RAF FE8, Scaleplanes 1:72 vac

[Joe M]

Hi Ian,

I have the pop corn out and a couple of beers to watch this build in detail.

I do have one or two vacforms in the attic insulation / stash so may be tempted to pull one of them out.

Can you go over the way that you get the under surface for the wings and tail to actually look like the surface or the wings and tail. You kinda lost me there.

Cheers

Joe M

Stick & String Rule O.K.

[Brandy]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:32 AM, Joe M said:

Can you go over the way that you get the under surface for the wings and tail to actually look like the surface or the wings and tail. You kinda lost me there.

Hi Joe, Normally I don't do anything other than remove all signs of the moulding process by sanding, as that leaves a negative of the upper surface but with much less definition. In this case however the plastic was very thin so I added Milliput to the undersurfaces to thicken them up and give the correct profile. Early aircraft wings were very thin as you know, and with the two vacs I built previously there was no need to skin the undersides. Thin plastic sheet could also be an option instead of using Milliput if they do need thickening up. Some vacs even provide separate upper and lower surfaces for the wings although not usually with the smaller WWI subjects.

I also removed all moulded detail from the upper surfaces, and that will be replaced by painting, as on the undersides.

Hope that helps,

 

Ian

[Brandy]

Well I think I've sorted the soldering problem. I turned it on again today and.....nothing. It's totally dead. Less than 2 weeks old and used twice. Bu**er. The warranty is only good in the US so I guess I'll have to fork out for another one. It certainly won't be this one  again!

 

So back to the old iron and I put together the rudder bar and control column, then gave it all a quick blast of paint, including some grey on the inside of the nacelle to give me an idea of where any further attention might be needed. It doesn't look too bad but I'll clean it up a little more anyway.

 

 

 

I also put together a PE seat and added some plastic strip to the bottom which will be shaped when it's dry to position it correctly.

 

 

Thanks for looking in!

 

Ian

[pheonix]

That looks very good Ian. I have never thought of making the internal structure of my scratch builds in this scale from brass rod - much stronger than plastic rod of course. Hhmmm you have set me thinking - must put that idea away somewhere.

[Marklo]

17 minutes ago, pheonix said:

 

That looks very good Ian. I have never thought of making the internal structure of my scratch builds in this scale from brass rod

 

Ditto. But I bought a gas soldering Iron last week and have lots of fine gauge brass and copper rod. My first project will be to make a new undercarriage for my HP O/400 from .5mm brass, as the kit one looks terribly fragile.

[Brandy]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:26 PM, pheonix said:

That looks very good Ian. I have never thought of making the internal structure of my scratch builds in this scale from brass rod - much stronger than plastic rod of course. Hhmmm you have set me thinking - must put that idea away somewhere.

I thought it would be easier to shape than plastic. Due to the curve at the front end, the brass stays put once it's bent instead of me having to worry about the plastic constantly springing back. Plus I wanted strength for the spars. I did think about soldering on the cabane struts too, but concluded it was just too much work.

On 3/21/2020 at 9:45 PM, Marklo said:

Ditto. But I bought a gas soldering Iron last week and have lots of fine gauge brass and copper rod. My first project will be to make a new undercarriage for my HP O/400 from .5mm brass, as the kit one looks terribly fragile.

That sounds like a good plan, the kit one does look rather frail. I usually use bent brass rod with plastic strip CAd on for the fairings.

 

A little more progress today as I am now forced to stay at home for at least 2 weeks as I'm sure are most others. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to work from home so we have to use up our vacation time. Still, at least that means I'm being paid so it could be worse!

 

I spent this afternoon adding the rest of the interior framework using .020" x .030" strip and .015" dia rod. I had originally done the side frames with .010" x .020" strip but it looked out of scale so I pulled it all out and did it again. I think it was worth the effort!

 

 

and fortunately everything seems to fit!

 

 

so it all got another coat of grey.

 

 

The seat also got it's base coat of CDL so text job for tomorrow will be to add the CDL to the framework and panel behind the pilot ready for the wood painting. I'm not looking forward to painting those tiny frames but I did get myself some decent small detail brushes at Telford last year so it should be easier than previously!

 

Have a good night all! Stay safe and thanks for looking in.

 

Ian

[keefr22]

Flippin' 'eck Ian that's small - cracking micro-engineering going on there!

 

Keith

[pheonix]

Excellent soldering and internal details Ian. With enforced holiday you should be able to get on with this one quickly.

 

Now we are locked in in the UK I should be doing the same...

 

P

[Joe M]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 5:50 AM, limeypilot said:

Hi Joe, Normally I don't do anything other than remove all signs of the moulding process by sanding, as that leaves a negative of the upper surface but with much less definition. In this case however the plastic was very thin so I added Milliput to the undersurfaces to thicken them up and give the correct profile. Early aircraft wings were very thin as you know, and with the two vacs I built previously there was no need to skin the undersides. Thin plastic sheet could also be an option instead of using Milliput if they do need thickening up. Some vacs even provide separate upper and lower surfaces for the wings although not usually with the smaller WWI subjects.

I also removed all moulded detail from the upper surfaces, and that will be replaced by painting, as on the undersides.

Hope that helps,

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

Many thanks for the info. I did start a Vac-form nearly 50 years ago when I was but a pup but gave it up for a bad job. I still have a Formaplane Halberstadt CL.II and a BE2c in the stash and I probably have enough Aeroclub parts to assist in the make. But I ask myself why when Airfix have a lovely BE 2 kit out and I also have one from Meikraft and Pegasus have a good Halberstadt CL.II in 1:72 as well.

Yet still .........................

Looking forward to the rest of the build.

Cheers

Joe M

Stick & String Rule O.K.

[Marklo]

I definitely built the Halberstadt when just a pup myself. It’s a lovely plane. But yes if there’s an injection molded kit out there, you’re probably better to sell them on eBay and buy the two kits.

 

The Airfix BE is a lovely kit btw it even comes with jigs for assembling the Struts and upper wing. ( I also have the Roden BE 12 in the stash, I’m currently reading a biography of Albert Ball, who started on BEs and recounts test flying a BE12( he hated it btw) and I’m very tempted to dust it off, but I think I better finish a few more builds first) 

 

Actually the more I think of it I reckon I better paint my study and assemble my new Ikea cabinet first to have somewhere to put the builds  Probably a good thing to occupy the endless hours of shut in at the moment:) 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Marklo

[Brandy]

I just had a quick count of my "models available" spreadsheet and I have at least 44 vacs, including a BE2a and a BE2c conversion to BE12. I far prefer the vacs to injected kits but it's nice to do both!

 

I got a bit more done today on the interior. Paint all done now,

 

Step 1 for the woodwork was the CDL coat,

Step 2 was a "wash" of acrylic "leather"

Step 3 a coat of Tamiya clear orange.

 

Job done!

I know I took pics of each stage but my phone appears to have been hungry today so there's only one left

 

 

After that it was time to start putting it all together, including the PE seatbelts.

 

 

Sorry for the dearth of pics, I'll try to remember to feed the phone tomorrow morning! So tomorrow's tasks are to add the control cables in the cockpit, including something in the back to stick the exterior ones to when the time comes, add a couple of rudimentary instruments, then stick the halves together. 

 

Stay safe, and thanks for looking in!

 

Ian

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by limeypilot

[hendie]

the quality of the workmanship belies the diminutive nature of this beast

[Massimo]

Exellent work on the cockpit, Ian!!!

Love it sofar!!!

[pheonix]

As Hendie has written, this is a really tiny nacelle and the details that you have put in a incredible.

 

P

[CedB]

Great stuff Ian - love the wood effect  

 

Tiny too - I share your pain!

[Brandy]

22 hours ago, hendie said:

the quality of the workmanship belies the diminutive nature of this beast

Thanks Hendie, praise indeed!

 

22 hours ago, Massimo said:

Exellent work on the cockpit, Ian!!!

Love it sofar!!!

Cheers Massimo, I hope you and yours are staying out of trouble over there!

 

22 hours ago, pheonix said:

As Hendie has written, this is a really tiny nacelle and the details that you have put in a incredible.

 

P

Thanks P!

21 hours ago, CedB said:

Great stuff Ian - love the wood effect  

 

Tiny too - I share your pain!

Thanks Ced, it most certainly is tiny, but looks worse since it's basically only the front part of the fuselage. The part is tiny, but the detail in it is the same size as any other 1:72 kit.

 

More progress!

In between making a beer run and grocery shopping (I had to forgo the water, tomorrow is good enough for that!) I managed to get quite a bit done today.

 

I had to replan my construction after realising that I had added the foot boards so could not now add the gun mounting across them. Instead I drilled a hole in the floor and trimmed the post for length. I had also forgotten to make the little wooden support for it so the "woodworking" kit came out again. After cutting and sanding it to an acceptable shape and size I painted it CDL. Once that was dry the "leather" wash went on

 

 

Followed not too long after by the clear orange

 

 

All was then attached to the tiny tub!

 

Thoughts then turned to how I was going to attach the control wires for rudder and elevator. I decided the best bet was to CA the lines to a small piece of plastic card so I could glue that inside then push the wires back into the tub once it was closed up to ensure they stayed safe. A piece of tape on the ends SHOULD ensure that I can pull them out again later.....

The lines were duly run across my silver marker, then CAd to little bits of strip, which were painted black, just in case! I made sure the lines were as close together as possible, then they were threaded through the holes and the little black piece was glued inside the rear of the tub. 

 

Another few minutes playing with offcut plastic card gave me the rear lower panel which was painted and attached.

I decided to forgo the internal control cables and the one or two instruments as it's already quite busy in there and I'm not sure I could fit them in! 

 

That left me with this

 

 

 

That'll do for me! So out with the glue!

 

 

She will sit overnight to ensure all is good and set, then out with the filler and sanding sticks!

 

Thanks for looking in folks, and stay safe!

 

Ian

[CedB]

Very nice Ian, that looks superb  

[pheonix]

That is a very detailed cockpit - the more so given the lack of space in there!

 

P

[Ray S]

Lovely work Ian.

 

Going back onto the last page of posts, you mentioned about using solder paint. Can I ask how you used that please? I have tried but not got on with it very well, and quite a lot of what I need to solder is very fine stuff, like what you have been doing (sorry about the mangling of the English language!). I have a single temperature iron which is okay for normal soldering, but IF I can crack using the paint it should hopefully be better.

 

Looking forward to seeing more of this project, Ray

[Joe M]

Hi Ian,

Great build, learning a lot.

Cheers

Joe M

Stick & String Rule O.K.

[Brandy]

8 hours ago, Ray S said:

Lovely work Ian.

 

Going back onto the last page of posts, you mentioned about using solder paint. Can I ask how you used that please? I have tried but not got on with it very well, and quite a lot of what I need to solder is very fine stuff, like what you have been doing (sorry about the mangling of the English language!). I have a single temperature iron which is okay for normal soldering, but IF I can crack using the paint it should hopefully be better.

 

Looking forward to seeing more of this project, Ray

Hi Ray,

I'm by no stretch of the imagination a good, or even competent, solderer, but I use the liquid flux then add a dab of solder paint with a paint brush and heat it with the iron. Mine is also single temp (thanks to the fact that the new one I just bought doesn't work!) and it seems to work fine. A quick fizz and it's stuck. Most of the time.

 

Ian

[pheonix]

I can support what Ian has written: I too put some flux on the part, which incidentally should be scrupulously clean, and then a small dab of paint. Just touch the part ot be joined - the heat should transfer and seal the joint. NB paint is only useful for small joints where little stress will be exerted. For larger stronger joints I have found that application of a little paint also helps the wire solder to run and seal better. Just my TPW.

 

P

[Ray S]

4 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Hi Ray,

I'm by no stretch of the imagination a good, or even competent, solderer, but I use the liquid flux then add a dab of solder paint with a paint brush and heat it with the iron. Mine is also single temp (thanks to the fact that the new one I just bought doesn't work!) and it seems to work fine. A quick fizz and it's stuck. Most of the time.

 

Ian

 

4 minutes ago, pheonix said:

I can support what Ian has written: I too put some flux on the part, which incidentally should be scrupulously clean, and then a small dab of paint. Just touch the part ot be joined - the heat should transfer and seal the joint. NB paint is only useful for small joints where little stress will be exerted. For larger stronger joints I have found that application of a little paint also helps the wire solder to run and seal better. Just my TPW.

 

P

@limeypilot and @pheonix, thank you both for that advice. I will give it a try on some gash brass rod I have. I have some liquid flux  so I will have a go. The normal solder I have had the flux built in.

 

All the best and thanks again both!

 

Keep well, Ray

[Brandy]

Evening all!

Time for today's close of play update.

 

My plans for today were thwarted upon inspection of the nacelle. It hadn't stuck well enough, despite the tabs. So the first job today was to adjust the tape and brush Gators grip into the joints, making sure it went all the way in between the floor and the shell. After that had dried I moved the tape and repeated the process in the areas that were now revealed. I'll leave it now until tomorrow just to be sure it's properly set.

 

That meant I had to find something else to do, so I started on the wings. There were 2 jobs that needed doing (apart from drilling all the holes!) and I was a little wary of the second one....

First though I marked out and removed the ailerons and tidied all those up. That also required filling the moulded aileron lines as they are too thick and in the wrong place anyway, the ailerons are smaller than the kit ones. They were removed by using a micro saw for the ends, then repeated scribing along a metal rule with a no11 blade until I could break them off. That ensured a nice straight, clean, edge

The second job?

Adding the dihedral. I was hoping that I'd be able to bend the wings and they'd hold the new shape, but was not sure about what would happen to the milliput I'd added earlier. I marked each one up and held them against a metal rule to give a good edge, then carefully applied a little pressure. It worked! The wings were all done in a short time, then each was compared both to the plans and more importantly, to each other. A slight difference from the plans won't be noticeable but if they are different from each other that will definitely show! 

 

 

 

That will do! There was one slight crack in the milliput but nothing serious and it will be easily dealt with. That leaves pinning the ailerons, and drilling the strut/rigging holes. That should be fun!

 

What other jobs could be done at this stage?

 

Tail feathers!

 

Cut from .020" sheet as usual, there was just one small difference to my normal procedure. To ensure that the tail is as strong as possible and straight, I left the rudder and both fins attached. I carefully measured and marked up the fins, scribed a line, then cut a slot with a small saw blade. I had to widen it very carefully with a no. 11 blade but it now slips over the stabilizer nicely.

 

 

I simply scribed the rudder joint on and will work with that.The elevators will be separated later. It looks good and I think it will add a bit of rigidity to the assembly.

 

 

 

 

Last job for today was to cut the brass rod for the tail booms. First off I had to figure out the lengths. Normally I'd use the 1:48 plans and scale down but since these are all over the shop and the only ones I'd corrected were the 1:72 ones I had to measure even more carefully than usual! After measuring top and bottom at least 3 times I triangulated to get the true length.

For those not too sure, there are 3 simple steps. I first measured the length along the boom itself on the side view. That gave me the long side of a right angled triangle. Then on the plan view I drew a vertical line from the tail mounting towards the nose (This represents the measurement we just took from the side but is not the right length because of the slope, hence why I measured it along the boom from the side, not just the distance between the front and rear ends of the boom!). The distance between this line and the wing mounting gave me the short edge of the triangle. The diagonal is the boom length! Top one is 57mm and the bottom one 54.5mm.

 

I spent quite a while mulling over what size brass rod to use. I couldn't find any reference to what size they actually were so did it by eye, comparing to photos. I first went for .8mm and cut all 4 before deciding they looked too stubby, so I did it again with .6mm and I'm much happier with the look now. I think .8mm scales out to about 2.25" and .6mm to 1.75" (43mm) which is not out of the realms of possibility. The struts between top and bottom are .5mm.

 

 

So that's where we are tonight. Tomorrow will hopefully see the nacelle cleaned up and shaped correctly, and possibly even the soldering of the tail booms. We'll see how I feel when I get to it...

 

Stay safe, and thanks for looking in!

 

Ian

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by limeypilot

[CedB]

Nice work Ian - great tail (fnaar!)