Spitfire Vb interesting photo

[72modeler]

This was an interesting find; I think it's one of the VCS-7 Spitfire Mk Vb's used by them to spot gunfire  during Operation Overlord- they swapped their OS2U Kingfishers for them during the operation. I know there are other photos of their Spits- one being '4Q' that had a small swastika behind the entry door. What was interesting to me were the 6-stack exhausts; my question being- was this a Mk Vb with Mk IX exhausts or a Seafire II? (I have read that a mixture of Mk Vb's and Seafire II's were used.) Just curious! Unfortunately, the 2nd letter of the '4x' code is obscured and of course, no serial is given in the photo caption. I did find an article on the Spitfire website  that stated that this Spitfire was a Vc, but hard to tell by the photo, I would think; I have posted a  link to that article below.

Mike

 

https://defensemaven.io/warriormaven/history/america-s-spitfires-of-world-war-ii-abFeEtvGZ0qFMw8ahm6lxQ 

 

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfires-of-the-us-navy.html

Edited March 5, 2020 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[Wez]

I'd say that was a Spitfire Vb, there's no reinforcing cap over the longeron half-way up the fuselage (running under the door),  like there would be for a Seafire.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Wez

[Seahawk]

To my eye the small visible fragment of the 2nd element of the code shows a diagonal descending from top right to join a horizontal bottom stroke (let's see if that gets past the filters!).  I think I'm right in saying that the only character that meets those criteria is Z so I vote for "4Z".

 

A small select US publisher brought out a slim volume on VCS Spitfires: someone on here may have it.

 

[Edit: think the publisher was Phalanx: among their other titles were ones on "fantail fighters" and USMC Mitchells, both by Jerry Scutts.]

Edited March 4, 2020 by Seahawk

[Jackson Duvalier]

Fundekals include markings for a VCS Spit on their big sheet of Spitfire transfers.

[Dan_RAFBC]

On 04/03/2020 at 21:55, 72modeler said:

'4x' code

Definately 4Z

 

Found this, not sure of any source but could be the actual serial? __578

[tonyot]

4Z is a Spitfire Mk.Vb,..... the 6 stub exhausts were becoming more common on the `early' Spit`s by 1944, especially the low level optimised aircraft. The above artwork looks like it is from one of the Ventura books,..... maybe one of the Stars and Stripes Spits volumes?

 

Cheers

            Tony

[Ed Russell]

The profile is from the Ventura book American Spitfire Camouflage and Markings Part 1. It is noted that the serial is "provisional" and there is no other documentations of VCS-7 serials in the book. There is a list somewhere............ 4G is apparently BL729. Its history vaguely suggests this may be so.

History:

9MU 5-2-42 222S 26-5-42 242S 'LE-V' 11-8-42 93S 23-9-42 340S 28-9-42 485S 11-11-42 Scottish Aviation 28-2-44 USAAF 9-5-44 1654CU 30-11-44 SOC 8-9-45

[Grey Beema]

I’m going to build a Fleet Air Arm Seafire MkIII NN341/3A (?) as part of the Spitfire / Seafire GB, which was used by 886 Naval Air Squadron, Lee-on-the-Solent as part of the D-Day Fleet fire spotter pool.

 

On 07.06.44 1735 the aircraft was used by Lt RM Crowley, who whilst spotting for HMS Warspite, destroyed a Bf109, 15 miles SW Caen / 5m S Evrecy.

 

 

[dogsbody]

I just found this while looking through stuff on my 'puter. I really need to go through it and organize/label items better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[72modeler]

Here's some more information on the VCS-7 Spitfires. I did read in one internet source that the VCS-7 Mk Vb that displayed the swastika kill marking behind the canopy was left over from the RAF Spitfire drawn for VCS-7 use. A shame we can't match known serials to known VCS-7 coded Spitfires.  I also found information to the effect that Spitfire Mk Vb's, Seafire II's, and Mustang I's and Ia's were used as spotters by the five RAF/FAA squadrons that participated, but VCS-7's aircraft were all Mk Vb's.

Mike

 

https://www.asisbiz.com/RAF/USN-VCS-7.html

 

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Spitfire/USN-VCS-7.html

 

 

[Seahawk]

Good article from Andrew Thomas, and a handy list of serials.   I note that, while at the end he says there are no confirmed correlations of codes to serial, in the text he does suggest 4G was BL729.

[melvyn hiscock]

It is a slight shame that all the information that is easy to find refers to the American Spitfires when FAA and RAF units were just as busy. The totally appalling (in my opinion) D Day museum in Portsmouth also fails to mention Lee on Solent was the busiest airfield in the world in D Day, with the spotters covering the beaches from early in the morning. Mind you, they also pretty well completely fail to mention the actual bombardment the Spitfires, Seafires and P51s were covering too. There is one small mention on a wall, but otherwise the complete allied fleet and the 180,000 men in them that allowed the troops to get ashore are not mentioned, including my dad! - edited out of his own home city’s museum. 

 

I would like to model one of the FAA aircraft but finding information has not been easy.  

 

I did once see a small booklet published about the Fleet Air Arm operations but now cannot remember where I saw it.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Thanks Mike @72modeler now I want to build one of these... 🧐There is the Spitfire Group build coming up soon. And I have a Mk.Vb but that was slated for a Robert Tuck build ? Maybe i can snag a cheap Mk.V from a hobby shop ? 
 

Dennis

[Coors54]

Nice hard edged camouflage on 4X isn't it? The ID stripes are also "fairly" neat, hard to do on a model without looking like a bad paint job. Your mind expects crisp stripes.

 

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 6:27 PM, Grey Beema said:

I’m going to build a Fleet Air Arm Seafire MkIII NN341/3A (?) as part of the Spitfire / Seafire GB, which was used by 886 Naval Air Squadron, Lee-on-the-Solent as part of the D-Day Fleet fire spotter pool.

 

On 07.06.44 1735 the aircraft was used by Lt RM Crowley, who whilst spotting for HMS Warspite, destroyed a Bf109, 15 miles SW Caen / 5m S Evrecy.

I did a 1/24 conversion of the Trumpeter Spitfire into this aircraft, I did an article for IPMS magazine about 5 years ago and I'm not sure I have an pictures of it to hand. It was a marathon for sure.

Just don't follow some of the profiles for this aircraft which show a primer coloured tail, this (if) it happened was long after D-Day when the aircraft suffered a heavy tail first landing whist with a training squadron.

The aircraft were new when 886 NAS had them, Mike Crossley's book "They Gave Me a Seafire" has a chapter about this period with lots of interesting details.

 

Dave

[Greenshirt]

On 3/10/2020 at 3:43 PM, Coors54 said:

The ID stripes are also "fairly" neat, hard to do on a model without looking like a bad paint job. Your mind expects crisp stripes.

When I did 4Q many years ago I based It on the photo in the article reproduced in this thread. I airbrushed the basic camo but the stripes I painted using the old hairy stick. It was just rough enough that it looked right. 

[GordonM]

On 3/10/2020 at 1:29 PM, melvyn hiscock said:

It is a slight shame that all the information that is easy to find refers to the American Spitfires when FAA and RAF units were just as busy. The totally appalling (in my opinion) D Day museum in Portsmouth also fails to mention Lee on Solent was the busiest airfield in the world in D Day, with the spotters covering the beaches from early in the morning. Mind you, they also pretty well completely fail to mention the actual bombardment the Spitfires, Seafires and P51s were covering too. There is one small mention on a wall, but otherwise the complete allied fleet and the 180,000 men in them that allowed the troops to get ashore are not mentioned, including my dad! - edited out of his own home city’s museum. 

 

I would like to model one of the FAA aircraft but finding information has not been easy.  

 

I did once see a small booklet published about the Fleet Air Arm operations but now cannot remember where I saw it.

I got into an increasingly heated discussion there when I commented that my late father who served in the Royal Corps Of Signals landed on Omaha Beach on D Day as part of 11 Air Formation Signals, a formation that the US forces didn’t have an equivalent of. It culminated in the member of staff I spoke to telling me my father was obviously a liar!

[melvyn hiscock]

1 hour ago, GordonM said:

I got into an increasingly heated discussion there when I commented that my late father who served in the Royal Corps Of Signals landed on Omaha Beach on D Day as part of 11 Air Formation Signals, a formation that the US forces didn’t have an equivalent of. It culminated in the member of staff I spoke to telling me my father was obviously a liar!

Oh don’t worry, he’s completely written out of the story now.....

[GordonM]

31 minutes ago, melvyn hiscock said:

Oh don’t worry, he’s completely written out of the story now.....

Luckily not at the Royal Signals Museum at Blandford Forum who knew all about AFS,

[whiskey]

This is an awesome example of the historical research you guys go through! Just snagged an Airfix Mk Vb for $10 USD. I would love to do a unique Spit like the one mentioned above with the 109 kill. Keep the info coming, love reading this stuff.

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, whiskey said:

This is an awesome example of the historical research you guys go through! Just snagged an Airfix Mk Vb for $10 USD. I would love to do a unique Spit like the one mentioned above with the 109 kill. Keep the info coming, love reading this stuff.

Zach,

 

The next time you're at King's, tell Rudy and the gang that the boys from Alamo Squadron IPMS said howdy!

Mike

[whiskey]

@72modeler

 

Will do. I was just there Friday and Saturday picking some stuff up. They are closed except through appointments these days but still making it through. Most of their business is conducted through eBay now, even the consignment sales.

[Grey Beema]

On 3/10/2020 at 7:43 PM, Coors54 said:

Just don't follow some of the profiles for this aircraft which show a primer coloured tail, this (if) it happened was long after D-Day when the aircraft suffered a heavy tail first landing whist with a training squadron.

The aircraft were new when 886 NAS had them, Mike Crossley's book "They Gave Me a Seafire" has a chapter about this period with lots of interesting details.

 

Dave

Seafire III NN341/3A wasn’t the Seafire with the interior green tail as far as I’m aware.  I identified it through Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945 and confirmed through the Spitfire registry (I don’t trust kit markings).  For the record Crowley describes his aircraft as having clipped wings (which attracted the attention of RAF Spitfires defending the beachhead) and as having a 25 gallon slipper tank (They Gave me a Seafire).  All features which will go into my model..

[72modeler]

22 hours ago, whiskey said:

@72modeler

 

Will do. I was just there Friday and Saturday picking some stuff up. They are closed except through appointments these days but still making it through. Most of their business is conducted through eBay now, even the consignment sales.

Thanks! We always made a pilgrimage to Kings' at least twice a year, especially during the annual ASMS contest. Tell them BR, Bob, and Mike are thinking about them. Best LHS in Texas!

Mike