IPMS club members. They have all mentioned issues exactly the same as I had, with the decals not wanting to adhere and "silvering" once they had dried. It seems everyone has tried different setting solutions. Anything "hot" and the decals would melt! I have had "silvering" occur before and have found a good and successful way to fix it. But not this time. If the clear coat wasn't on they would have almost blown off!

 

The underside is ok...probably because the "silvering" is hidden by the grey!

 

I have another one in the stash (will be converting it to an IAF F-4E(S) Kurnass, so will probably try some of those decals again, as a test.

 

1 hour ago, Bbdave said:

 

Thank you, that's a pricey kit I'm not sure if I could do it justice but I guess it is a quality product that goes together well I'll have to have a think specially as there are extras to buy.

 

Dave

 

I can understand the hesitance when part with that sort of money, anything over $50 and I worry....... I hate to say what I have spent on some of them!! 

 

But @Gidge is right, while the kits can be a lot cheaper and you can pick up skills along the way. To get a finish that really stuns and makes you think "wow I really made that" you do need to start with a good product at the start. If you don't have to worry about hours of filling to correct poorly moulded/engineered parts. Then those hours can be spend refining the finial finish and picking up those tips that take a nice model into something that looks awesome. 

 

The Zoukei-Mura models are very nice (and expensive) but not with their issues as well. I have mentioned (ok complained) in the past that you have to be 100% accurate in where you glue parts, else later on you find things just don't line up of fit (their 1/32nd Ta-152A1 is a perfect example!!! :rant:). Even on the Phantom I came across stuff I wouldn't expect on a model like that

 

Tamiya's F-4, I don't know yet, but if it's like their F-14's, it'll be amazing...but expensive!

 

The Academy versions, I have heard are the best value for money, much newer than the Hasegawa models and much better fitting.

 

Go out and spoil yourself (it doesn't have to be for this build), you will be very surprised and pleased with what you can produce with a nice quality model..... any of the later Tamiya 1/48th models are a dream to build! 

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I'd love to have yet another go at a 'Toom. I've not managed to build a satisfactory (to me) F-4 since childhood, despite several attempts and a long term unrequited love affair with the beastie.

 

How about an F-4G, which was an F-4B with a Carrier Autolanding System built in. In 1966 that must have called for pilots with nerves of whatever is stronger than steel!

 

They were also used to test camouflage over the jungles of N Vietnam and despite the aviators hating the scheme, I think it's rather interesting.

 

y4mblHKrxCzAs17bU1_z0ykJnXaC4Uj1TJdsEle0

 

Photo from Wikipedia, which also appears on this website of the F4-G which may be of interest...

 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/remembering-u-s-navy-f-4g-phantom-perform-automatic-carrier-landings

 

 

Edited by Bertie Psmith
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4 hours ago, Bbdave said:

 

they look fine, ResKit do a nice set of wheels, though they aren't "weighted", Armory or Eduard ones are, I've used both before (as well as ResKit).

 

3 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

I'd love to have yet another go at a 'Toom. I've not managed to build a satisfactory (to me) F-4 since childhood, despite several attempts and a long term unrequited love affair with the beastie.

 

How about an F-4G, which was an F-4B with a Carrier Autolanding System built in. In 1966 that must have called for pilots with nerves of whatever is stronger than steel!

 

They were also used to test camouflage over the jungles of N Vietnam and despite the aviators hating the scheme, I think it's rather interesting.

 

y4mblHKrxCzAs17bU1_z0ykJnXaC4Uj1TJdsEle0

 

Photo from Wikipedia, which also appears on this website of the F4-G which may be of interest...

 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/remembering-u-s-navy-f-4g-phantom-perform-automatic-carrier-landings

 

 

 

Nice!!!  :thumbsup: I've seen that scheme before have have the decal set for all these schemes,

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363262128262?hash=item54941c3086:g:U0EAAOSwexpgBE~J

 

I've done an 1/48th resin RA-5C Vigilante (now that was a tough build) in one of these schemes.

 

IMG_1609-M.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gidge said:

 

Talk to trickyrich. He was working on one. I was looking into doing one recently and did some preliminary research. 

 

The RAAF Phantoms were leased F4-E early production models with standard SEA (South East Asia?) Cammo patterns. Most photos has the early short cannon shroud but some had the later extended one so they must have been upgraded at some point. Their museum example at Point Cook has the updated cannon shroud though it's a different aircraft that was gifted to the museum (no original RAAF Phantoms survive) 

 

There are not that many F4-E kit options out there but there are 3 standout kits in the main 3 scales. 

 

I'd say the Zoukei Mura in 1:48 is your best bet. These kits are the benchmark for long nose Phantoms in any scale (until Tamiya do an E version of their new kit) 

https://www.zoukeimura.co.jp/en/products/sws48_10_f4e-early.html

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/zoukei-mura-sws48-10-f-4e-phantom-ii--1180315

 

Finemoulds make one in 1:72 that a guy is building somewhere in the WIP threads that also looks nice

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/finemolds-fp41-f-4e-early-vietnam-war--1310486

 

Both of those are made on very recent tooling and are excellent quality. 

 

Tamiya also did one in 1:32 scale based on 90s tooling so it's not made with generationally older technology. But 90s Tamiya kits are still pretty good and the finished builds look pretty nice

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-60310-mcdonnell-douglas-f-4e-phantom-ii--131015

 

Your other challenge is RAAF aftermarket decals. Generally speaking they don't have the best reputation for quality as there's a small market for them. However because the only difference is numbering and roundels you may be smarter to buy paint masks and paint the Australian markings instead.

https://shop.maketar.com/

 

I built the Esci kit in RAAF markings last year in RAAF markings using Hawkeye decals and they were great. The Aussie Decals can be average as the sheet is basic.

 

49062992483_13855310b7_b.jpg

 

There is also the Italeri  (Ecsi moulds) 1/48 kit that comes with nice RAAF decals as well

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On 7/21/2021 at 2:32 PM, trickyrich said:

 

Nice!!!  :thumbsup: I've seen that scheme before have have the decal set for all these schemes,

 

 

Mine arrived today. I've only gone and ordered the 1/72 sheet. Grrrrr! 

Oh well, I was considering a switch to that scale for some larger aircraft anyway

and I have no room for a 1/48 Viigilante which looks too nice not to do

and one can't have too many quality decals...

 

I'm still set on doing the new Tamiya 1/48 Phantom in the GB though. It looks phabulous.

Edited by Bertie Psmith
Afterthoughts plague me.
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I would like to take part in this Group Build please, I still have memories of my attempting to complete an F-4C in 111 FIS markings in the last Phantom GB years ago. Somewhere in the stash I have the Revell 1/32nd F-4E kit of the early 90's, I got it from a liquidation store in the USA for about $10 USD! It has decals for the New Jersey ANG with the Rhino markings on the nose and I would love to build it as a QF-4E target drone with the glossy red tail and panels over a very weathered Hill Gray camouflage scheme. The downside is that I would be building OOB and don't have the QF-4E modifications available. Still, four weeks to go which is enough time for me to change my mind at least 28 times 😉

 

Michael

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6 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

and I have no room for a 1/48 Viigilante which looks too nice not to do

 ...and with that one statement you've saved yourself from a world of pain/:poop:!!! That Trumpeter RA-5C has to be one of their biggest piles of poop around.....a close tie is their Su-24......don't talk to me about THAT model!!!

 

Their Vigilante, nothing fits properly and it's wrong all over the place. Mine is the old Collect-Are resin model, it was hard work (made more so by me fitting a full resin cockpit and wheel wells!) but even after that it's still a better and simpler model to build!

 

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On 7/24/2021 at 4:57 PM, Bertie Psmith said:

 

Mine arrived today. I've only gone and ordered the 1/72 sheet. Grrrrr! 

Oh well, I was considering a switch to that scale for some larger aircraft anyway

and I have no room for a 1/48 Vigilante which looks too nice not to do

and one can't have too many quality decals...

 

I'm still set on doing the new Tamiya 1/48 Phantom in the GB though. It looks phabulous.

 

Ok then, so now I have this decal sheet in both scales. It would be a shame to waste that money, wouldn't it? That would be totally illogical, no? There's something totally illogical going on here because I just found an ancient Hasegawa F-4B on a well known auction site and bought it without a second's thought. (When I have a little money, I buy kits; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes...)

 

This will give me TWO Phantoms to build in very similar (and easy) schemes. That won't be as boring as it sounds because if all goes to plan and they both arrive on time, I'll be able to do a day's work on each of them in turn and compare my experience of the two scales - not having made anything in 1/72 since about the time this kit was tooled - 1982.  And I can compare the old and new models. At least this plan gives me plenty to write about to distract the viewers' attention from my shoddy model making processes. 

Edited by Bertie Psmith
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