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Doggy

Is there a definite RLM brand?

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So I'm starting another revell focke wulf and I'm short of a few rlm colours. I need 70, 81 and 83.

 

After looking these colours up on Google there seems to be loads of opinions and version of the paint colours.

 

Can anyone recommend a decent option?

 

Thanks

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I use Gunze Mr. Color because I like working with it, the color matches are good IMHO, and it's easier to obtain in the USA.

 

There are at least two versions of 81. Also, are you talking about 83 (so called), the dark olive green, quite similar to 71, or possibly 82 the light, bright green? Colourcoats doesn't appear to produce RLM 83.

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I have a supply of Aeromaster, Model Master, Humbrol, Xtracolour and Colorcoats - all enamels.  I've supplemented it with Tamiya's paints - enamel, acrylic and lacquer.

 

I'd like to go exclusively with Colorcoats, but they are difficult to get in North America, Canada particularly.

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17 minutes ago, Doggy said:

Are colourcoats enamel paints?

They are but they are not like enamels of old that took weeks to dry, I painted a cockpit of a 1/48 Hellcat with them yesterday and by the time I'd finished spraying the last part the first parts were already touch dry, about 10 minutes in total. That was using their own brand of thinners but I have also used Mr Thinner with them and had similar results (which is handy if you are like me and have a lot of Tamiya and Gunze paints already).

 

Duncan B

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Posted (edited)

Hi, Doggy,

 

You are in Scotland? Get Xtracolour from hannants. Overall very solid in colour accuracy, though occasionally one or two might be off. Do not go for Model Master on any account (especially the 70/71 combo). Aeromaster also has some glaring mistakes (i.e. RLM74) Both brands are very good on FS colours, though.

 

I have used the old WEMM (not the new Sovereign) and I find them too colour saturated and dark. However the hue was ok.

 

I also use Xtracrylix gloss varnish. It is user friendly enough to go by brush. As an acrylic, it also protects the paintwork from any effects and washes applied afterwards. Matte it back with an artist's matt acrylic varnish.

 

Of course, everyone has his preferences! that's called "diversity".

 

Fernando

 

Fernando.

Edited by Fernando

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20 hours ago, Fernando said:

 

 

I have used the old WEMM (not the new Sovereign) and I find them too colour saturated and dark. However the hue was ok.

 

 

Sovereign Hobbies have updated most of the colours in their range using the latest research so I'm not sure they can be directly compared to the old Colourcoats produced by WEMM.

 

Duncan B

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The problem with colour Cotes is the delivery, they only post on Tuesday and Wednesday and the postage rates are excessive I think.

 

I live near a Hobbycraft and they stock revell, humbrol and tamiya, not perfect but if I'm in a hurry I can get something from there.

 

I'm not a historian so I'm not really that fussed about perfect paint matches, after all the photos taken are black and white and the paint changed through the war.

 

Cheers

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2 hours ago, Doggy said:

The problem with colour Cotes is the delivery, they only post on Tuesday and Wednesday and the postage rates are excessive I think.

That's not their fault though, the cost of shipping flammable liquids isn't cheap, I usually wait till I want to make a big order which is a pain sometimes if you just want one or two colours quickly, like you say this is where the local Hobbycraft comes in.

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Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

 

 

 

It costs me £13 every paint-containing package we send, and we charge £6.50 with a minimum order of 6 so I just break even.

 

We used to charge £10 and hope people would self-regulate their order size, but I got too many accusations of profiteering written in a manner that frankly the majority of the modelling community could only dream of having the gentleman-parts to say to someone's face, and probably then only with an impressive blade in their hand. So I changed it.

 

Now we just get compared to the postage rates of businesses who post flammable liquids illegally and are risking large fines of caught doing it without anything actually going wrong, or possibly prison time should one of their consignments end up implicated in an air cargo incident (RM uses aircraft for city-to-city hub transfer). Unfortunately I hold a senior management position in a multinational engineering company with a professional reputation and the need to be perceived as a safety culture role-model to uphold and support a wife and two children. My appetite for a criminal record over illegal postage of paints for peoples' pass-times is precisely zero - so in a way the postage and minimum order helps coarse filter customers for me. It seems to work because I like the customers I have :D

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Bravo, Jamie. Great response. There are too many modelers who believe that vendors such as yourself make money off of postage charges.

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I don't think he's making money from postage, I thought the courier he was using were excessive, plus I don't like the Royal mail. In fairness I wasn't aware of the flammable issue.

 

And like Jamie says, his business models filters out certain people, so it suits him.

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5 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

There are too many modelers who believe that vendors such as yourself make money off of postage charges.

Sadly, this happens too often - advertise an item at a "bargain" price, and recoup the loss in postage fees. As modellers we should do all what we can to put these guys out of business by not buying from them. It is not difficult to work out what a reasonable postage fee should be, so don't be scammed!

 

With regards to the cost of postage from Sovereign Hobbies - worst case is a "premium" of £1.08 per tin. If I go to my local hobby shop a tin of paint will cost me nothing in postage, but it will cost me a minimum of £1.50 for parking plus maybe another £1 or so for fuel (don't bother mentioning public transport!) which makes buying a tin of paint very expensive.  Of course, the answer is to think ahead and buy in bulk to reduce the "premium" - and this applies both to bricks & mortar and online shopping. 

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

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16 hours ago, Doggy said:

The problem with colour Cotes is the delivery, they only post on Tuesday and Wednesday and the postage rates are excessive I think.

 

This place posts 6 days a week with no silly minimum order. On top of that you get to use what I believe  is the best paint, MRP, on the market at the moment.

https://www.hmhobbies.co.uk/

They provide first class service as well.

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19 minutes ago, tank152 said:

This place posts 6 days a week with no silly minimum order.

Ironically, when I looked just now all orders are delayed a week! But seriously, I have no issue with hmhobbies - I've used them in the past. But I would point out a couple of things:

 

1 - single jar of paint can be bought, true, at a postage cost of £4.50! A very expensive jar of paint.

2 - as I read it (but I may be wrong) the postage restrictions apply to enamel paint - hmhobbies sell acrylics. Out of curiosity, I added some thinners to the basket, and low and behold, the postage for that was £6.99

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

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14 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Unfortunately I hold a senior management position in a multinational engineering company with a professional reputation and the need to be perceived as a safety culture role-model to uphold and support a wife and two children. My appetite for a criminal record over illegal postage of paints for peoples' pass-times is precisely zero - so in a way the postage and minimum order helps coarse filter customers for me. It seems to work because I like the customers I have :D

Adding this to 'Epic Online Responses', a book I intend to self-publish one day 😂😂😂

 

Nice one Jamie 👍

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On 12/03/2020 at 18:12, Doggy said:

I live near a Hobbycraft and they stock revell, humbrol and tamiya, not perfect but if I'm in a hurry I can get something from there.

this may help

 

this attempts to assign some Revell paints to RLM colours

 

You can buy a paint chip chart here (not printed, paint chips) 

http://www.crecy.co.uk/luftwaffe-colours-1935-1945-paint-chip-chart

 

which is the way forward if you want to check hobby paints and you have good colour vision

 

 

Quote

 

I'm not a historian so I'm not really that fussed about perfect paint matches, after all the photos taken are black and white and the paint changed through the war.

Not all the photos are B/W, and while there are variations,  subsequent research does things like find paint formulas and make paint to that specification.   

While it does get rather anoraky,  there are some answers available that are extremely  well researched if you take the time.

 

 

examples,  the JaPo books on the Fw190D mentioned by @Graham Boak, which are jaw dropping,  they have pinned down as best as possible what each sub contracted batch (Fw190D were built by Focke Wulf, Arado, Gotha and other companies)  were painted in, which was  a massive amount of work from looking at photos. 

 

Bf109G-6,  were built by 3 factories, each with a distinctive style of camouflage pattern application.  Once you know what you are looking for, it becomes obvious.

see http://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com/2013/10/chosing-correct-wingpattern-for-bf109g-6.html

 

later 109 batches have distinctive camo schemes, tied into specfic werk nummers and factories.  

 

But this kind of research is ongoing and is not widely known unless you want to buy expensive and very specialist books,  that then go out of print and get even harder to get. 

The other factor is more and more photos surface, ebay Germany has been turning up massive amounts of private photos,  which add the the body of knowledge.

 

You can take a short cut and ask here,  and get potted versions of the research as answers.    Sometimes there is not a neat answer.  

 

My final point is this, if members take the time to answer your questions, even if gets a way too detailed answer, say thanks,  this forum has an exceptionally good knowledge base, we have a few members who do actually write THE books on the subject,  and as such you will be hard pressed to get better responses.

 

HTH

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Mr Paint is lovely paint, I use it a lot. Some of the RLM colours are a bit off compared with the most widely accepted paint chips and their RLM 75/74 looks more like 83/74 on my builds anyway. This is Mr Paints RLM 74/75/76 and the green looks more like one of the 8x series colours to me.

IMG_5053-M.jpg

 

Mr Paint is a lacquer based acrylic and is labelled as flammable liquid, check the bottle for the warning. My understanding is that any Business sending this through the Royal Mail regular Postal service without complying with the Regulations is breaking the Law, just saying.

IMG_6686_heic-M.jpg

 

Duncan B

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19 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

Mr Paint is lovely paint, I use it a lot. Some of the RLM colours are a bit off compared with the most widely accepted paint chips and their RLM 75/74 looks more like 83/74 on my builds anyway. This is Mr Paints RLM 74/75/76 and the green looks more like one of the 8x series colours to me.

 

 

Mr Paint is a lacquer based acrylic and is labelled as flammable liquid, check the bottle for the warning. My understanding is that any Business sending this through the Royal Mail regular Postal service without complying with the Regulations is breaking the Law, just saying.

Duncan B

Must say that more colors are off the middle stone is more a light stone and doesn’t even compare with the paint chips I have from the raf museum..

The dark earth is a tad to brown the humbrol is for instance exact.

Nevertheless that said the paint sprays lovely and if possible I use it...

Still find the Humbrol pretty good for RLM colors.

 

 

cheers, Jan

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4 hours ago, Duncan B said:

Mr Paint is lovely paint, I use it a lot. Some of the RLM colours are a bit off compared with the most widely accepted paint chips and their RLM 75/74 looks more like 83/74 

Personally I think MRP RLM74 is pretty much spot on comparing it to all my paint chips and I think i've got virtually all the available ones. It should have a greenish tinge to it. Mr Color is certainly off as its just a dark grey.

The only MRP RLM colour that I find off is their 04 for that I like AK's RC RLM04.

MRP is superb stuff, the way it was flying off that trader's stand  who was at Telford i'm not the only one who thinks it, he could barely keep up replenishing the racks he was telling me. 🙂

 

 

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